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Author: Subject: Are the Toler Brothers Taboo??

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 11:32 AM
This is something that has always puzzled me in regards to the bands' recounting of their history. No one ever even mentions the Tolers' as if they did not exist, and that version of the band never happened.

Why, I wonder?

I just received my copy of One Way Out yesterday, and began to read.

In the section devoted to persons of note, there is no mention of the Tolers. Even the oft maligned Mike Lawler is given mention, but no Tolers.

How come?

Apologies in advance if they are covered later in the book, and I have not gotten to that point yet.

I was just assuming if the book is supposedly the definitive history of the band, endorsed my Butch and Jaimoe, that it really would be definiitive.

For the record, even though that may have been a forgettable piece of the bands' history, I actually liked the Tolers. I saw them years later performing as the Toler Brothers, and while they did draw heavily on ABB material, I thought the presented it well.

I'm just curious why they always seem to be omitted.

By the way, I am enjoying the read thus far. Thanks Alan for all your hard work and effort in getting this published.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 11:50 AM
It's not persons of note - it's people who speak in the book. Berry and Duane are not there either.

I very regretfully did not interview them. I spoke to Dan many times and have no notes or recordings... by the time I was actively compiling the book, he was sadly too ill...

No disrespect intended.



[Edited on 2/26/2014 by AlPaul]

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 12:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification Alan. I meant no disrespect to your work.

It was just something that has always puzzled me, since there rarely ever seems to be any acknowledgement of that era in much that is written by anyone.

My little crew and I will be down at the beacon between March 18th and the 23rd. I hope to possibly have the opportunity to meet and say hello at one of the events in that time frame.

Rock on...

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 12:22 PM
Jeff - no one from the band is that fond of that era for a lot of reasons, not all musical.

The presence of Frankie, for instance, is a reminder of the absence of Jaimoe.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 12:26 PM
My take on it is that it's all about timing. Dan Toler played on 3 ABB albums, Frankie only on one. Other than Enlightened Rogues, which is good but not great, neither of them play on an album that the ABB fan base remember too fondly.

It's not that they are written out of history or that they are taboo, they just came along at a very bad time for the band in an era that just didn't have the songs that the other eras of the band had. The band was fading quickly from 79-82 and unfortunately that is when they were in the band.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 01:01 PM
quote:
Jeff - no one from the band is that fond of that era for a lot of reasons, not all musical.

The presence of Frankie, for instance, is a reminder of the absence of Jaimoe.

Right. Everybody involved seems to agree that it was a fallow period for the band artistically and in every other way, so it's not one they care to revisit. I don't think there's anything else to it.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 01:52 PM
All of this is true, but I agree with the OP that it's a shame that Dan in particular doesn't get more credit. He was a fine guitarist and a really nice guy. Literally gave my wife the hat off his head at a DB and GS show in Tallahassee. I loved to hear him play with Dickey, man. He did a fine job on "Where it All Begins."


 
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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 01:55 PM
F them! "Enlightened Rogues" was a great album IMO. Also my first live ABB show which was great. DDT was a great player and guy. His contribution to the ABB may be minimal in comparison to others, but he carried Gregg in the 80's.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 02:33 PM
Here's a link to this era of the band >> http://youtu.be/N1fh7QamehY

Look how lifeless and uninterested Gregg is during the interview

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 02:34 PM
Alan, I imagine you tried pretty hard to get some info from Clapton - I guess that is just something he's not willing to do?

I know he's quoted a bit early, but am I mistaken in that you were not able to interview him personally for this project?

BTW, got the book Friday night, finished it Sunday. A very enjoyable read.



quote:
It's not persons of note - it's people who speak in the book. Berry and Duane are not there either.




[Edited on 2/26/2014 by AlPaul]

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 03:07 PM
quote:
Here's a link to this era of the band >> http://youtu.be/N1fh7QamehY



I can't believe I've never heard any shouts-out for this!

Not really surprising that it reached #39 on the Billboard Hot 100 in such musically barren times, I suppose. More surprising that it was a Dickey co-composition.




