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Author: Subject: A contradiction on death

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 5/4/2014 at 09:14 AM
I've sometimes been amused by listening to the views of the left and the right on when and why administering death is appropriate. I was reminded again this week as the debate over capital punishment came up again following the Oklahoma inmate case.

The right generally support killing convicted criminals in death penalty applicable cases. The left opposes such typically due to faults in our criminal justice system that leads to some innocent men being wrongly convicted.

The left generally supports the killing of unborn babies if the woman/parents decide to do so, sometimes even in late term. The right oppose such and some even oppose abortion when the health of the mother is in question or in situations of rape and incest.

The muddy waters of assisted suicide for terminally ill patients divided many along similar lines. You have the compassionate view of let them die as they wish rather than suffer vs the religious, or perhaps more importantly legal view, of a person taking another's life outside of the normal course of nature.

Personally I support all these types of death. I support capital punishment. I have no problem with abortion and believe that terminally ill individuals should be able to go out at a time of their choosing rather than being slowly and painfully dragged down (and see immunity for medical professionals who assist in delivering this wish).

Do you have a consistent view on handing out death, or do you too sometimes see the contradictions that arise on these issues?

 
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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 5/4/2014 at 10:19 AM
I have no problem with the right to die for terminally ill individuals.

I support a woman's right to choose.

I'm opposed to the death penalty but not for the reasons you mentioned.

I'm opposed to the death penalty because it gives too much power to the State.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 5/4/2014 at 05:39 PM
I have always supported womans health rights
also feel terminally ill should be able to make that choice if compitant
yes to the death penalty as well

just my opinons

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 5/4/2014 at 06:53 PM
There are sometimes contradictions but it usually ends up being one's individual ethics and beliefs. In my belief system, I believe:

Individuals with a terminal illness should be able to make the choice to live or to die via assisted suicide.

As a woman, I believe have the right to choose.

Yes to the death penalty.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 5/5/2014 at 03:06 AM
I'm pro death penalty, choice choice, and pro right to die for the terminally ill.

I don't think these old left and right arguments are as clear as many think they are. The voters in California, which most consider solid left, have expressed over and over that they want the death penalty. I think most of my right wing friends are pro right to die for terminally ill people, regardless of whether or not they are religious. Abortion can also go both ways. I think most of my non-religious right-wing friends are mostly pro-choice, and I do have a couple very catholic left-wing friends that are pro-lifers.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/5/2014 at 11:12 AM
I tend to support the death penalty. Though I dislike abortion, I am thoroughly pro-choice. I oppose assisted suicide because of the slippery slope it would create.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 5/5/2014 at 05:01 PM
quote:
I've sometimes been amused by listening to the views of the left and the right on when and why administering death is appropriate. I was reminded again this week as the debate over capital punishment came up again following the Oklahoma inmate case.

The right generally support killing convicted criminals in death penalty applicable cases. The left opposes such typically due to faults in our criminal justice system that leads to some innocent men being wrongly convicted.

The left generally supports the killing of unborn babies if the woman/parents decide to do so, sometimes even in late term. The right oppose such and some even oppose abortion when the health of the mother is in question or in situations of rape and incest.

The muddy waters of assisted suicide for terminally ill patients divided many along similar lines. You have the compassionate view of let them die as they wish rather than suffer vs the religious, or perhaps more importantly legal view, of a person taking another's life outside of the normal course of nature.

Personally I support all these types of death. I support capital punishment. I have no problem with abortion and believe that terminally ill individuals should be able to go out at a time of their choosing rather than being slowly and painfully dragged down (and see immunity for medical professionals who assist in delivering this wish).

Do you have a consistent view on handing out death, or do you too sometimes see the contradictions that arise on these issues?


Well written post. Thank you so much.

I very much agree with you. Except that I always have to make the disclaimer: "It depends on the situation"... sometimes there are reasons to change our minds.

