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Author: Subject: Trayvon Martin Trial

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 09:37 PM
Just wanted to get your thoughts on one point....if Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon Martin, would he call 911 beforehand letting them know he was about to do it?
 
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True Peach



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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 09:43 PM
I don't have an answer to that except to say that at least to me Zimmerman has come off to be a little bit off to me since the very beginning.

Now how about your thoughts on this one? If when on the phone on that 911 call the police operator specifically told Zimmerman NOT to follow Martin, WHY DID HE FOLLOW AND THEN CONFRONT HIM???????????????????

 

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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 10:11 PM
According to the defense, the 911 operator kept asking Zimmerman the whereabouts of Martin, giving the implication to keep an eye on him. Also according to the defense, it was Martin that attacked after figuring out he was being followed.
 

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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 11:27 PM
Right , let us know where he is as in what area, by what address , street, HOWEVER , not to follow him.
Clearly, the 9111 operator told him adn said waht was right, "No,we don't need you to do that."
Also, NW-Neighborhood Watch Org. first and foremost tells people you are not NOT law enforcement and you are not to follow, approach, apprehend, nothing to anyone . You are eyes and ears for the police.
Let the professional experts handle it and do their job.

My opinion, from what has been said, Zimmerman knew he was packing so he felt confident in approaching Martin.
No, Zimmerman did not know if Martin had a gun too.
Zimmerman is a wanna be hero and Martin, ok, say he was a wanna be tough , teenager guy and was not afarid of being confronted by Zimmerman.
"Why are you following me?"


Zimmeran had not right, no business, no common sense in approaching Martin. That is not illegal, but it was stupid.
Martin had no right to beck down and kneel down , lie down spread eagle and answer Zimmerman.
Who The F*&^ is Zimmerman?
Many people have lost their lives, disappeared or ended up chopped up in some freezer by talking to , getting too personal with strangers.

It is a sad case because Zimmerman should have not followed and approached this guy.
Martin should have ran home when he saw he was being followed and stayed on the phone with his girlfriend/friend.
Martin should not have approached or answered or tuned to confront Zimmerman.

All could have been avoided here.

[Edited on 6/25/2013 by SGirl]

 

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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 11:27 PM


[Edited on 6/25/2013 by SGirl]

 

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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 11:27 PM


[Edited on 6/25/2013 by SGirl]

 

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  posted on 6/24/2013 at 11:40 PM
opps Sorry about that.

[Edited on 6/25/2013 by SGirl]

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 05:42 AM
quote:
Just wanted to get your thoughts on one point....if Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon Martin, would he call 911 beforehand letting them know he was about to do it?


If he is really smart he would have done just that knowing people like you and perspective jurors would ask themselves that question.

So you really don't know, now do you? Nobody will ever know the truth. He won't say and the other person is dead. The truth does not mean squat. All that matters is the skill of the lawyers.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 07:36 AM
quote:
According to the defense, the 911 operator kept asking Zimmerman the whereabouts of Martin, giving the implication to keep an eye on him. Also according to the defense, it was Martin that attacked after figuring out he was being followed.


"Implication"..To imply."to indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated: " This terminology leaves room for a substantial amount of interpretation. It is not an order that can not be misunderstood. It is a suggestion. The Defense might even argue that it was a request....Unfortunately for the prosecution, the Dispatcher's words to Mr. Zimmerman are almost as vague. "Ok, we don't need you to do that"... Not quite as clear or to the point as something like.."Do not follow him, I repeat, Do not follow this man"....

This is going to be ugly.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 08:53 AM
quote:
quote:
Just wanted to get your thoughts on one point....if Zimmerman wanted to kill Trayvon Martin, would he call 911 beforehand letting them know he was about to do it?


If he is really smart he would have done just that knowing people like you and perspective jurors would ask themselves that question.

So you really don't know, now do you? Nobody will ever know the truth. He won't say and the other person is dead. The truth does not mean squat. All that matters is the skill of the lawyers.


Loveland, this is what it is going to come down to. You are so right. No witnesses. Well,the girl on the phone, 911 operator, but they were not there at the tragic end.
If,if Martin had his phone on...if ,if he had lived.
Ifs do not matter.

[Edited on 6/25/2013 by SGirl]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 09:08 AM
I think he should be found not-guilty of murder, and I'm predicting this will be the outcome. The notion that he wanted to kill and planned the murder is proposterous. Nobody calls 911 before they are about to committ a murder. The prosecution is making a huge mistake by claiming Zimmerman hunted him down and killed him in cold-blood. If anything, Zimmerman is guilty of using excessive force in self-defense, which obviously carries a much lighter sentence.
 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 09:43 AM
quote:
If anything, Zimmerman is guilty of using excessive force in self-defense, which obviously carries a much lighter sentence.


