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Author: Subject: WARREN HAYNES AND DEREK TRUCKS TO DEPART ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 05:10 PM
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The "Clapton is overrated" footnote? How about you playin' us some of your stuff?


He is greatly overrated. He got on the wagon at the right time. The only reason he draws today is because he's still alive, when so many of his generation of players are not. The majority of his commercial hits are thanks to other songwriters, or other players. Just rattle off the first several songs that come to mind. He is a one-dimensional player that is not comfortable in a free-improv environment. Case in point: his guest spot with the ABB a few years ago. He sat in over the course of two nights, if I remember correctly, and they played the exact same songs each night (the ones they all fully rehearsed). Anyways..




No, you don't remember correctly. I was there both nights and it wasn't the same. Similar, but not the same. And who cares if it had been. It was awesome. Clapton was very low key and respectful. Classy guy.


Not only that, but being an improvisantional musician doesn't mean that it's as easy as calling out the name of a random song and playing it at a top level. People at the Beacon are paying $100+ for a ticket, and expect the highest level of musicianship. Not to mention that the Clapton appearances for that run were very highly anticipated. At that point, it is incumbent upon even the world's best improvisational musicians to play songs that they've rehearsed. It is perhaps counter-intuitive, but rehearsal becomes all the more critical in an improvisational band -- nevermind one with 8 band members, and three guitarists. An unrehearsed song can easily turn into a trainwreck with people stepping all over each other.

The idea that any guitarist, having never before played with the ABB, could have shown up and played a bunch of different unrehearsed songs, and done so at the level that was expected, is asking a bit much.

I'm sure Clapton can show up at your house, plug in, and smoke any rendition of any ABB song within a few takes. That doesn't mean that the performance would be up to his own personal standard, nor up to the standard of output expected at a Beacon performance. Clapton -- or anyone -- should be not expected to step into a full-band, professional concert setting and just start joining in on random tunes. That's not really what it means to be an improvisational musician.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 07:03 PM
listen to live Cream shows from the late 60s or the D&D live set from the Fillmore
then decide if Clapton is an improvisational musician

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 07:50 PM
I apologize for reacting a little strongly to the Debojenkin's post. At the same time, the original topic of this thread has just been beaten to death!

Two things regarding Clapton:

1. He is (arguably) THE BRIDGE between the original bluesmen and what evolved to become "hard rock" and later, "jam band" music. BB King might have "popularized" the blues, but Eric Clapton brought it to a whole new generation of listeners who may not have even suspected they were having it laid upon them.

2. I hate playing the race card, but Clapton (besides maybe Chet Atkins) is the most influential white guitarist in the world - ever - period.

As with everybody in this world, Clapton's skills will (may have?) diminish(ed) over time. But his contributions to the world of music will last forever.

 

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Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 08:03 PM
quote:
I apologize for reacting a little strongly to the Debojenkin's post. At the same time, the original topic of this thread has just been beaten to death!


If only everyone here had your class and ability to say things like this, it would be a much better place. Spoken like a true gentleman.

quote:
He is (arguably) THE BRIDGE between the original bluesmen and what evolved to become "hard rock" and later, "jam band" music. BB King might have "popularized" the blues, but Eric Clapton brought it to a whole new generation of listeners who may not have even suspected they were having it laid upon them.


I love Clapton and think he deserves his status. The famous live Crossroads recording by Cream still blows me away and I cant' listen to it enough. That second solo in mind blowing. However, I was under the impression that it was Duane and the Allman Brothers that influenced Clapton to become more of the jamband type artist. The stuff I know by Cream, before Layla, seems to be more psychadelic British blues rock. Then when he heard Duane and collaborated with him on Layla, he adopted the ABB sound with Derek and the Dominos. I'm not a Clapton expert so I could be mislead.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 08:41 PM
Boyton, the use of the term "jamband"may very well have been a leap on my part. That whole sub-sub-sub genre takes a strong dose of Miles Davis/John Coltrane. Yet the whole "jamband" movement is still guitar driven (for the most part). I consider all of this to be a stepping stones process - an evolution.