I am always baffled by how easily people blindly hold on to a concept or an idea, when to me life never seems black & white... so much grey area.

Don't get me wrong, when you believe in something, you should stand up for it. But there is a way to be civilized about it.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/17/2014 at 03:14 PM
quote:
I've sometimes been amused by listening to the views of the left and the right on when and why administering death is appropriate. I was reminded again this week as the debate over capital punishment came up again following the Oklahoma inmate case.

The right generally support killing convicted criminals in death penalty applicable cases. The left opposes such typically due to faults in our criminal justice system that leads to some innocent men being wrongly convicted.

The left generally supports the killing of unborn babies if the woman/parents decide to do so, sometimes even in late term. The right oppose such and some even oppose abortion when the health of the mother is in question or in situations of rape and incest.

The muddy waters of assisted suicide for terminally ill patients divided many along similar lines. You have the compassionate view of let them die as they wish rather than suffer vs the religious, or perhaps more importantly legal view, of a person taking another's life outside of the normal course of nature.

Personally I support all these types of death. I support capital punishment. I have no problem with abortion and believe that terminally ill individuals should be able to go out at a time of their choosing rather than being slowly and painfully dragged down (and see immunity for medical professionals who assist in delivering this wish).

Do you have a consistent view on handing out death, or do you too sometimes see the contradictions that arise on these issues?


I don't think it is really all that complicated.

If someone intentionally kills someone else (other than in a self defense incident), they should be killed.

As for those who argue against terminally ill patients rights to pull their own plug so to speak, bear in mind, each day people make the choice to live or not live. If you choose to live, you eat, drink water, get some sleep. Those who go on hunger strikes in prisons (such as Gitmo) can die from refusing to take in any nourishment.

People want to analyze other people's lives and say, no no no, you don't have the right to go, well it's that person's body therefore it is that person's choice. If we lived in a perfect world, nobody would choose to die, and once there is a global economic collapse, the institution of global martial law as a prelude to the anti-Christ rising and assuming world leadership, I think a lot more people may have a different view than they have right now. Do any of you really want to live under the tyranny of an evil dictator? Yeah I know many would say they already do, their bosses are horrible, their spouses/partners make their lives a living hell, well folks, it will get worse. All the prophecies of all the religions agree on that.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/23/2014 at 10:50 AM
quote:
I don't think it is really all that complicated.

If someone intentionally kills someone else (other than in a self defense incident), they should be killed.


Does this extend to military actions ?

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/23/2014 at 01:53 PM
I'm pro choice not because I'm pro abortion but because as long as people have been screwing women have always sought abortions. I don't condone using abortion as a preferred method of birth control perhaps if we can ever collectively act like adults and teach kids at a young age about birth control it would be more rare. There are a ton of legitimate non birth control reasons for abortion like rape and incest and cases where the baby is severely non functional and will live a hideous quality of life. I rather it be safe and legal then some back alley hack with a coat hanger.

I'm pro death penalty in cases where there is overwhelming evidence such as DNA evidence. There should be an effort to reform or overhaul the death row system since there is a large number of death row inmates with mental illness or lack of mental capacity to function. There needs to be a provision to deal with those types separately. I also think life in prison the rest of your life has to be worse than lethal injection, Oklahoma case notwithstanding.

People should have the right to check out if they are in pain. We do this favor for our dogs and cats so they can die a painless death but won't do the same for humans? WTF?



[Edited on 5/23/2014 by Peachypetewi]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/2/2014 at 10:35 AM
quote:
quote:
I don't think it is really all that complicated.

If someone intentionally kills someone else (other than in a self defense incident), they should be killed.