Funny thing is, to find yourself in a position of self-defense, you must find that you are being threatened. The Dispatcher's transcript makes it clear that the suspect was not following Mr. Zimmerman yet they were close enough for a "Confrontation" that required Mr. Zimmerman take a position of "Self-Defense". Obviously, Mr. Z..was following Trayvon.

I believe the Prosecution will prove that it was Mr. Z who initiated contact and that it was he who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ultimately, it was his decision. He was there of his own volition and therefore any wound or casualty finds he alone at fault. However, I believe the sentence will be plea-bargained down to a very short incarceration or possibly (and more likely) time served.

That is when the show will begin in earnest

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 10:06 AM
I think trying these cases in the public eye is reprehensible. This is "Bread and Circus" for the masses and is antithetical to achieving justice.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 10:12 AM
Agreed Billy.

quote:
Funny thing is, to find yourself in a position of self-defense, you must find that you are being threatened. The Dispatcher's transcript makes it clear that the suspect was not following Mr. Zimmerman yet they were close enough for a "Confrontation" that required Mr. Zimmerman take a position of "Self-Defense". Obviously, Mr. Z..was following Trayvon.

I believe the Prosecution will prove that it was Mr. Z who initiated contact and that it was he who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ultimately, it was his decision. He was there of his own volition and therefore any wound or casualty finds he alone at fault. However, I believe the sentence will be plea-bargained down to a very short incarceration or possibly (and more likely) time served.

That is when the show will begin in earnest


He who initiated the physical contact is at fault, and that seems to be the biggest issue. If Trayvon started the fight, then Zimmerman is innocent, and vice versa. If Trayvon struck first, then being followed does not justify a physical attack. You have an expected obligation to flee if possible. I doubt Zimmerman was trapping him.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 02:17 PM
quote:
quote:
If anything, Zimmerman is guilty of using excessive force in self-defense, which obviously carries a much lighter sentence.


Funny thing is, to find yourself in a position of self-defense, you must find that you are being threatened. The Dispatcher's transcript makes it clear that the suspect was not following Mr. Zimmerman yet they were close enough for a "Confrontation" that required Mr. Zimmerman take a position of "Self-Defense". Obviously, Mr. Z..was following Trayvon.

I believe the Prosecution will prove that it was Mr. Z who initiated contact and that it was he who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ultimately, it was his decision. He was there of his own volition and therefore any wound or casualty finds he alone at fault. However, I believe the sentence will be plea-bargained down to a very short incarceration or possibly (and more likely) time served.

That is when the show will begin in earnest


This is pretty much the same reasoning I perceived. The actions described flow linearly.

Not sure of the sentence if found guilty, but if he is guilty, he should not get a hand slap.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 02:20 PM
Zimmerman made it clear of his intentions while describing what was happening on the phone and stereotyping Martin right from the get go. He assumed Martin was doing something wrong or looking to start trouble or rob someone just because of his appearance, not because of any actions. Mistake one. Then he assumed that he could follow and approach Martin without any response from Martin. Mistake two. Once he made the phone call he should have never left his car. He could have easily just followed him from a distance but Zimmerman had to act like some kind of macho rent a cop because he knew he was packing and probably once again assumed that him having a gun was enough to scare away any possible physical confrontation. Big mistake again!!! You know what they say about assumption and Zimmerman did too much assuming and is a guilty ass as far as I am concerned. Maybe not of Murder 1 or Murder 2 but at the very least something like negligent homicide and it should carry a pretty decent sentence IMO. Long enough to deter other moron wanna be cops who think it is a smart idea to follow someone and call the cops on them or confront them solely on the basis of their appearance instead of on their actions.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 03:31 PM
sixty8, that was well put and in a few words. Clear, concise.
 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 03:52 PM
quote:
He assumed Martin was doing something wrong or looking to start trouble or rob someone just because of his appearance, not because of any actions. Mistake one.


Not a crime though.

quote:
he assumed that he could follow and approach Martin without any response from Martin. Mistake two.


The only crime here is from Trayvon, thinking he was allowed to assault someone just because they are following him. The law says Trayvon had an obligation to retreat, not instigate a fight.

quote:
Once he made the phone call he should have never left his car. He could have easily just followed him from a distance but Zimmerman had to act like some kind of macho rent a cop because he knew he was packing


Agreed.


