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Author: Subject: The Passion of the Christ

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 2/26/2004 at 04:22 PM
Hey Butch,

I asked you a spiritual question a couple of years ago and you respectfully answered it (and it started a nice long thread!).

I just wanted to know if you or any of the others in the band will go to see the movie. I know that Oteil is a Christian and it would be interesting to see what his thoughts are, too.

Keep on truckin!

sully

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 3/3/2004 at 04:01 PM
My first reaction, after reading about Gibson's rather radical views, were to not go see this film. After further thought I felt that I would be unable to dicuss it if I didn't see it so I saw it Monday night. I would call this a Christian "slasher" film that expresses an extremely radical view of The death of Ye'shua of Nazareth. It begins with the "arrest" of Jesus in Gethsemene (in the film by strong arms from the Sanhedron, in the bible it was by Roman soldiers) and proceeds to produce the most violent and graphic brutality I have ever seen. It ands with a brief glimpse of the resurected Jesus. I feel that this may be the single most horrific contribution to the "artistic" canon our culture has produced. It depicts a story that flies in the face of all scholarly and historical knowledge. It even adds elements that are not in the gospels. Josephus wrote a great deal about Pontious Pilot. He was a bloodthirsty man totally without scruples that Caesar had to call to Rome and reprimand for his brutality. The character portrayed in "The Passion" has no resemblence to the person described in histories of him written by historians with no agendas. The earliest gospels were written no earlier than 60AD after a Jewish rebellion (unrelated to Christianity) that resulted in the complete destruction of the Temple as well as most of Jeruselem. They were writtn with a very srong agenda: survival. The 1st century Christians, after seing first hand the might of Rome were in fear for their lives. The gospels were therefore written to placate, not arouse, the Romans. Ergo we have the Jews crucifying Jesus, not the Romans. This was politic it is not historical. Further even the four gospels do not agree on the events surrounding "The Passion". There is much more that can be said I will just conclude by saying that I think that Mr. Gibson has made a film that he sees as God as man going through the supreme sacrifice to show his love for mankind. I don't think he unsterstands the damage he has caused. His beliefs are still based on a midieval dictrine that has been since rejected by the Catholic Church. Mr. Gibson does not accept the new views of the church and what we see in this film are the result. I fell that we will all go into this film with our beleifs and leave with them unchanged. My concern is that with the level of anti-semitism already extant anyone who sees this film with anti-semitic views will have them reinforced and some will be motivated to act on them. We have had more than enough misery, suffering, brutality and bloodshed in the name of Christ (I would venture to say that no other cause in Western culture can come close) it's time we stopped. Mr. Gibson seems to not agree. I did not like this film in the least. DO NOT TAKE YOUR CHILDREN TO SEE IT!
 

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  posted on 3/3/2004 at 04:32 PM
Interesting. Makes me even more determined to view the film with an open mind.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2004 at 04:34 PM
WOW. thanks for the review Butch!

i think i'm gonna stay away from this movie, it seems too upsetting.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2004 at 04:37 PM
quote:
My concern is that with the level of anti-semitism already extant anyone who sees this film with anti-semitic views will have them reinforced and some will be motivated to act on them.


But those who would act upon them aren't true Christians. The Christian (including Catholic) faith teaches us to love our enemy and to turn the other cheek.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2004 at 04:46 PM
Ronnie, describing them as other than Christian does not negate the actions they may take, it just names them alternately, the damage, however, remains unchanged.

 

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  posted on 3/3/2004 at 05:20 PM
That's true, but my point is that those who would act out violently are not indicitive of most Christian people. I also tend to believe that these people would act out violently regardless of the content of this film. As Butch pointed out, there's already a lot of anti-semitism in the world. I agree with Butch that most people will leave this film with their beliefs unchanged. But I don't agree that it will be a catalyst for further anti-semitism.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 01:46 AM
Well put, Cliff... that's the old 'No True Scotsman' thing. I have no idea where that name came from.

quote:
That's true, but my point is that those who would act out violently are not indicitive of most Christian people.

It doesn't take a lot of people, though. I agree this movie isn't likely to change people's minds, but reinforcing prejudice isn't good either. I have no plans to see it one way or the other.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 07:03 AM
Unfortunately, too many people have forgotten that it is still just a movie. Gibson himself says that it only indicative of his own faith and how he perceives it. Still, there is a a tendency among many when viewing films with 'historical" content to accept such endeavors at face value, even though there was never any intention on the maker of the film for any such result. I believe Gibson's intent was to demonstrate his understanding of Christ's last moments and what we need to understand is that he, or any of us, can only make such an interpretation based on what we have been taught about events that occurred 2000 years ago, events that, as Butch points out, may not have been , and probably were not, reported as accurately as we have been accustomed to seeing here in the 21st century.
Yet, religion is a powerful motivator, and Gibson has produced a powerful film about it; there are bound to be those that take the whole thing too seriously. Remember, one record by the Beatles helped lead one guy to start a very strange and very murderous cult.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 07:22 AM
Dont see it Send Gibson and his crazy father back down under. What a hollywood **** .

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 07:29 AM
Ah, the voice of reason. Thanks for that illuminating and factual input, allmaned.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 09:31 AM
I would like to offer to lead a seminar during the Beacon run on punctuation. allmanned gets free admission.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 09:31 AM
Lot's of people I know are going to see this movie and they're acting like it's some sort of religious statement to go watch a guy get tortured for 2 hours. Some people are even reacting to it like they're watching a video tape of the actual event. It's kind of bizarre.

