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Author: Subject: Kiss

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 03:40 PM
Well, I just listened to Ace Frehley on Eddie Trunk's radio show last night, and he's confirmed that the original 4 members, being himself, Peter, Gene & Paul will not be performing together at the induction in April. Gene & Paul want to perform with the current lineup and the hall of fame is agreeing to let that happen. Ace isn't sure if he's even going to attend since there's not gonna be a performance. If he does go, he says it will be for the fans, that's it. I think The Hall of fame should tell them that either the original 4 perform, or nobody plays at all. If Kiss had been inducted in 1999 when the were elgible, this wouldn't have been an issue, since the original guys were together at that time. So, if anyone was planning on buying a ticket to the induction specifically to see Kiss, this might change your mind. Unless things change, there won't be a performance from the original lineup.
 
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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 03:51 PM
I'm not a KISS fan at all, but this isn't surprising. Gene & Paul probably think if they play with Ace and Peter at the HOF then the version they have now with Singer and Thayer will not have less of a draw on tour going forward. Even if it's the difference in a couple of thousand dollars they will not give the fans what they want.
 

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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 05:23 PM
TOTAL POS Gene is, but I am not suprised

 

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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 05:55 PM
I've actually heard from most it's Paul that holds grudges. Gene is up for anything that makes money, but Paul takes every perceived slight personally.
 

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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 07:01 PM
Dunno. I always saw Paul as just being "along for the ride"

 

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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 07:18 PM
Gene $immons and Paul $tanley are KI$$ as far as they are concerned.

I think they have erased Ace and Peter from the equation a long time ago.

But , playing devil's advocate here, as much as I love the debut, Hotter Than Hell, and Kiss Alive, Gene and Paul were alway consumate professionals while Ace and Peter became drunken buffoons, which certainly hastened their respective exits from the band. And I am a total Ace fan buy hey...facts are facts.

Having said that, the original lineup produced the only music by the band that I am still interested in, still own, and still play.

The debut still kicks like a defiant young juveinile deliquent and I still love it ...

 

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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 08:09 PM
Gene and Paul also wrote the vast majority of the songs.

The guy whogets screwed is Bruce Kulick as he was in the band longer than Ace. Gets screwed when they bring the other two back. Gene and Paul being very smart knew that the Reunion stuff would spark sales plus they got Ace and Peter to sign over rights to the Kitty cat and Spaceman. Pure genius. Then go on an endless farewell tour to really rake it in. I say induct the 4 plus Singer and Kulick and no one plays. Does the world really need another R&R All Night?

 

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  posted on 2/22/2014 at 08:21 PM
Much to Gene and Paul's chagrin, they are all 4 now equals here as far as the HOF is concerned. Ace & Peter ought to turn the tables and announce that they are playing Cold Gin, New York Groove, Hard Luck Woman, and Beth and say that Gene and Paul are welcome to join them on-stage as KI$$, but if they decline then Ace & Peter will just go get another half-ass bass player and rhythm guitarist to round out the lineup. Or Gene & Paul can go ahead and play with their version of Kiss while Ace & Peter play with their version, but if Gene & Paul plan to put Singer and Thayer in their makeup, then Ace & Peter will put their half-ass bass player and rhythm guitarist in the demon and starchild makeup. Just make a mockery of the whole thing. They all say they don't respect the HOF, so why not? At least piss off Gene & Paul in the process.

Sort of like how Sammy and Mike Anthony showed up when they were inducted as members of Van Halen even though they were no longer in the band.

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 01:16 PM
quote:
The guy whogets screwed is Bruce Kulick as he was in the band longer than Ace.


Not exactly true, Bruce was 11 years and some change. While Ace was 15 years total.

quote:
. I say induct the 4 plus Singer and Kulick


Eric Carr and Vincent Cusano are just as deserving if not more (mileage may vary)

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 02:11 PM
Induct them all and have the house band cover the tunes...............

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 02:45 PM
Looks like Gene and Paul are being the little bitches they are and taking their ball and going home.

