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Author: Subject: this is one reason why band members hate each other

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 10:29 AM
les paul sunburst posted in another thread that "humans can be really stupid (and stubborn) sometimes". very true. then again sometimes they're just a-holes. like sting. here's a great example why musicians can't get along.

Imagine Making $2000 A Day From Something You Did 30 Years Ago… That's What Sting Did

Random Celebrity Article By Brian Warner on January 2, 2014

It's probably safe to bet that the average person reading this article earns a living by working a job that requires 8-10 hours of effort a day, five days a week, all year round. You might love your job. You may hate your job. You might not care about your job at all. Either way, it's probably another safe bet that your money comes in the form of a paycheck twice a month that somehow always feels too small. There's nothing wrong with this system, but imagine an alternate world where a ton of money magically appears in your bank account every day before you even get out of bed. Sounds amazing right? Well it gets better. Imagine not only did you earn this fortune in the last year, you've earned it every year for the last 30 years and will likely earn the same amount or more for the next several decades. If you want this dream scenario to be reality, there's a simple way to make it happen: All you gotta do is compose one of the most lucratively sampled pop songs in history. This is exactly what Sting did with the hit 1983 song "Every Breath You Take".

Sting's classic ballad about an unhealthy obsession with a lost love, was one of the biggest hits of 1983. The song spent eight weeks at #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 and has been played on the radio tens of millions of times. In 2008 Billboard ranked "Every Breath You Take" at #25 on their list of the top 100 songs of all time. But the recording process wasn't exactly a fun experience. During recording sessions at a studio on the island of Montserrat, the band members were literally at each other's throats. Arguments and physical fights were commonplace.

Songwriting for "Every Breath You Take" is credited 100% to Sting (credit by his birth name, Gordon Sumner). Sting took all the credit despite the fact that both fellow Police members Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers contributed to the song (drums and guitar riff, respectively). Andy Summers came up with the song's guitar riff after a particularly bitter argument with Sting. Sting eventually conceded and told Andy "go and make it your own". When Andy came back with an early formation of the now-famous guitar lick, the band knew they had a hit on their hands. Unfortunately, Andy Summers never pushed for his share of the song's credit.

As the song's sole composer, Sting earns the vast majority of royalties when the song is played on the radio, sampled or included in something like a commercial or a movie. This fact alone should have been enough to make Andy Summers and Stewart Copeland furious in the early to mid 80s. But at some point they probably stopped losing sleep over their loss. Then came Puff Daddy.

In 1997, "Every Breath You Take" received a huge re-boot in popularity when Puff Daddy released his cover tribute to the late rapper Notorious BIG. Puff Daddy's version, "I'll Be Missing You", would go on to win a Grammy and be certified as one of the bestselling singles of all time with more 7 million copies sold worldwide.

Unfortunately for Diddy, no one from Bad Boy Records (Diddy's label) thought to secure Sting's permission to sample the 1983 pop song for the updated 1997 remix. Had Diddy asked permission first, he likely would have been required to hand over 25% of I'll Be Missing You's publishing royalties to Sting. By forgetting to ask permission before the song was released, Sting was able to demand and receive 100% of the remix's publishing royalties.

Here's where it gets really interesting: Think about Puff Daddy's version of the song. Do you hear Sting's voice at all? Nope. Do you hear Steward Copeland's drums? Nope. The only part of the original Police song that Diddy actually sampled turned out to be Andy Summer's guitar riff. And as crazy as it sounds, because Sting is listed as the sole composer, Andy Summers does not receive a dime in royalties from Diddy's smash hit version. In fact, Summers was not even aware of the song's existence until his son heard it on the radio and thought it was The Police. In an interview with The A.V. club, Summers explained how he found out about "I'll Be Missing You":

"It was actually my kid, who was 10 at the time, said, 'Hey dad, there's some girl on the radio who's playing you guys!' I went into his room and listened to his radio, and I was like, This is me, what the **** is this?"