Clapton was most certainly a strong influence on Duane Allman. I've even had the discussion/argument with others that Clapton was among many who had an influence on Jimi Hendrix, as he was playing loud and with feedback (as were several British guys) before Jimi caught on.

It is all subjective to some degree. A fun conversation/debate if we can keep it civil.

FYI - I disdain the term "jam band" as much as I frown upon the term, "southern rock".

 

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People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 08:52 PM
Rusty....you are a real mensch! a pleasure to know you here and hoping to meet you in nyc in March...
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 08:53 PM
Agreed Rusty. As Gregg says, "we're not a jam band. We're a band that jams."
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 09:57 PM
Well, it's southern rock if it's made on the southside of whatever place
You make in...right?..lol

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/13/2014 at 10:35 PM
To rate Clapton, they key is to look at how great guitarists rate him. Look at the great players who leap or have leapt at the chance to play with him, from the obvious ones like Duane Allman and Derek Trucks to the members of Cream or Blind Faith to the astonishing line-ups at Crossroads.

His influence has shaped rock guitar as well. He influenced Ritchie Blackmore, Tony Iommi, Mick Taylor, Slash, Eddie Van Halen, the list goes on.

I myself am not the biggest fan of EC, but I sure do respect him. Oddly, while he is not in the Top 10 of guitarists I listen to the most, I do consider the 1994 MSG show of his that I saw to be the best concert I have ever seen / heard.

I do think of Cream as a proto- jam-band...I think the line between "psychedelic" and "jam" is pretty thin. The live "Spoonful" sounds a -mighty jammy to me.

 

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  posted on 1/14/2014 at 08:46 AM
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I love Clapton and think he deserves his status. The famous live Crossroads recording by Cream still blows me away and I cant' listen to it enough. That second solo in mind blowing. However, I was under the impression that it was Duane and the Allman Brothers that influenced Clapton to become more of the jamband type artist. The stuff I know by Cream, before Layla, seems to be more psychadelic British blues rock. Then when he heard Duane and collaborated with him on Layla, he adopted the ABB sound with Derek and the Dominos. I'm not a Clapton expert so I could be mislead.



Now I remember, you were the one who started the Clapton bugs me thread about him not giving the Allmans their due for the impact THEY had on his career.

And no, he didn't "adopt" the ABB sound to D&D's, aside from Duane playing on most of the album, go listen to the live stuff, jams and unreleased second album.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2014 at 10:45 AM
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I love Clapton and think he deserves his status. The famous live Crossroads recording by Cream still blows me away and I cant' listen to it enough. That second solo in mind blowing. However, I was under the impression that it was Duane and the Allman Brothers that influenced Clapton to become more of the jamband type artist. The stuff I know by Cream, before Layla, seems to be more psychadelic British blues rock. Then when he heard Duane and collaborated with him on Layla, he adopted the ABB sound with Derek and the Dominos. I'm not a Clapton expert so I could be mislead.



Now I remember, you were the one who started the Clapton bugs me thread about him not giving the Allmans their due for the impact THEY had on his career.

And no, he didn't "adopt" the ABB sound to D&D's, aside from Duane playing on most of the album, go listen to the live stuff, jams and unreleased second album.



I mean, if the old story is right, Clapton didn't even really know who ABB were. He's in Florida to record the Layla record and Tom Dowd says he wants to take him to see Duane Allman, and Clapton's like, "ah, the guy who played on Hey Jude!" Doesn't sound to me like a guy who was influenced by ABB.

I lot of folks around these parts like to speculate on how much Eric's playing was influenced by playing with Duane in those sessions. I just don't see much adoption of any Duane. I'm sure you can't help but get some stuff through osmosis, and I'm sure that works vice versa. But, it's not like a light bulb turned on in Eric's head like "damn, Duane showed me all this that I'd been missing throughout the years." Again, I just don't hear it.

