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Author: Subject: Les Dudek Talks The Brothers

Peach Master





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  posted on 11/19/2014 at 12:53 AM
Brother talk starts at 01:40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXBOi2dEaq4

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/19/2014 at 12:35 PM
Great stuff and thanks for posting, I enjoyed that. Sounds like Les was a bit miffed at Dickey for not getting any co-songwriting credit for Jessica, but then again, I guess it's usually whoever came up with the idea for the song, not who added a bridge to it. I caught Les at a local club, I'm guessing it was 7 or 8 years ago, he was real good.

 

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  posted on 11/19/2014 at 12:52 PM
Duane came up with the turnaround to liz reed and He didn't get a credit for it.

 

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  posted on 11/19/2014 at 05:13 PM
And Chuck has also said in that past (while being diplomatic about it) that he had a big hand in developing Jessica and coming up with parts but isn't credited, either.

 

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  posted on 11/19/2014 at 08:24 PM
I have no idea how and why the ABB distributed song writing credits the way they did? Does anyone really think Gregg told Duane how he wanted the guitar played on Dreams. The whole thing is confusing to me. You could go on and on with their whole catalogue.
 

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  posted on 11/19/2014 at 10:20 PM
Well, he says most of the same things in One Way Out... and was more adamant when we spoke.

One of the most interesting things, which I was surprised no one really picked up on in the book, was Les saying that he originally came to Macon because Dickey was saying the Allman Brothers were probably done and he was looking for people for a new band...

As for the songwriting, the way they did it was ultimately not fait, but it wasn't unusual either... whoever brought the song in wrote it, regardless of who sketchy it was... I mean, no one really debates that Berry wrote the WP intro and what could be more integral to a song?

The doors had all songs by "the doors" but that was not typical.

 

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  posted on 11/20/2014 at 11:01 AM
quote:
The doors had all songs by "the doors" but that was not typical.


The Stones also have just about all their songs Jagger/Richards and Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood have said that they should have gotten credits.

It's a very tangled web that you'd think the dynamic of the band dictates credits and stuff like that.

 

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  posted on 11/20/2014 at 07:38 PM
Very nice, thanks.
 

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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 12:27 AM
Well, I always go back to Dr. Hunter S. Thompson's quote about the music business:

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money
trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and
pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.”

On this matter, having interviewed Les about this, by the way, an interview that you can find on this very site, I think what sticks with Les so much is going with Dickey to Phil Walden's office and discussing the song for inclusion on Brothers & Sisters. Understand that at that time, Phil was Les's agent and obviuosly also in charge of the Brothers endeavors.

As Les has told me, Dickey specifically mentioned to Walden that he wanted Dudek to share songwriting credits. The album came out, and that didn't happen.

Fast forward many years, another well known name from this site, Clay Pelland, had befriended Phil Walden in Phil's declining days before he passed. One night at dinner, knowing what Les had told me, Clay asked Phil if that was true (the conversation with the three of them about the writing credits) and Phil said that indeed it was. Heresay? Sure. Who knows what happened to change things before the release of B&S.

And frankly, I have very little doubt that Chuck Leavell also played a very major part in creating this song. His solo is absolutely timeless and I'm just certain he developed it himself.

In fact, there are studio recordings (not included in the expanded B&S issue) that are of Jessica in the working progress.

Is Les bitter? Well, imagine the royalties he would have made through the years if the writing credit was given. Imagine the royalties for Chuck.

I refer you back to Dr. Thompson.

 

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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 05:42 AM
I would love to see les and dickey do a tour together.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 09:05 AM
Ran into Les a few weeks ago @ a local gig. He was in very good spirits, and more than happy to sit in for a couple of tunes.
He can certainly still play!


 

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Well 30 years of heart and soul,lord we took it further than rock and roll.
We stood together thru thick and thin,yeah we made the best of it all back then.
Then I guess time took it's toll,cut me deep,cut me cold.
Brother against brother....

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 09:25 AM
quote:
Well, I always go back to Dr. Hunter S. Thompson's quote about the music business:

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money
trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and
pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.”

On this matter, having interviewed Les about this, by the way, an interview that you can find on this very site, I think what sticks with Les so much is going with Dickey to Phil Walden's office and discussing the song for inclusion on Brothers & Sisters. Understand that at that time, Phil was Les's agent and obviuosly also in charge of the Brothers endeavors.

As Les has told me, Dickey specifically mentioned to Walden that he wanted Dudek to share songwriting credits. The album came out, and that didn't happen.