Andy went on to describe Puff Daddy's song as "the major rip-off of all time". "He actually sampled my guitar… that's what he based his whole track on. Stewart's not on it. Sting's not on it. I'd be walking round Tower Records, and the **** ing thing would be playing over and over. It was very bizarre while it lasted."

Even after 16 years, Andy Summers is still understandably bitter about what happened with "Every Breath You Take". I'd be bitter too if I knew how much Sting was earning off the song still. In 2010, Sting's former business manager claimed that "Every Breath You Take" is responsible for more than 1/4 of all the singer's lifetime publishing income, somewhere in the range of $20-$40 million. On top of that, the song produces an average of $2000 in royalty income for Sting every day ($730,000 per year).

Under British copyright law, Sting, or his heirs, will earn royalties from the song until the year 2053 (70 years from the moment of copyright). Sting will be 102 years old in 2053. Also it should be noted that royalties don't actually magically appear in your bank account every day as we alluded in the first paragraph. Most artists receive their royalty income in the form of quarterly direct deposits, administered by a non-profit performance rights organization like The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP).

In an April 2000 interview that featured all three Police members, "Every Breath You Take" was discussed and it was clear that emotions were still unresolved:

Summers: At that point we were in a really gnarly state as a trio. We had sort of reached the end of our rope.

Copeland: Our golden goose was cooked. We were at each other's throats.

Summers: We spent about six weeks recording just the snare drums and the bass. It was a simple, classic chord sequence, but we couldn't agree how to do it. I'd been making an album with Robert Fripp, and I was kind of experimenting with playing Bartok violin duets and had worked up a new riff. When Sting said 'go and make it your own', I went and stuck that lick on it, and immediately we knew we had something special.

Copeland: Yeah, Sting said make it your own – just keep your hands off my f***in' royalties. Andy, since we're here, I'm going to back you up on this. You should stand up right now and say, 'I, Andy, want all the Puff Daddy money. Because that's not Sting's song he's using, that's my guitar riff.' Okay over to you Andy, Go for it…

Summers: [meekly] Ok, I want all of the Puff Daddy Money.

Sting: Okay Andy here's all the money [pours some change on the table]. Unfortunately, I've spent the rest of it.

Copeland: So Sting's making out like a bank robber here, while Andy and I have gone unrewarded and unloved for our efforts and contributions.

Sting: Life… is… **** ing… tough. Here I am in Tuscany…

Copeland: And don't we know it! You're in Tuscany in your palace with wine being poured down your throat and grapes being peeled for you. Sting can you buy me a castle in Italy too? With the proceeds from the longest running hit single in the history of radio? Just a little chateau somewhere?

Sting: We don't have **** ing chateaus in Italy, They're called palazzos. I'll lend you a room.


http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/fun-fact-s ting-makes-2000-royalties-every-day-every-breath-take/

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 10:49 AM
Sounds like Sting has a case of Robbie Robertson Syndrome.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 11:09 AM
Just another day in the music business… "Magic! Magic! Maaaagic!"

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 11:10 AM
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

(falsely attributed to HST, a spin on his quote about TV journalism)

Betts mentioned this in the current Esquire interview. Not the Sting thing, the reality that writers make a lot more money and within the band that can lead to jealousy.

I guess the answer is to get a song on the record?

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 11:14 AM
I think that "song writers" should include the guys who lay down the rhythms and melodies to their lyrics. Basically, you have the guy who does the paint job getting top billing over the mechanics who build the machinery underneath. A lyric without music is basically a poem. All of this - merely my opinion.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 11:17 AM
I am not a fan of the band REM, but they realized very early on that competition over songwriting credit led to fights and jealousy and songs being forced onto albums, and they agreed that every song would be credited to the group. I am sure that at least one of them gave up some potential cash in doing that. I really respect them.
 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 11:31 AM
I have written a few songs that have been performed in public, and I've filed a few copyrights at LOC.

None have made me any money.

I do believe in intellectual property and if someone creates something they deserve to profit from that.

This is shockingly coming under attack, mostly from the computer and digital industries. Funny, those folks in Cali in the computer and internet based industries don't want to give up any of their profits culled form others' intellectual property.