This was on their FB page.

quote:
ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME STATEMENT FROM KISS

To All Our Fans In Regards To The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame:

Out of respect, Ace and Peter's recent statements demand a quick response to you, our fans.

Our intention was to celebrate the entire history of KISS and give credit to all members including present long time members Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer, and additionally Bruce Kulick and Eric Carr all who have made this band what it is, regardless of the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame's point of view.

Although KISS has moved forward far longer without them, Ace and Peter are at the very foundation of what we have built and this would all be impossible had they not been a part of it in the beginning.

It is over 13 years since the original lineup has played together in make-up and we believe the memory of those times would not be enhanced. Contrary to claims made through the media we have never refused to play with Ace and Peter.

We have spent 40 years dedicated to building KISS without quitting or wavering as the band has moved forward with huge tours and platinum albums through different important lineups for forty years, to this day.

KISS has always been a band unlike any other. That is why we started KISS. That is why we continue KISS. Being unlike other bands also means making choices and decisions unlike other bands.

This is understandably an emotional situation where there is no way to please everyone.

To bring this to a quick end, we have decided not to play in any line-up and we will focus our attention on celebrating our induction into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

We are excited and are looking forward to seeing you all on the KISS 40th Anniversary worldwide tour


[Edited on 2/24/2014 by WharfRat]

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 02:46 PM
Why cant they be like the ABB and learn to let bygo...

Oh wait never mind

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 03:29 PM
quote:
quote:
The guy whogets screwed is Bruce Kulick as he was in the band longer than Ace.


Not exactly true, Bruce was 11 years and some change. While Ace was 15 years total.

quote:
. I say induct the 4 plus Singer and Kulick


Eric Carr and Vincent Cusano are just as deserving if not more (mileage may vary)



Well Bruce's were active years while Ace's included some sit around and he didn't actually play on albums before/after the reunion and samples were used live. But I will give that to you. Ace is terrible as is Peter Criss. Have hung with both, seen them in rehearsals and small clubs. Hard time making it through songs especially Peter.

i think Eric merits entry and Gene and Paul would be in favor of that. Vinnie? I think Vinnie and Tommy should be on the outside but what the hell - let them all in.

Ace and Peter can't dress up as their characters nor use Gene or Paul's. They do not have the rights. They are not very bright guys.

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 06:52 PM
Didnt realize they signed over their rights to the characters.

Complete stupidity on their part.

Had to get that one last payday I guess.


Oh, and I have seen a few clips of Ace from the last few years. Looks like he has finally got his act together. Last album Anomoly (sp?) was pretty solid

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 07:37 PM
I've been a KISS fan since I was a teen in the 80's but I had the KISS cards in the 70's even though I had no idea what they sounded like.

I think the HOF should have inducted all members of the band past and present. All contributed to the overall success of the band and if the HOF is celebrating the band as a whole (not just KISS but any bad that has had multiple lineups) then all those involved should be inducted.

Ace and Peter were there at the beginning, Ace inspired a ton of guitar players and contributed an air of cool to this band of cartoon characters, as well as playing tons of simple but memorable and hummable guitar solos tailor made for air guitar and mirror dancing everywhere. let's keep in mind that Paul begged Ace to stay in the band back in 1982. He knew it then and knows it now that Ace is a fan favorite. Criss gave them some street cred (although after reading his autobiography he seems like a reactionary doofus crybaby) and his drumming was jazz influenced and gave the band the swing factor that made them a Rock & Roll band.

Vinnie Vincent saved their asses on Creatures Of The Night and Lick It Up after that piece of crap Music From The Elder, plus he co-wrote some tunes for their next return to pure hard rock with Revenge. Bruce Kulick stepped in for Mark St. John when he got sick and couldn't perform and did a solid job in the lead guitar spot for years. he got booted for an impromptu reunion and deserves the HOF just for putting up with Paul & Gene for years. I can't say enough good about Eric Carr. How does he not deserve to be included? And Singer and Thayer, even though I oppose them being in makeup, are carrying on the legacy of the band and as such should be included.

