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Author: Subject: PRISM ... All your freedoms and Privacy are GONE

Sublime Peach





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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 07:15 AM
The revelations of spying on telephone customers are extraordinary -- but it gets even worse. The government is spying, in real time, on rank-and-file Internet users. From the Guardian:

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

Let's put it plainly: It has been conclusively demonstrated that the government is spying on millions of Americans, without meaningful oversight, and without the assent of the very people -- all of us -- whom our government is supposed to represent.

The top secret document obtained by the Guardian also lists Microsoft, Yahoo, YouTube, Skype, and AOL as providers of user data to the NSA's PRISM program.

Those who have defended the government's enhanced cyber serveillance powers in the past argued that the NSA would have to get the consent of internet companies to obtain electronic communications -- but PRISM totally circumvents that, by giving the NSA direct access to the companies' servers!

All this effectively means anything we do on the internet can be (and has been) monitored by the federal government.

We must not lie down as the NSA and the federal government eviscerate our privacy rights, invading and surveilling our every move.


The CIA loves facebook and all social media sites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM5gbM4zA9I

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 11:50 AM
You just now figuring this out? When they passed the patriot act and started warrentless searches back around 2004 or so, the deal was sealed. I do, however, take comfort in knowing that I'm doing my part to overload the system so they'll have a harder time sorting it all out. And, as someone said way back when...if you're not doing anything wrong, it shouldn't bother you.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 12:07 PM
We freely gave them away when we decided that we needed to, "like" stuff and tell our story to the world....Everyone of us on this site has lost our privacy simply by being involved with social networking....we didn't need the government we all walked freely off the cliff in tandem hold hands and singing "we are the world" now please give us a bail of hay for being such jack A$$es

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 12:07 PM
It is no surprise to most that we've been monitored. The extent comes as a bit of a surprise, but not the fact they can and have been doing it.

I loved Obama's comment the other day: "no one is listening to your calls". Parsed, that's a perfectly political, plausibly deniable way to say it. Of course "no one" is listening. That would be impossible. Machines aren't people, hence "no one" is listening. That doesn't mean data isn't being gathered, information isn't being stored, or recordings aren't being made. It will all be there someday, for some gov't official to eventually listen to it, if you are ever deemed a trouble-maker of some sort.

This will be an interesting test. The only way this stops is if enough Americans agree that some portion of their privacy is more important than security. I'll give Obama credit for pointing out that you can't have 100% security and 100% privacy. But the balance has shifted dramatically in recent years against privacy. Will the public demand some of that back? If not, this will only get worse.

Two quotes from Jefferson seem appropriate...

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"


[Edited on 6/8/2013 by Fujirich]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 12:10 PM
quote:
And, as someone said way back when...if you're not doing anything wrong, it shouldn't bother you.

When the definition of "wrong" can be easily re-defined by the ever-grasping reach of gov't, perhaps we should be more careful of letting them have too much.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 12:20 PM
I'm already out there pretty far with my activiism. If they didn't come and get me for my 'pretzels for Bush' campaign, I figure I'm pretty safe now.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 12:41 PM
C'mon folks! If you can't trust the Federal Government who can ya trust?

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 10:09 PM
quote:
The revelations of spying on telephone customers are extraordinary -- but it gets even worse. The government is spying, in real time, on rank-and-file Internet users. From the Guardian:

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called PRISM, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

Let's put it plainly: It has been conclusively demonstrated that the government is spying on millions of Americans, without meaningful oversight, and without the assent of the very people -- all of us -- whom our government is supposed to represent.

The top secret document obtained by the Guardian also lists Microsoft, Yahoo, YouTube, Skype, and AOL as providers of user data to the NSA's PRISM program.

Those who have defended the government's enhanced cyber serveillance powers in the past argued that the NSA would have to get the consent of internet companies to obtain electronic communications -- but PRISM totally circumvents that, by giving the NSA direct access to the companies' servers!

All this effectively means anything we do on the internet can be (and has been) monitored by the federal government.

We must not lie down as the NSA and the federal government eviscerate our privacy rights, invading and surveilling our every move.


The CIA loves facebook and all social media sites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM5gbM4zA9I



Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 10:29 PM
Well they would find my communications pretty boring. My emails and text messages are mostlly to my grandaughters. If they find a 12 and 11 year olds a threat let them have at it...

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/8/2013 at 10:30 PM
And my posts on this site are pretty boring...