In this vein, an arrangement is not the same as writing a song, not matter what BT says.

Creating a drum part or bass line to a composition is arranging, not composing.




 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 12:14 PM
The Brothers seemed to have the right idea with Hot Lanta, which was credited as a group composition.

I supposed that this was only because it was an instrumental and, if Gregg had scribbled a few lines like Dreams, WP etc, it would have become a GA composition.

But then Dickey got sole credit for IMOER.

Interesting how credits got allocated in those days! In hindsight, it may have been done a little differently!



 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 12:27 PM
There's a great video on Youtube somewhere (I'll try to find it soon), that plays a medley of about 30 famous pop songs, all sung by an unknown signer, over the same chord progression and beat. The point of the video is to show that these 30 famous hits are basically the same song, just performed in different styles, sounds, and lyrics. It's the basic structure of E, Bm, A, then B. I swore to myself I'd write an original tune to this progression and try to make it a hit somehow. Easier said than, done.
 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 12:30 PM
quote:
I have written a few songs that have been performed in public, and I've filed a few copyrights at LOC.

None have made me any money.

I do believe in intellectual property and if someone creates something they deserve to profit from that.

This is shockingly coming under attack, mostly from the computer and digital industries. Funny, those folks in Cali in the computer and internet based industries don't want to give up any of their profits culled form others' intellectual property.

In this vein, an arrangement is not the same as writing a song, not matter what BT says.

Creating a drum part or bass line to a composition is arranging, not composing.






+1...as someone who has written a few tunes.....The concept comes from one person. The words, chords and basics are created by the song writer. The rest is the physical application of recording it.

Would anyone had a guitar part to put done on a recording if the concept wasn't first there for a guitar part to be laid down.

If guitar parts were the song then Tommy Tedesco would have the most song writing credits...when in fact he probably has none for all the work he did in the 60's and 70's in the studio.

There are some serious misconceptions by fans about bands and the music business. There probably isn't a single band that ever made it by democracy. It doesn't work in a band situation. Why because you'll get bogged down trying to meet everyone's way of thinking. Most bands that make it have a single leader who may consult the others in the band but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts there always needs to be one person who will make the hard decision. Duane was a leader of this band. I'm sure he asked for other input but when it got ugly I'm sure he said "This is going to be the way it is"

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 12:44 PM
I know the Doors and Widespread Panic have taken the democratic route with sharing in songwriting. Any other bands out there?
 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 12:45 PM
Sometimes the arrangement makes the song.
 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:09 PM
quote:
I know the Doors and Widespread Panic have taken the democratic route with sharing in songwriting. Any other bands out there?


Could be they sit down and write all their tunes as a team and no one person presents a tune....BTW....WSP tunes are poor at best....vehicles for extended jams....IMO

quote:
Sometimes the arrangement makes the song.


Most song writers already have an arrangement when the song is presented. The rest is the application of recording it. Plus there is no arrangement without the original concept. It's putting the cart before the horse

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:10 PM
quote:
Sometimes the arrangement makes the song.


I was going to ask if the arrangement wasn't part of the overall song.

COMPOSING - as I understand it, involves a writer (a "composer") writing out each part that is played in the song or piece of music. In this case, the composer has written (scored) each instruments part. Like with Frank Zappa (for the most part) - each player plays as he/she is told.

In a more free-form style (jazz, blues and rock and roll) each player may or might contribute his/her own licks or riffs to the final product. In these cases (and in Andy's case with the Police song) - do these players not contribute to what amounts to being the song itself?

Great topic for discussion! Obviously, some of y'all are more qualified to speak than I am.

 

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People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:12 PM
Andy and Stewart don't have to wear that dress tonight.
Unless Sting tells them to.
I would get my name on everything.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:26 PM
I do not even consider the guitar part in the song as a distinctive riff. In fact I think it kind of mirrors the bass line. In any case its not distinctive enough for me for it to stand out as a composition. I compare this to a Whiter shade of pale. The keyboard player sued and was paid royalties because his keyboard lines were considered a composition and a critical portion of the song. I don't believe that's the case in this song.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:35 PM
quote:
I do not even consider the guitar part in the song as a distinctive riff. In fact I think it kind of mirrors the bass line.