Peter sold the rights to the Catman back in the 80's after squandering his money on women and drugs. Ace sold his in the 90's as part of the reunion deal. Neither probably ever imagined KISS would put other players in the makeup. They probably thought they were giving up merchandising money which is still pretty stupid.

Paul & Gene seems to feel they are KISS and today they are, but they forget where they came from and refuse to acknowledge the guys who built the band and put them on the worldwide stage from which they now proclaim their sovereignty.

Gene and Paul are shrewd businessmen and they don't seem to realize they damage their brand by behaving this way.

Isn't the burning question really this: Will Ace and Peter be jamming with Hall & Oates?

 

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  posted on 2/24/2014 at 09:31 PM
I would say that Gene and Paul gave both guys countless chances over the years and even let them back in. And they did the same thing. I think they know and remember where they come from. And they also know the importance of the two other characters which is why they own them.

Session players covered for them for years. Bob Ezrin refused to use them to a large degree and has said the experience was painful.

Gene may be a money hungry guy but at least he is honest. In the war of words over the years, he is bang on and has no reasons to lie.

As I said, both guys are not very smart. They have made countless errors and if they didn't think Gene and Paul would use the makeup then.......they deserve it.

 

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  posted on 2/25/2014 at 08:25 AM
i just wanted to ask if everyone knew ace was never fired from kiss 1 time? he left in the early 80's because he didn't like the direction the band was heading musically and then after the farewell tour in 2000 he left on his own again.
 

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  posted on 2/25/2014 at 08:01 PM
quote:
i just wanted to ask if everyone knew ace was never fired from kiss 1 time? he left in the early 80's because he didn't like the direction the band was heading musically and then after the farewell tour in 2000 he left on his own again.


That's exactly right. I think Ace more than Peter puts asses in seats so they would put up with his antics more. I used to think Gene was exaggerating about Peter but after reading Peter's autobiography I have changed that opinion. I think Gene was dead on about Peter. Ace was just into having a good time but Peter was a whiny, woe-is-me, everybody's out to get me kind of personality. Then "Beth" was a hit and he thought he had more clout than he did and it got worse.

I also think Paul is the one who has been steering the ship since the 80's and has mostly done a good job, and having read his thoughts on the RoF I'm not surprised by KISS's ambivalence. But I still think they should go out and play with Ace & Peter in honor of the juggernaut they founded together. At the heart of it is the RoF deciding to induct only those 4 guys which I think is ridiculous.

However KISS has been fostering the idea that KISS is an entity unto itself and it doesn't matter who is in the band as long as the characters are represented. They have even hinted the band could continue without Gene or Paul. So now the RoF is showing it does matter who is in the band and they don't want to give that credence because it would negate the last 10 years of PR. I actually find the concept of the endless band intriguing and I could see it working for a circus style band like KISS, or GWAR, or Slipknot etc.

 

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  posted on 2/25/2014 at 11:40 PM
quote:
quote:
i just wanted to ask if everyone knew ace was never fired from kiss 1 time? he left in the early 80's because he didn't like the direction the band was heading musically and then after the farewell tour in 2000 he left on his own again.


That's exactly right. I think Ace more than Peter puts asses in seats so they would put up with his antics more. I used to think Gene was exaggerating about Peter but after reading Peter's autobiography I have changed that opinion. I think Gene was dead on about Peter. Ace was just into having a good time but Peter was a whiny, woe-is-me, everybody's out to get me kind of personality. Then "Beth" was a hit and he thought he had more clout than he did and it got worse.

I also think Paul is the one who has been steering the ship since the 80's and has mostly done a good job, and having read his thoughts on the RoF I'm not surprised by KISS's ambivalence. But I still think they should go out and play with Ace & Peter in honor of the juggernaut they founded together. At the heart of it is the RoF deciding to induct only those 4 guys which I think is ridiculous.