Does this extend to military actions ?


there's a difference between killing and murder. The 6th commandment says; "Though shall not murder" I'm pretty sure God knew beforehand and still knows that there'd be wars and men would kill. Murder's a different animal. I'm against capital punishment however.

as for abortion, I'm against it as well. It's an abomination.

the right to die...God sets the number of days we live and when we die. Me, and this is quite personal as it's my relationship with God and His Son, I live my life, or at least try to in accordance with His will and plan, and under His mercy, strength and forgiveness. I'll take my days as He sets them before me. (but make no mistake, I have my questions... )

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/2/2014 at 11:17 AM
quote:
there's a difference between killing and murder. The 6th commandment says; "Though shall not murder" I'm pretty sure God knew beforehand and still knows that there'd be wars and men would kill. Murder's a different animal.


Got it. Nice to have it spelled out so clear. I was concerned that Auschwitz, My Lai, Sand Creek, Pol Pot's Cambodian genocide, Kent State, 9-11 and other extremes of military action were not approved by God. Even the Crucifixion was a government sanctioned capital punishment, so therefore legal, and not murder.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2014 at 09:22 AM
quote:
the right to die...God sets the number of days we live and when we die. Me, and this is quite personal as it's my relationship with God and His Son, I live my life, or at least try to in accordance with His will and plan, and under His mercy, strength and forgiveness. I'll take my days as He sets them before me. (but make no mistake, I have my questions... )


Understanding that is your personal view and I am not calling into question any of your beliefs, I'd like to ask; when you say sets the number of days, do you believe that at birth every human (or animal for that matter) has a preset timetable? Or to ask another way, do you believe that every event effecting our lives has some prearrangement and preplanning by a higher power? I've had these discussions with friends and have always had a very hard time getting my arms around the concept that virtually everything that happens to us is due to a grand scheme or a reason start to finish.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/6/2014 at 11:13 AM
kind of kills the notion of free will, don't it? What's the point of doing ANYTHING at all, good or bad, stupid or brilliant, if whatever happens was going to happen anyway without your involvement?

Now, if your participation in the outcome of events does matter at all, and does affect the course of history, we can be confident that every detail of existence, including death, is not pre-arranged and can be changed to some degree by your own actions.

If the universe was a highway, and life was a car, I suppose some of us prefer to be passengers and others sitting behind the wheel. Either way it is a highway, and not much you can do to change the map, but personally I get carsick when someone else is driving.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2014 at 12:18 PM
quote:
quote:
the right to die...God sets the number of days we live and when we die. Me, and this is quite personal as it's my relationship with God and His Son, I live my life, or at least try to in accordance with His will and plan, and under His mercy, strength and forgiveness. I'll take my days as He sets them before me. (but make no mistake, I have my questions... )


Understanding that is your personal view and I am not calling into question any of your beliefs, I'd like to ask; when you say sets the number of days, do you believe that at birth every human (or animal for that matter) has a preset timetable? Or to ask another way, do you believe that every event effecting our lives has some prearrangement and preplanning by a higher power? I've had these discussions with friends and have always had a very hard time getting my arms around the concept that virtually everything that happens to us is due to a grand scheme or a reason start to finish.


yes and yes.

but that's me. I accept Jesus as my Savior, anything after that is mere discussion.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/6/2014 at 01:25 PM

OK so why bother discussing anything? If there is only the same answer to every question then there is no point to thinking at all.

Why would God give us this incredibly powerful and unique reasoning tool known as the brain, and then expect us to toss it in the trash because there was no purpose for it, other than "mere discussion"?

 

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  posted on 6/6/2014 at 03:48 PM
quote:

OK so why bother discussing anything? If there is only the same answer to every question then there is no point to thinking at all.

Why would God give us this incredibly powerful and unique reasoning tool known as the brain, and then expect us to toss it in the trash because there was no purpose for it, other than "mere discussion"?


Same question I have. It just seems like an excuse to not use critical thinking skills when making life decisions and an excuse to not take full responsibility and own and live with those decisions.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/6/2014 at 10:06 PM
I've always believed that the concept of "things happen for a reason" is a coping tool for people. There are many things that happen in life that are hard to understand, usually devasting tragic things, but also wonderful things. People feel the need to explain or have a sense of understanding - and alot of events that touch people's lives just can't be easily or sometimes rationally explained, so enter the "grand scheme" or "happening for a reason" rationale.