 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 03:31 PM
I did interview Clapton years ago. Those quotes were said to me. I did try to interview Clapton again for this final project.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 04:25 PM
That's what I figured. It certainly appears to me that he's been very hesitant over the years, generally, to speak in-depth about Duane.

'Cause I'd of loved to have heard him do so, and to get his perspective on the Allman Brothers music in general and sitting in in '09 specifically.

Too bad.



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I did interview Clapton years ago. Those quotes were said to me. I did try to interview Clapton again for this final project.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 04:29 PM
God that youtube clip is awful. I'm not sure Gregg is so much disinterested as embarrassed and, er, maybe a little medicated. In fact the whole band look distinctly awkward. Just be grateful the Keytar was not on display. To my knowledge, since the reunion in '89, they have never played a single song from the Arista debacle, which sums up how negatively they must view those days.

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 04:53 PM
I think it was Rolling Stone had a short interview with Clapton and asked about Duane last year and he commented that it was like he found his soulmate and then out of nowhere he was gone.
 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 05:41 PM
I've never ever had a sense that Clapton is hesitant to discuss... he doesn't do many interviews.

I gave him a copy of the pic of him and duane on stage years ago and it was a holy moment for him... very meaningful...

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 06:03 PM
quote:
Here's a link to this era of the band >> http://youtu.be/N1fh7QamehY

Look how lifeless and uninterested Gregg is during the interview


He looked like he does in every interview - like he'd rather be anywhere else. I was excited to note that Marilyn McCoo was glad the band was back together

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 07:18 PM
No doubt, the Arista albums sucked! But I still love the Enlightened Rogues album. You have to remember, the ABB had been completely broken up for about three years by that point, and when news of their being reunited broke, it was fantastic.

And, after the mediocre Win, Lose or Draw album, while I love Chuck Leavell and still like "High Falls" and "Can't Lose What You Never Had," it was AWESOME that the reunited ABB was going back to a two guitar attack once again...and that meant Danny

When I saw the ABB at Legend Valley in 1979 - the band SMOKED!! It was a fired up concert and I loved every minute of it. Soon after, of course, the whole Clive Davis-Arista thing went down.

I never did interview Dan when I had the chance. But I did interview Warren Haynes about him;

quote:
http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-27562-this_mule_still_kicks.ht ml

............If Haynes has anyone on his mind when he takes the stage at the Taft, it will be his recently fallen friend and former Cincinnati musician, guitarist Dangerous Dan Toler. This past February, Toler died from ALS, aka Lou Gehrig’s disease.

One of the most underrated artists in all of Rock music, Toler played with the Allman Brothers Band, Gregg Allman Band, Dickey Betts & Great Southern, The Toler Brothers (with his late brother Frankie) and the Toler Townsend Band.

Toler, a native of Connersville, Ind., spent six years in Cincinnati’s Clifton neighborhood, in the glory hippie days of the late ’60s and early ’70s. He was discovered in Cincinnati by Betts, who brought him into his group Great Southern and then eventually into the legendary Allman Brothers Band when they reformed in 1979 after years of implosion.

“I really didn’t get to know Dan and Frankie until well into the mid-1980s when they were playing with Gregg Allman, and we just became instant friends,” Haynes says. “They were both such warm and ingratiating people and they were great musicians. It was very heartbreaking and a tragic loss, both of those guys, and I miss them a lot.”

“Dan was a monster,” he continues. “He was an amazing guitar player. He was one of those guys that could really go in many different directions. I think that people didn’t realize how versatile he was. He could play Jazz and Jazz Fusion and all of these different genres of music that people don’t associate with him. But he was, technically, an amazing guitar player. He was one of those cats that could shift gears and go anywhere he wanted to go.”

The last time Haynes saw Toler alive was when he flew down to Florida in 2011 to participate in a benefit concert for the stricken axeman.