However KISS has been fostering the idea that KISS is an entity unto itself and it doesn't matter who is in the band as long as the characters are represented. They have even hinted the band could continue without Gene or Paul. So now the RoF is showing it does matter who is in the band and they don't want to give that credence because it would negate the last 10 years of PR. I actually find the concept of the endless band intriguing and I could see it working for a circus style band like KISS, or GWAR, or Slipknot etc.


yeah maybe there was talk or threats of firing him but ace was never fired from kiss. funny his album Anomaly was better than the 2 recent kiss albums

 

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  posted on 2/27/2014 at 09:20 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The guy whogets screwed is Bruce Kulick as he was in the band longer than Ace.


Not exactly true, Bruce was 11 years and some change. While Ace was 15 years total.

quote:
. I say induct the 4 plus Singer and Kulick


Eric Carr and Vincent Cusano are just as deserving if not more (mileage may vary)



Well Bruce's were active years while Ace's included some sit around and he didn't actually play on albums before/after the reunion and samples were used live. But I will give that to you. Ace is terrible as is Peter Criss. Have hung with both, seen them in rehearsals and small clubs. Hard time making it through songs especially Peter.

i think Eric merits entry and Gene and Paul would be in favor of that. Vinnie? I think Vinnie and Tommy should be on the outside but what the hell - let them all in.

Ace and Peter can't dress up as their characters nor use Gene or Paul's. They do not have the rights. They are not very bright guys.


peter criss seems to get a bad rap. he had a terrible car accident in 1978 that mixed with the injuries, his drinking and drug problem and lack of practicing made his skills as a drummer diminish. from 1970-1977 he was a fine drummer for kiss and a hell of a singer. his problem in kiss was he liked 50's rock and old r&b and jazzy stuff that didn't fit most kiss fans musical interests.

he had some fun stuff in kiss and as a solo artist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTw2oJ6OVNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpINSTG3NfE

my favorite solo song by him. old school style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i41akM5vYqE

[Edited on 2/28/2014 by matt05]

 

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  posted on 2/27/2014 at 09:44 PM
Hell of a singer? He sounds like he sings while gargaling rocks.

One of the worst bands I have seen in a bar was Criss' band and he was the worst part. That is judged comparing them to bar bands. Was sitting with Ace who agreed. Then his band played and were not much better. They were aided by the fact that Criss' band was so bad before them.

 

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  posted on 2/27/2014 at 09:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q_VZ6PX7gc

 

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  posted on 2/27/2014 at 10:06 PM
quote:
Hell of a singer? He sounds like he sings while gargaling rocks.

One of the worst bands I have seen in a bar was Criss' band and he was the worst part. That is judged comparing them to bar bands. Was sitting with Ace who agreed. Then his band played and were not much better. They were aided by the fact that Criss' band was so bad before them.


and what year did you see them? when he was in his mid 50's with arthritis and bursitis?

most kiss fans love to hear peter wail away on the mic with his r&b influenced vocals. great performance by the catman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vhsg1BtO54

 

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  posted on 2/27/2014 at 10:26 PM
quote:
Well, I just listened to Ace Frehley on Eddie Trunk's radio show last night, and he's confirmed that the original 4 members, being himself, Peter, Gene & Paul will not be performing together at the induction in April.


Almost as disappointing as hearing that Manny, Moe & Jack would not be present at the annual APC (Auto Parts Convention) in Ferndale MI.

 

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  posted on 2/27/2014 at 11:29 PM
Have seen and worked Kiss at least 30+ times starting from the early 70s on. Luckily I have never had to pay. Have seen all solo except for Gene on multiple occasions also. Have seen rehearsals and jams so I have a pretty damn good idea of what they are capable of.

You make Criss out as a vital part which he is not. Twice his departure has had no effect on popularity. He sings one or two songs that anyone gives a **** about and others like Hooligan were filler and no one leaves a show pissed that it wasn't played. He is sloppy and by far the weakest drummer they have ever had. Regardless of what era.

You like him so enjoy but trying to paint him as a real talented guy is comical.

 

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