I've also thought the idea of heaven and life after death is the same thing, a principle that allows people to deal with death better than they otherwise would have if we all believed that we lived, we died and that was it. Goodbye forever.

I have no idea. I honestly don't know how anyone can with conviction know one way or the other if things do indeed happen for a reason or not, if there is life after death or not. I certainly don't discourage people having faith in religion or a profit or a supreme being and all that comes with it. Sometimes I just wish I had the ability to either believe something is real or not. I'm too much of a skeptic on nearly everything to end up believe in anything.

Back to the topic originally discussed in this thread and on capital punishment, I feel that some people have committed such a horrible crime that they should unquestionably forfeit their life and be made to pay a price for what they've done. A case could be made that life in prison is worse than death. Not me. I think that death is the most harsh penalty that we can impose (other than torture) upon another person and therefore people like Clayton Lockett not only need to be put to death, but I'm fine if that death is painful and unpleasant. In fact to that I say good! We know what he was guilty of and the details surrounding the murder of Stephanie Neiman. The fact that "we" don't subject him to the exact same method in which he inflicted upon his victim is humane enough, lethal injection, or electric chair, or firing squad, or public hanging are far better than the methods he and his accomplishes used. I believe there should be no mercy on a miserable piece of **** like him. On that I have no skepticism at all, not a shred.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2014 at 11:05 AM
quote:
quote:

OK so why bother discussing anything? If there is only the same answer to every question then there is no point to thinking at all.

Why would God give us this incredibly powerful and unique reasoning tool known as the brain, and then expect us to toss it in the trash because there was no purpose for it, other than "mere discussion"?


Same question I have. It just seems like an excuse to not use critical thinking skills when making life decisions and an excuse to not take full responsibility and own and live with those decisions.


" I praise you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to little children. Yes Father, for this was your good pleasure."

Mt. 11:25-26

and dozens of like quotes, that one comes to mind immediately however...

I don't give my faith a lot of thought...and unless it's happened to a believer, it's difficult to discuss how God speaks to our hearts without us having to think anything through. Jesus' disciples weren't great thinkers, Jesus wasn't looking for thinkers, there were enough around at the time. And Paul wasn't the smartest guy around either but his faith was all God wanted from him. This "thinking" thing has nothing whatsoever to do with how God talks to us and the relationship we develop with Christ. To me, it's so simple. I let the thinkers and smart guys have at it.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2014 at 11:21 AM
Something good happens, "It's His will." Something bad happens, "He moves in mysterious ways."

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/10/2014 at 10:35 AM
BHawk!!!

nice to see ya. yeah, well, when football season starts, remember what you just said...


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/14/2014 at 11:43 AM
quote:
quote:
I don't think it is really all that complicated.

If someone intentionally kills someone else (other than in a self defense incident), they should be killed.


Does this extend to military actions ?


Of course not, military actions are war. People fighting in a war are supposed to kill people; even though it is immoral to do so unless you are defending your life, religion, property, family then you can kill any and everyone who threatens that. Like people who come to your country and launch drones on villagers, you can hide on a mountain top, shoot down the drones, or place ied's in the roads to blow up their trucks since they are coming to shoot up your village and the people who live there.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/14/2014 at 12:52 PM
quote:
Of course not, military actions are war. People fighting in a war are supposed to kill people; even though it is immoral to do so unless you are defending your life, religion, property, family then you can kill any and everyone who threatens that. Like people who come to your country and launch drones on villagers, you can hide on a mountain top, shoot down the drones, or place ied's in the roads to blow up their trucks since they are coming to shoot up your village and the people who live there.


OK, I get it. So anyone who goes on the offensive is bad, and anyone on the defensive is good.

 
 


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