 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 04:11 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
he assumed that he could follow and approach Martin without any response from Martin. Mistake two.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----



The only crime here is from Trayvon, thinking he was allowed to assault someone just because they are following him. The law says Trayvon had an obligation to retreat, not instigate a fight.


---------
There is no crime in being stupid.
Zimmerman was stupid to follow Martin.
Yes, if someone follows you, that does not give you the right to attack.


Fine. Tell me what would do if someone is following you on foot and you are walking? Would you feel your life is in danger? It is not normal to have someone follow you like that.
Now, here lies the part which no one knows . Who instigated the fight?
When Zimmerman got out of his and walked, ran to pursue Martin, what did he do or say to Martin? That is instigating a fight. Obviously there was a confrontation. Naturally there is a confrontation if you are following someone and of course, Zimmerman and Martin exchanged words first before the gunshot.
I guess if Martin had ran away, Zimmerman would have shot him in the back . Zimmerman wanted to hold this guy until the police came. Zimmerman , knowing he was packing, maybe thought he could draw his gun and hold Martin until the police came but Martin braced up to Zimmerman, 'Hey man what 's your problem...Why you following me..." Something like Martin said. Next thing, a fight happened and Zimmerman used his gun. Zimmerman wanted to question Martin.
"These ______ always get away with it." That is wanting to instigate a fight to me.
Seems like Zimmerman was thinking, well, not this time. I am going to hold this guy with my gun until the police get here. I am a hero. I am right and in the right.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 05:29 PM
At what point does Trayvon Martin have the right to defend himself from someone he feels is threatening him by following and possibly confronting him? For Zimmerman to say he had a right to defend himself to me is like a robber saying he had a right to defend himself and kill the victim because the victim fought back. I think Zimmerman fancied himself to be a real 'badass' and he was going to go after Martin. It might not have been first degree murder but it could well fall in the catagory of second degree murder in my opinion.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 05:35 PM
Lot's of conclusions being drawn here on the first full day of testimony.

 

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  posted on 6/25/2013 at 08:09 PM
Please.....
If I stabbed someone and then drove them to the hospital but they died in the ER can you still charge me with murder?

Zimmerman will be judged on his actions, not his intentions.

 

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  posted on 6/26/2013 at 11:47 AM
I don't know. This is a tough one. I don't even think Zimmerman DID follow him.

Plus he called the police. I guess it depends on who confronted who after the call. If Zimmerman stayed put waiting for the police but Martin confronted him that's one thing. But if he chased him down after the phone call and confronted him, that's another story.

Here is the full transcript of the 911 call. It sounds like he did the right thing... at least at the time of the call.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...
Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...
Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...
Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: Okay...
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
Dispatcher: Okay.
Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.
Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These **** s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** , he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance... **** [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: [redacted]
Dispatcher: All right, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman:: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, [Note 3, 4th picture] that's my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know. It's a cut through so I don't know the address.[Note 3, 6th & 7th pictures]
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home. It's 1950,[Note 3, 3rd picture] Oh, crap. I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay. Do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: All right, George. I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually, could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah. That's no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I got it [redacted]
Zimmerman: Yeah, you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay. No problem. I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You're welcome.

 

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  posted on 6/26/2013 at 11:56 AM
quote:
The only crime here is from Trayvon, thinking he was allowed to assault someone just because they are following him. The law says Trayvon had an obligation to retreat, not instigate a fight.


quote:
The law says Trayvon had an obligation to retreat, not instigate a fight


Would not this same "obligation" apply to George Zimmerman as well?...She he not have retreated?... No wait!... He chose to instigate a fight by following a complete stranger based on a biased hunch.

 

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  posted on 6/26/2013 at 12:13 PM
quote:
quote:
The only crime here is from Trayvon, thinking he was allowed to assault someone just because they are following him. The law says Trayvon had an obligation to retreat, not instigate a fight.


quote:
The law says Trayvon had an obligation to retreat, not instigate a fight


Would not this same "obligation" apply to George Zimmerman as well?...She he not have retreated?... No wait!... He chose to instigate a fight by following a complete stranger based on a biased hunch.


I do agree with this to a point... but I'm still just not sure that's the truth. He was a captain of the neighborhood watch and he saw something suspicious after having problems in the neighborhood and called the police. When the 911 dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow the guy, it sounds like he retreated... IF that is true (and maybe it's not) and Martin approached him and started beating him up (again, this may not be true), I'm not sure what Zimmerman did (up to that point) is bad at all. - But DON'T get me wrong, I'm not totally buying into this theory, I'm just thinking through possibilities and playing devil's advocate in my own head.

Either way... no matter what ... it was not worth a life.

 
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