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2013 at 01:34 PM
I've been well known to the Feds for about 41 years, but they've got to know me better since I have to go through the Justice Dept and about a half dozen other agencies to get my permits for importation of "ammunition, components, firearms, and implements of war".
Which is funny since most of what I import is from Canada.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/9/2013 at 01:46 PM
It is sad that the wackos have taken this Republic down the road of destruction.
If you cant see the what's happening to your freedom and liberty, you are blind as a bag of hammers.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 6/10/2013 at 06:10 AM
Fauxnews tries to smear whistle blower ... "Hero or Traitor"


Damn these guys are good. Don't mess with the NWO.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/11/2013 at 03:38 PM
You know, I get the whole argument that "they're taking your freedom away", etc. But I have NEVER given a crap if someone is watching me. I'm not doing anything illegal, so what's the point? In fact, I feel pretty bad for them...
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/11/2013 at 04:10 PM
quote:
You know, I get the whole argument that "they're taking your freedom away", etc. But I have NEVER given a crap if someone is watching me. I'm not doing anything illegal, so what's the point? In fact, I feel pretty bad for them...


You should give a crap because they are not only watching you but people who represent, advocate and fight for the policies and political perspectives you believe in. Should any of those people be pursuing a political agenda that those in power dislike, the information collected on these advocates/activists could be used against them to suppress their views and by extension yours. For example, if you were, say, a Tea Party member, how do you feel about the IRS right now? If you were a supporter of the Occupy movement, what are your thoughts on the fact that Homeland Security collected information on and surveilled NYC protesters and offered "consulting" assistance to the NYPD as to how to disrupt and detain the protests?

My point is maybe YOU are not doing anything, but THOSE who are ACTING IN YOUR INTEREST are being surveilled too and that information could be improperly used against them to suppress and destroy a political movement you believe in. If that happens (If. Ha!) you WILL BE directly affected. Count on it.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/11/2013 at 04:49 PM
The paranoia here is laughable. "Our freedoms are gone", lol. Please. If you believe that, then your arrogance is through the too for you to think that anything you have to say is interesting to the government. They are after terrorists. The common American I'd far too dull for the government to give 2 craps about what you have to say.
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/11/2013 at 06:35 PM
quote:
The paranoia here is laughable. "Our freedoms are gone", lol. Please. If you believe that, then your arrogance is through the too for you to think that anything you have to say is interesting to the government. They are after terrorists. The common American I'd far too dull for the government to give 2 craps about what you have to say.


Yes. We are all arrogant and paranoid. They are only going after terrorists. True that. By the way, what is a "terrorist"? Well in the state of Tennessee for example it is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/us/taping-of-farm-cruelty-is-becoming-the -crime.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I could go through the internet and give you more links as to how the term "terrorist" is not only an empty catch-all, but examples of how Homeland Security and other agencies are focusing these powers on political dissent but I leave it up to you to decided if you really want to take a close look at the erosion of civil liberties in this country.

You could also Google Edward R Murrow and educate yourself as to how back in the day the government was "only after communists." This time it's different though. Right?


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/11/2013 at 09:12 PM
I'm glad they are doing it, and I like the Patriot Act too. It's about time the government took effective measures to get ride of the B.S. in this country. To think the government wants to waste their time and money on a regular Joe is just asinine and arrogant to think you are that interesting. it's paranoia, nothing more.


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/11/2013 at 09:37 PM
I think we need to take a step back and rethink our anger towards the US Government. Sure they may do somethings that go against our beliefs, but a lot of the hostility is completely misplaced. There are people now creating random texts and calls to flood the databases and make their mission more difficult. Why on Earth would anyone want to do that when they are trying to protect us and catch terrorists? Again, it is incredibly arrogant to think you are so interesting that the government wants to waste their time, money, and resources listening to your conversation or reading your texts. Enough with the paranoia.

Everyone wants the government to stay out of their lives until something goes wrong and then they need them. This government has given us the freedom to choose any career path, start our own business, grow it as much as possible, say whatever we want, have an unlimited amount of food and water, practice any faith, protected by laws (innocent till proven guilty), have law enforcement at our fingertips with 911, have social programs to take care of us when we are elderly, have the strongest military in the world that can prevent any invasion from any country, and the list goes on.......but when they try to locate terrorists by looking at anonymous phone lists without hearing of viewing any content, everyone is outraged and actually tries to sabotage it. Amazing.

If you want the government to stay out of your life, then don't try to start your own business, don't call 911 in an emergency, don't except any social program or tax breaks if you need them, and don't complain when your city and loved ones are bombed by terrorists.

[Edited on 6/12/2013 by BoytonBrother]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/12/2013 at 01:14 AM
quote:
It's about time the government took effective measures to get ride of the B.S. in this country.

Who's judging what is BS and what is not? What standard is applied?

We're seeing that one of the most feared parts of gov't for the average citizen - the IRS - has become an enforcement arm of a political ideology. Their actions tried to affect the outcome of an election.

You think this data won't eventually be used against citizens for tax purposes, or health care justifications, or god knows what in the future? Unchecked, there is no point at which gov't will say "we've gone too far" unless the citizens restrain it.