[Edited on 1/14/2014 by cmgst34]

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/14/2014 at 12:02 PM
quote:
I apologize for reacting a little strongly to the Debojenkin's post. At the same time, the original topic of this thread has just been beaten to death!

Two things regarding Clapton:

1. He is (arguably) THE BRIDGE between the original bluesmen and what evolved to become "hard rock" and later, "jam band" music. BB King might have "popularized" the blues, but Eric Clapton brought it to a whole new generation of listeners who may not have even suspected they were having it laid upon them.

2. I hate playing the race card, but Clapton (besides maybe Chet Atkins) is the most influential white guitarist in the world - ever - period.

As with everybody in this world, Clapton's skills will (may have?) diminish(ed) over time. But his contributions to the world of music will last forever.


I think Jeff Beck is. He influenced legions with his Yardbirds stuff, including Hendrix and our lost ABB hero, Duane.
His Truth album is credited as one of the first albums to spawn heavy metal. His work on Blow By Blow and Wired inspired many guitarists to give jazz a shot, to reconsider their lead lines into something new...which Beck did because of influence from Jan Hammer, iirc.

I think there's a case for both, and of course Jimmy Page also has his own legion.

But, out of the three of them, Jeff Beck is still as good as he's always been...you can't say that for most of his rock peers.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/14/2014 at 12:03 PM
And Jeff Beck's not overrated, either!

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 12:01 AM
I prefer Beck to Clapton, but I will give history the nod:

Jeff Beck made his big commerical debut....filling Clapton's shoes in the Yardbirds, playing songs Eric had done with that band. Yes, Jeck took them in new directions, but he was in EC's footsteps.

After that, The Jeff Beck Group exploded big, playing very heavy futuristic psychedelic blues.....just like Cream had done before them. The end of Cream made room for the Jeff Beck Group and Zeppelin and Sabbath.

Those Cream albums really provide a blueprint for the heavy stuff that followed; they did it first.

After Cream's demise, the death of Hendrix and the dissolving of the Beck group made room for Zepp and Sabbath and Purple to rule.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 01:05 AM
You can't talk about "the most iinfluential white guitarist in the world" without talking about Eddie Van Valen.

I am no fan of Van Halen, but I don't think any guitarist is more imitated.

Jimmy Page deserves consideration too. I know many here despise Zeppelin, but if the category is "most influential" Page deserves a seat at the table.

 
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True Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 08:23 AM
I'm now very sorry I played the "race card"!

Eddie Van Halen? Yeah, I guess so - to a particular generation, maybe. He's definitely been copied, but that whole finger-tapping thing was done by Zappa when Eddie was just a smile on his mama's face!

It's all good - it's all opinion! My original idea of Clapton being an influential white player was to demonstrate that he turned a whole bunch of white kids onto the blues. The bridge, so to speak.

My Main point was that Clapton is not and was not over-rated.

Like I also said - great discussion if we keep it civil!

 

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Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 09:29 AM
There are so many great guitarists out there..it is staggering...
For my money, it still remains a piece of wood with metal strings that gives any and all that play it a chance to speak with a unique voice...all the mentioned players were trailblazers IMO ...

We could fill this site with others.
Hendrix
Landreth
Buchanan
Gatton
Fahey
King( any of the three)
All good!!!!!

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 09:47 AM
quote:
I'm now very sorry I played the "race card"!

Eddie Van Halen? Yeah, I guess so - to a particular generation, maybe. He's definitely been copied, but that whole finger-tapping thing was done by Zappa when Eddie was just a smile on his mama's face!

It's all good - it's all opinion! My original idea of Clapton being an influential white player was to demonstrate that he turned a whole bunch of white kids onto the blues. The bridge, so to speak.