“It was really heartbreaking because he couldn’t communicate at that point, but he had a huge smile on his face and he was still playing guitar,” Haynes says. “It was tragic. He and I always enjoyed hanging together and we always enjoyed playing together. It was a very healthy rivalry. We would push each other and make each other play stuff that we didn’t know we could play when we were together. I really miss him.”




as for that video above - it sucks. Here is what that version of the band really sounded like;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQmiOkq0Cw8

[Edited on 2/27/2014 by DerekFromCincinnati]

 

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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 07:23 PM
Hey Derek, I think you mean Arista. The Epic albums were the 90s Warren/Dickey albums like Seven Turns and Where It All Begins. Brothers Of The Road and Reach For The Sky were on Arista.

Please God, don't mix up those eras! To quote the late great Harold Ramis, don't cross the streams!

 
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  posted on 2/26/2014 at 07:48 PM
Yep...Arista.....

 

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  posted on 3/2/2014 at 08:26 AM
I always viewed Dan Toler's time in the band as being two distinct periods, the first being the 1979 Enlightened Rogues Album and '79 tour, and the second being the early 1980s Arista pop period. Enlightened Rogues is a good solid album, perhaps a notch below Brothers and Sisters and Eat a Peach, but a huge improvement over the mostly flat Win, Lose or Draw album. On the Enlightened Rogues album , Dan has 2 solos, the first on Pegasus and Blind Love. Pegasus was nominated for a Grammy. Dan also did the nice harmony work with Dickey on the album. I saw 2 shows on the '79 Enlightened Rogues tour and I enoyed both of them. During the live shows the lead breaks were pretty much split between Dickey and Dan. Dan's playing was awsome. Pegasus was the long instrumantal in both shows where Jaimoe, Butch, and Goldfies got a chance to stretch out.

I next saw the band in summer '80 at the Cap Cod Coliseum. They opened with DWYNM/Cross to Bear, and then jumped into "Mystery Woman" with Mike Lawler on synthesizer keytar. The music was now pop oriented and not blusey based, obviously dictated strongly by Arista and not my cup of tea. Pegasus was gone from the set list. I enjoyed the 2 shows from '79 much, much more. I saw them again in '81 at the Boston Garden with the same reaction to the show.

I have followed this band for close to 40 years and in my opinion the Enlightened Rogues album and '79 tour are very under rated, and the Win, Lose or Draw album and the '75/'76 tour are over rated, and lets forget that the 2 1980s albums were ever recorded.
BTW, Mike Lawler is a fine musician. He
plays keys on a few Chet Atkins albums from the 1980s that are very good. I just did not like that style of music in the Allmans.

[Edited on 3/2/2014 by PaulColetti]

 
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  posted on 3/4/2014 at 04:10 PM
quote:
I have followed this band for close to 40 years and in my opinion the Enlightened Rogues album and '79 tour are very under rated, and the Win, Lose or Draw album and the '75/'76 tour are over rated, and lets forget that the 2 1980s albums were ever recorded.




Right on.

 

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  posted on 3/4/2014 at 05:22 PM
quote:
quote:
I have followed this band for close to 40 years and in my opinion the Enlightened Rogues album and '79 tour are very under rated, and the Win, Lose or Draw album and the '75/'76 tour are over rated, and lets forget that the 2 1980s albums were ever recorded.




Right on.



perfectly stated

 

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  posted on 3/4/2014 at 07:46 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I have followed this band for close to 40 years and in my opinion the Enlightened Rogues album and '79 tour are very under rated, and the Win, Lose or Draw album and the '75/'76 tour are over rated, and lets forget that the 2 1980s albums were ever recorded.




Right on.



perfectly stated



Sorry to be out of sync on this but I loved the 75-76 tour...not as good as prior years,but better than anything live I saw in 79 when the loudness of the music seemed an effort to cover up,imo,the least enjoyable era of the ABB.The ER album was potentially excellent,if a different era of the band played it.Not trying to be harsh,but all a matter of taste.

The WLD album had some excellent and fun songs,but the band was in a funk and it came through.Live,some of the songs were delivered quite nicely.The album wasn't overrated...to the best of my recall,and I may be incorrect,the reviews and opinions were not favorable.

 

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  posted on 3/5/2014 at 08:07 AM
Actually songs like leavin, from the madness of the west and Never knew how much I loved you would soung great with the Current band.
 
 


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