Gov't will always grow to abusive levels until enough citizens fight back. It is the nature of power, governance, and human nature. Time to restore some balance.

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 6/12/2013 at 05:44 AM

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/12/2013 at 06:28 AM
BoytonBrother, the problem that many people have with the government secretly deciding to seize the phone records, bank transactions, facebook pictures and all other data stored on various cloud servers of EVERY US citizen, is that this effectively ends the 4th Amendment and is another massive breakdown in how the democratic system is supposed to work if not the rule of law. Had it not been for this leak, we would have never known that the government is in secret and without meaningful oversight (FISA court? Congressional "briefings"? Spare me) viewing what records and for what purpose. The opportunity for abuse is huge.

Furthermore, our government has "given" us all these wonderful rights?? If you are really believe these rights, freedoms and services were just "given" to us please read some history articles or books. Nothing is given. (For example, "choice of career path" was not "given" to african americans in this country.) One of the wonderful qualities of our system of government is that it allows citizens a voice and the legal protections to organize and seek change and fight for a better way of life through a democratic process and non-violent means. And THAT IS EXACTLY WHY people are upset it has been shown that the government has in secret tried to render meaningless not just the protections of a law, but the fundamental right against government intrusion found in the 4th Amendment.

To continue the Star Wars referneces, "You're far too trusting."


 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/12/2013 at 07:19 AM
quote:
quote:
It's about time the government took effective measures to get ride of the B.S. in this country.

Who's judging what is BS and what is not? What standard is applied?

We're seeing that one of the most feared parts of gov't for the average citizen - the IRS - has become an enforcement arm of a political ideology. Their actions tried to affect the outcome of an election.

You think this data won't eventually be used against citizens for tax purposes, or health care justifications, or god knows what in the future? Unchecked, there is no point at which gov't will say "we've gone too far" unless the citizens restrain it.

Gov't will always grow to abusive levels until enough citizens fight back. It is the nature of power, governance, and human nature. Time to restore some balance.


I agree. However, with regard to the IRS, this latest scandal is nothing new for that organization. Which supports your very point. Read the short article below from The Week Magazine:

The IRS as a political weapon
The Internal Revenue Service, which has admitted selectively auditing conservative groups, has a long history of scandal.
By The Week Staff | June 5, 2013

Why was the IRS created?
When the U.S. was founded, it had no tax-collecting agency and little need for one for the next 80 years. The much smaller federal government of that era was funded largely by customs tariffs and state-collected excise taxes on sugar, liquor, and tobacco. But when the Civil War began, President Abraham Lincoln needed new revenues to cover the immense cost of waging the war, so in 1862 he successfully pushed Congress to create the country’s first income tax, and the Bureau of Internal Revenue to collect it. Seven years after the Civil War ended, the income tax was repealed, and again the government financed its operations mostly through taxes on alcohol and tobacco. But in the Progressive Era in the early 20th century, reformers argued that such taxes unfairly penalized the poor. At the same time, hawks wanted more revenue to build up the U.S. military. In 1913, the 16th Amendment was ratified, instituting the income tax for good.

How quickly did the taxing authority expand?
Within years of the income tax’s creation, World War I drove top tax rates to 77 percent. The number of tax returns also exploded—from 778,289 in 1916 to 7.6 million in 1920—and the agency was hard-pressed to keep up. After 1919, it also fell to the Bureau of Internal Revenue to enforce Prohibition. From the outset, overworked agents were susceptible to corruption and political influence in deciding whose returns to audit. Franklin D. Roosevelt brazenly used IRS audits as a weapon against conservative publishers William Randolph Hearst and Moses Annenberg, right-wing radio demagogue Father Charles Coughlin, and industrialist Andrew Mellon. FDR would not be alone in succumbing to that temptation. “In almost every administration since the IRS’s inception,” wrote David Burnham, author of A Law Unto Itself: Power, Politics and the IRS, “the information and power of the tax agency have been mobilized for explicitly political purposes.”

Did that lead to scandals?
Pretty regularly. In 1951, congressional Republicans uncovered widespread corruption at the Bureau of Internal Revenue, leading to the dismissal of 66 agents for such activities as bribe-taking and extortion. President Harry S. Truman proposed a reorganization in which tax agents would be hired through the civil service, rather than political patronage. Republican Dwight Eisenhower endorsed Truman’s reform plans and in 1953 changed the agency’s name to the Internal Revenue Service.