My Main point was that Clapton is not and was not over-rated.

Like I also said - great discussion if we keep it civil!


agreed.

I would also argue that Clapton was the 1st well known virtuoso guitar player.
Yes, plenty of others played great solos before him or about the same time, but Clapton was the 1st one that was noticed "by the masses", ie "Clapton is god"

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 10:23 AM
Rusty, keep it civil? What fun is that?

I've always been fascinated at how race has been such a huge part of the Allman Brothers story. I think the originals should be commended for being pioneers in helping bridge the gap between blacks and whites. It seems as though they always rose above the racism in the south back in the day, which took not only an evolved understanding of life, but also took an incredible amount of courage considering the potential scrutiny and danger of "fraternizing" with black people. If I ever had a chance to interview Gregg, I would ask him what types of backlash he got from society when he used to frequent black blues clubs, befriend black artists, and have Jaimoe in the band, and how he navigated through it. Fascinating story if you ask me. Just yet another reason why the ABB is the greatest band in the world.

 

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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 10:34 AM
And the thread takes yet another unexpected turn!

Yes, I think one of the more fascinating aspects of the Allman Brother's Band has been their diversity in makeup- especially the current line-up. Here we have black and white, young and ... not as young as they used to be, and hispanic - all under one roof!

Historically, they even got arrested in a time where separate jails were required! They were like, the Jackie Robinson of rock and roll bands!

If you really want to read about someone who dealt with racial injustice check up on Eddie Hinton. He played with a couple of black guys in his band - in the deep south, no less at a time when it was just not done. His story includes tales of not only not being paid, but having his van shot (not at - SHOT) by folks who weren't ready to accept such a thing.

I'm all for the Gregg movie, but I'd said before that if Hollywood has but one more bio-pic left, Eddie Hinton's story would be a good one. It'll never happen - he just wasn't a house hold name. But his story is really something!

 

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Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 02:38 PM
We can credit my a.d.d. for going off topic, my bad. Rusty, Hinton's story sounds like it could make an excellent movie. Even though he isn't a household name, Hollywood still could make it. Maybe not the blockbuster studios but there are smaller independent and art house studios that love these stories, and it would take someone like yourself to make the story compelling, and hopefully make him a household name. Have you ever wanted to write a script? If so I think you got your plot.
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 04:04 PM
Its been a great run for 45 years...its better if it ends this way. Top of their game. Top of the world Ma!....Then blow it up. To quote Peter Green,"Oh Well".

[Edited on 1/15/2014 by bluedrummer]

 

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  posted on 1/15/2014 at 07:31 PM
quote:
Its been a great run for 45 years...its better if it ends this way. Top of their game. Top of the world Ma!....Then blow it up. To quote Peter Green,"Oh Well".

[Edited on 1/15/2014 by bluedrummer]


If Peter Green was still on top of his game...could be an interesting scenario.

I think he is more comfortable these days in a bath robe,pj's, and cozy slippers .

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 1/16/2014 at 05:49 PM
I'm not surprised. They're getting older and do less and less shows each year. It's gotten to the point where my friends and I go see the band when they come to our area but we don't get Beacon tickets anymore since they're very expensive, and now are very difficult to get since they sell out instantly. The setlists are often repeats will include covers of other bands' songs. I happen to like the musical guests at concerts; but older fans I've talked to at shows or after shows don't at all.

I am grateful that I got to see the band 20+ times, go to the Beacon a few times, and saw Derek, Dickey Betts and Great Southern on a night DB was in top form and not too drunk or coked up, and Gregg solo a few times. I'm glad I saw them at Penn State in the same building my friend and I graduated in. I'm also glad I got to take my mother to see the Allman Brothers band when Dickey was still around.

I'd love to see Dickey Betts and Chuck Levall, or Chuck and Jack Pearson rejoin the band but I don't see any of that happening. If this is the end, thanks for the music and good times.

 

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