Isn't it the other way around, as usual?

I agree that it is hardly that distinctive - it just defines the song's chord progression.

I would argue someone who comes up with the middle eight has greater claims to co-writing credits.

quote:
Think about Puff Daddy's version of the song. Do you hear Sting's voice at all? Nope. Do you hear Steward Copeland's drums? Nope. The only part of the original Police song that Diddy actually sampled turned out to be Andy Summer's guitar riff.


Having listened to Mr Daddy's song, this is clearly nonsense: there is much more borrowed - if not sampled - than just Sumner's guitar.




[Edited on 1/4/2014 by Shavian]

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:37 PM
quote:
I have written a few songs that have been performed in public, and I've filed a few copyrights at LOC.

None have made me any money.

I do believe in intellectual property and if someone creates something they deserve to profit from that.

This is shockingly coming under attack, mostly from the computer and digital industries. Funny, those folks in Cali in the computer and internet based industries don't want to give up any of their profits culled form others' intellectual property.

In this vein, an arrangement is not the same as writing a song, not matter what BT says.

Creating a drum part or bass line to a composition is arranging, not composing.





+1...as someone who has written a few tunes.....The concept comes from one person. The words, chords and basics are created by the song writer. The rest is the physical application of recording it.

Would anyone had a guitar part to put done on a recording if the concept wasn't first there for a guitar part to be laid down.

If guitar parts were the song then Tommy Tedesco would have the most song writing credits...when in fact he probably has none for all the work he did in the 60's and 70's in the studio.

There are some serious misconceptions by fans about bands and the music business. There probably isn't a single band that ever made it by democracy. It doesn't work in a band situation. Why because you'll get bogged down trying to meet everyone's way of thinking. Most bands that make it have a single leader who may consult the others in the band but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts there always needs to be one person who will make the hard decision. Duane was a leader of this band. I'm sure he asked for other input but when it got ugly I'm sure he said "This is going to be the way it is"/quote]

amen...

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 01:51 PM
I saw a John Densmore interview that was very informative on the Doors. It may have been Tavis Smiley, I missed the Gregg episode and always watch for a rebroadcast and bumped into it. Nice episode. He talked about his desire to keep the Doors "brand" as original as possible and wouldn't allow them to continue playing as the Doors without Jim Morrison. He stated how Jim wrote every song except for one and insisted on the full band taking writing credits and sharing the pie. He said the one song (I think Robbie Kreiger wrote) he hated and he insisted that he not have any credit/blame for it.

When a poem not in it's final form is brought to a group and tweaked and then the music is written and applied by all. Should only the poem writer profit? It is a dark alley that shelters many a hungry and deserving musician.

It is widespread but is magnified in some cases especially when the poem writer doesn't sing and the beauty comes from others, be it a classically trained musician or a country warbler from Arkansas.







[Edited on 1/4/2014 by Fretsman]

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 02:01 PM
I just want to disagree with the one here who stated that WSP do not write good songs. For instance,listen to the album Till the Medicine Takes.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 02:32 PM
"I know the Doors and Widespread Panic have taken the democratic route with sharing in songwriting. Any other bands out there?"

To the best of my knowledge, U2 split everything four ways.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 02:47 PM
quote:
"I know the Doors and Widespread Panic have taken the democratic route with sharing in songwriting. Any other bands out there?"

To the best of my knowledge, U2 split everything four ways.



The Eagles!

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 03:18 PM
Van Halen did, I'm not sure about Van Hagar.



 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 03:45 PM
Lennon/McCartney. Not matter who wrote the song, it was credited this way.
And after around 1965, the rarely wrote songs together

 

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  posted on 1/4/2014 at 03:50 PM
quote:
quote:
"I know the Doors and Widespread Panic have taken the democratic route with sharing in songwriting. Any other bands out there?"

To the best of my knowledge, U2 split everything four ways.



The Eagles!


I see what you did there

 
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