Fast forward many years, another well known name from this site, Clay Pelland, had befriended Phil Walden in Phil's declining days before he passed. One night at dinner, knowing what Les had told me, Clay asked Phil if that was true (the conversation with the three of them about the writing credits) and Phil said that indeed it was. Heresay? Sure. Who knows what happened to change things before the release of B&S.

And frankly, I have very little doubt that Chuck Leavell also played a very major part in creating this song. His solo is absolutely timeless and I'm just certain he developed it himself.

In fact, there are studio recordings (not included in the expanded B&S issue) that are of Jessica in the working progress.

Is Les bitter? Well, imagine the royalties he would have made through the years if the writing credit was given. Imagine the royalties for Chuck.

I refer you back to Dr. Thompson.



Dr. Thompson has offered many profound observations on many facets of life.....





[Edited on 11/22/2014 by les_paul_sunburst]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 09:35 AM
quote:
quote:
The doors had all songs by "the doors" but that was not typical.


The Stones also have just about all their songs Jagger/Richards and Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood have said that they should have gotten credits.

It's a very tangled web that you'd think the dynamic of the band dictates credits and stuff like that.



When R.E.M. first started, their legal counsel, Bertis Downs suggested that they set up a publishing company for their songs. As they went through their early catalog, guitarist Peter Buck related that there was a lot of "Well, this was my song at first but you suggested this and then you suggested we change that which really worked and then...." etc. where they realized that as they all wrote, some of their songs were individually written but others were true collaborative efforts.

Finally Peter suggested that they just take shared credit for everything, regardless of who was the primary songwriter.

In my mind, that is always the best way to go as you never have a situation where one member feels slighted over a contribution for a song that he/she did not receive credit for, or where one or two members are making a nice income off the publishing where the other members are not. Human nature being what it is, those types of situations will tend to produce ill feelings and discourse within the band .

I realize that is not always possible but I still think it is the way to go if you can swing it.







[Edited on 11/22/2014 by les_paul_sunburst]

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 09:54 AM
Interesting tale oldcoot and I don't doubt any of it is true. However, ... Dickey came up with the impetus for the tune. Definitely no argument there. While "Jessica" may be Dickey's second most famous song, it isn't the only memorable thing he's written ... by a long shot. I enjoyed your Thompson quote too how appripo. What's sad is then and now folks willing to sell their soul to get a chance to hop in that "plastic trench." Even talented folks like Chuck Levell and Les Dudeck weren't immune from paying dues. Back in 73 things weren't that far removed from standard operating procedures of the original framework where record execs even DJ's names were attached to songwriting credits. Where artists regularly signed away publishing royalties. Did Les and Chuck really receive nothing? Would we have heard "Old Judge Jones" if Les hadn't of did the Macon hang at obviously the right time. Would Chuck be playing at the Holiday Inn instead of working FOR the Stones? There are still a few studio musicians whose job it is to come up with a good part to a song someone else has written for a set fee. The majority of the studio musicians prefer this to say playing a lame written part. Anyway why didn't Les get the chance to join up? Personality? Did he bitch too much about his contribution to "Jessica"? And what was his contribution to the song anyway? As far as I can tell it may have been the less than ten note turnaround that appears only once early in the song. May be I'm wrong, but ... the difference between Chuck and Les is one a great musician thankful for being allowed to come up with his own part in arguably one of the best rock instrumentals of all time. Arguably Chuck's best work ever which has allowed him to go on to work with Eric Clapton and The Rolling Stones among others. And someone whose claim to fame is he was sh*tted on by evidently his own manager (not Dickey). Like that has never happened before. Les Dudek reminds me a little of the joke about the Greek guy lamenting that he isn't known for all the good he has done ... just for that one night with a goat.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 10:18 AM
I wonder what Berry's feeling's today would be for not being credited on Whipping Post ?
I wonder what Duane's feeling's today would be for not being credited on Layla?

 

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Well 30 years of heart and soul,lord we took it further than rock and roll.
We stood together thru thick and thin,yeah we made the best of it all back then.
Then I guess time took it's toll,cut me deep,cut me cold.
Brother against brother....

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 11/22/2014 at 03:58 PM
A thousand percent different then it was in 1970/1971. At the time they could have cared less about money because it was all about the music. Even worse is the fact that their heirs, because of Georgia partnership laws, never shared in the great monetary success of the band.

It's called getting screwed but not getting kissed.

 
 


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