I do however support Mel in the fact that he has gone against the grain of hollywood. He's put it all out on the line with this one and he was successful. I applaud anyone who goes against the way of the media conglomerates. Wheter it's a band that sells out everywhere they go with no radio play or videos (sound familiar? ) or a movie producer who puts up all his own cash for his film project that he believe's deeply in. I don't have to see it if it doesn't interest me.


 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 11:27 AM
quote:
Still, there is a a tendency among many when viewing films with 'historical" content to accept such endeavors at face value, even though there was never any intention on the maker of the film for any such result.

And this is not the first time Mel's made a 'historical' movie with little relation to history.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 03:58 PM
*And this is not the first time Mel's made a 'historical' movie with little relation to history.*

Lethal Weapon?

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 04:33 PM
I haven't seen the movie, however I think Butch makes an important point, at the time the gospels were written it was done so in a survival mode by the early Christians, God forbid they were caught writing anything remotely subversive about the Roman regime, they would have met the same fate as Jesus. It's interesting to me though in the days leading up to the release of this movie there were more reports on Dateline, 20/20 etc. about "Who killed Jesus?" Was it the Jews or the Romans? At the end of the day, it was Jesus who signed his own death warrant. When asked if he was King of the Jews, he answered affirmitavely. Well guess what? No one was King of the Jews except for Ceasar, and if you claimed to be king, you were going to be crucified. That being said, Jesus was also poking the perverbial bee hive with the Jewish hierarchy. For him to say he was the Messiah and to challenge traditional Jewish law was a crime to them. When I think about some of the stories in the New Testament, it seems to me it was Jews telling Jews how they were supposed to live their lives and Jesus was a Jew with very radical views that challenged traditional Jewish thinking.

In addition, when someone was crucified, it was a horribly gruesome and humiliating death, so I would find it hard to make a film about crucifiction without having it be disgustingly gory. It was a message sent by the Romans to any subversive in the Roman Empire, "if you step out of line, this is what will happen to you."

This reminds me of when Scorsece did the Last Temptation of Christ, remember how pissed the Christian community was? I guess anytime you make a movie about Christ it is going to be controversial.

Along the lines of what Tommars was saying, I find it interesting that the Hollywood community is among the biggest proponents of free speech...as long as it fits in line with what they believe. Mel Gibson could not get this movie made or distrubuted anywhere near Hollywood. This movie is a testament to the saying Bad Press is the Best Press. The people that so vehemently spoke about this film are marketing geniouses and they don't even know it. It's anti-semetic, it's gory, it's not historically accurate, Mel's an anti-semite, his father's an anti-semite (incidentally this guy is in fact whacko jsut from listening to some of his quotes about the genocide), blah blah blah....Hell, we gotta go see what this all about.





 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 06:03 PM
Braveheart, The Patroit... Signs.

quote:
That being said, Jesus was also poking the perverbial bee hive with the Jewish hierarchy. For him to say he was the Messiah and to challenge traditional Jewish law was a crime to them.

The way I've heard some religious Jews explain it, that's not quite right. Jesus called himself "son of god," but that wasn't blasphemy. Even if he had been blaspheming, they could have executed him themselves (by stoning) and the Romans wouldn't have been involved. So if it's true that he was crucified, it would have happened for political reasons (causing trouble) and not religious ones.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 07:27 PM
I believe Messiah is actually translated to "Son of Man", not sure if that's the same meaning as Son of God, but either way, I think its safe to assume he was considered a troublemaker to both parties. As Butch stated earlier though, perhaps the people writing the gospels had a good reason to portray Pilot in a more compassionate light, i.e. he was a ruthless SOB. I think you can see though why there is so much controversy and misunderstanding about what really happened, much of it comes down to language. The Bible has been translated from and into so many different languages. Saying something in Hebrew and then trying to say the same thing in say Aramaic is not going to have the same meaning, although it may have been intended to have the same meaning. I don't know if that made any sense. Basically things gets lost and misinterpreted in translation.
 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 07:55 PM
Actually, Jim, Messiah is derived from the hebrew word "Masheeach" (excuse the phenetic spelling, i just dont have a hebrew keyboard). the root of the word messiah is actually "mashach" or "limshoch" which means to annoint. Messiah's true translatiion is "the annointed" or, the king. Im not exactly sure how this is connected to son of man, but it probably is somehow that i dont know. But from the translation, this really implies king of the jews....

[Edited on 08/04/2069 by cortezthekiller]

 

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  posted on 3/4/2004 at 10:17 PM
So, we have several people, myself included, weighing in with opinions that have yet to see the movie. I guess that's fair, since there are so many of us doing so.

 

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  posted on 3/5/2004 at 02:34 AM
Anybody give any credence to "The Nag Hammadi Library"?
 

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  posted on 3/5/2004 at 06:59 PM
I use the campus library most of the time...

 

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  posted on 6/13/2004 at 10:51 AM
well - i guess this is a bump -
Butch -this is the first time I've seen your comments and think they are right on....there is a good deal of deliberate anti-semitic twisting of facts here for no damned good reason......except to create more sickness......

 

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  posted on 6/16/2004 at 02:13 AM


[Edited on 8/17/2004 by slowhand6]

 

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  posted on 6/19/2004 at 09:25 AM
I still havn't seen this movie. I would like to see it, but decided it would be better to watch it at home when it comes out on DVD. Fewer distractions that way.

 

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