Did those reforms bear fruit?
Too often they did not. Throughout the 1950s and 1960s, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover’s Counter Intelligence Project—codenamed COINTELPRO—had unlimited access to the IRS files of such suspected “subversive’’ organizations as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the National Council of Churches; it even ordered an IRS audit of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. In the early 1960s, the IRS responded to President John F. Kennedy’s public complaints about tax-exempt conservative groups by setting up the Ideological Organizations Audit Project, which challenged their tax status. But it was President Richard Nixon who most blatantly wielded the IRS as a political weapon.

What did Nixon do?
The White House tapes recorded Nixon urging aide John Ehrlichman in 1971 to get the IRS to dig into the tax returns of possible Democratic presidential candidates Sens. Edmund Muskie, Hubert Humphrey, and Ted Kennedy. “I can only hope that we are, frankly, doing a little persecuting,” Nixon said. “There’s a lot of gold in them thar hills.” In 1969, the Nixon administration set up an IRS unit called the Special Service Staff, which used tax records to assemble dossiers on more than 11,000 groups and individuals. After the 1972 election, Nixon staffers gave the IRS a list of 576 supporters of Democrat George McGovern. In 1974, one of the articles of impeachment against Nixon charged him with seeking “confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposes not authorized by law.”

Did Watergate end IRS abuses?
There have been plenty of questionable audits since the Nixon era, including one of Paula Jones after she refused to settle a sexual harassment suit against President Bill Clinton. (His White House denied any role.) The IRS recently admitted that its division overseeing tax-exempt organizations had singled out groups with “Tea Party’’ and “patriots’’ in their names for special scrutiny. In its own defense, the IRS says enforcing tax laws effectively but impartially becomes harder each year, given the cuts to its operating budget—which is down 8 percent since 2010—and the growing complexity of the federal tax code. The tax code has been amended 4,680 times in the past 12 years alone and now runs to 74,000 pages. Such “complexity creep” only confirms “taxpayers’ suspicions that the tax laws are designed to entrap them and obscure what is and is not being taxed,” wrote National Taxpayer Advocate Nina E. Olson in her last annual report. “This is no way to run a tax system.”

Refusing to pay taxes
“I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization,’’ Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once said. But ever since federal income taxes were first levied, many Americans have disliked taxes so strongly that they’ve refused to pay them. Wichita contractor Arthur Porth unsuccessfully argued in a 1954 case that taxation amounts to “involuntary servitude,” making it illegal under the 13th Amendment. More recently, a Pennsylvania small-business owner named Larken Rose concocted the so-called 861 argument, named after the section of the code that lays out the sources of taxable income. In Rose’s arcane reading of that section, which he turned into a video that sold more than 15,000 copies, only income derived from “international commerce or federal possessions’’ is taxable. Courts have repeatedly rejected this reading of the code, and Rose has served 15 months in jail for tax evasion. Nonetheless, actor Wesley Snipes tried a version of the 861 argument to explain why he paid no taxes on $38 million he earned from 1999 to 2004. Unmoved, a judge sentenced him to three years in prison.


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/12/2013 at 08:48 AM
Here's a link that explains how overblown this story is. Ironically, it's on Foxnews.com: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/06/12/google-chief-officer-pushes-back-on- nsa-spy-program/

Axeman, your NY Times article states that a "group" drafted model bills that used the word "terrorist" in its language, but even activists claimed they have never seen any actual legislation that would label them as such. Furthermore, even if the law tried to label them a terrorist, we have lawyers and the court system that would sort it all out in 2 seconds. You also say there is "an opportunity for abuse", but when in US history has it been any different? The government has always been able to abuse us whenever they want. Until we see it happen, let's let them get the terrorists. If we see abuse, we fight back.

quote:
Who's judging what is BS and what is not? What standard is applied?

We're seeing that one of the most feared parts of gov't for the average citizen - the IRS - has become an enforcement arm of a political ideology. Their actions tried to affect the outcome of an election.

You think this data won't eventually be used against citizens for tax purposes, or health care justifications, or god knows what in the future? Unchecked, there is no point at which gov't will say "we've gone too far" unless the citizens restrain it.

Gov't will always grow to abusive levels until enough citizens fight back. It is the nature of power, governance, and human nature. Time to restore some balance.


Fujirich, all good points, and I fully support the right for citizens to fight back against such government actions, as that defines our great country. However, they stated this is to fight terrorism.....who would argue that terrorism isn't BS? This post implies that there will be a domino effect, which is pure speculation. Until I see evidence of an innocent American subjected to government abuse from this Prism program, I'm all for it. As mentioned earlier, the government has been able to abuse us since 1776, and today is no different.


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/12/2013 at 08:52 AM
Jerryphilbob, call me ignorant all you want, but life is too short to worry about things that won't affect your life. If you want to choose to spend your day being angry and paranoid over nothing, so be it. Let me know when your life has been affected by this so-called Prism program, and I'll surely offer you a mea culpa. I won't hold my breath though.
 
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