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Author: Subject: 1991/2012 ABB

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 06:47 PM
Listening today to the show the Brothers did in 1991.

Gave a lot of thought to the differences in sound from that band and today's version of the ABB.

Not gonna compare to originals or 73-76 eras given the 91 band compares favorably to those prior eras of the band.

My intent is not to offend anyone but to encourage those interested to share their opinions.

In 1991:

1.The setlists...end of he line,low down dirty mean,gambler's roll,good clean fun,etc.The variety was excellent.

2.Gregg's energy,voice,level of interest,excellence on B-3 and piano...did I mention the voice...the power,versatility,range...wow...and he was so so into it.

3.They were having fun and communicating musically in a very active way..the DVD I saw was evidence...Gregg played and at times Dickey would come stand next to Gregg..kinda leaning into him,like Duane did....they high fived after a song...

4.This was the Brothers....looking low down,dirty looking,unwashed,and mean motherphuckers....and their sound reflected it.

5.the bounce and swing were there.Todays band is more of a excellent hard rock band,but the bounce and swing...just watch the body language and listen,are there in 91.

6.The guitarists don't duel.They sing together in harmony and melodically.No shredding,but playing within the song structure.

7.3 voice harmonies were tremendous.

8.Dickey...no more need be said.An American original...puts tones and notes in his playing no one else can or ever will...a true genius and original.

9.Warren was a very perfect player then...no hard rock...still an awesome player,but more traditional Allmans sound in 91.

10.Woody...the power and melodiousness that was the foundation of the bounce and swing,as Lamar and Berry were before him..Woody was special....

11.A fully engaged Jaimoe.Fantastic.

12. No repetitious guitar duels.

13.They gave each other and each instument more space...today it's sometimes an overwhelming freight train...in 91 the sound had more dynamics...more breathing room to focus on each instument....

14.Pecussion and drums were more layered and had more swing,following Woody's lead.

Well,just some thoughts....and my bias is there...these 91 Brothers were The Allman Brothers Band...in 2012 they are a great band,but the sound and whole approach are not,imho,in the tradition of the originals or the 73-76 band.

Just opinion...and we know what hats worth

 
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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 06:51 PM
the 1990's band wrote and recorded new music. This current band has put out one album. You gotta put out new music.
 

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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 07:06 PM
quote:
the 1990's band wrote and recorded new music. This current band has put out one album. You gotta put out new music.


I think your ABB nickname should be Mule. Your daily crusade is admirable and no sign of you letting up till they get into the studio.

Without getting long winded about it. I disagree with many points Effie. And agree with others.

Warren's sound was far heavier back then as was Dickey's. Comes from absolute volume onstage. I know many that miss Warren's tone from that era and most are my metal buddies.

Setlists? Not sure what you were listening to but they were the same most every night. Not complaining about it but with Dickey around that is what it was. Not until warren's return did the setlists get crazy and different nightly.

Not sure what you intended with #12 but are the ABB not built around guitar duels. Perhaps your intention was the repetition part. If so then warren was far more unpredictable back then I agree. Dickey was pretty much though. Always great but relied on different parts nightly.

I love all the eras and the ABB from 90-95 was awesome. After that in fairness, Dickey starts to have some off nights with rarely heard from him bum notes and shortened solos. Gregg by that point was barely in the mix live both vocally and keys.

Leads me to your Gregg comment. Gregg definitely was the weakest link through those years. Saw many a show where you could barely hear him all night. All the soundboard recording leaked over that time are all the proof needed. That is why I laughed later when Gregg told Dickey to listen to the tapes. Perhaps he should have done the same.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 07:12 PM
quote:
2.Gregg's energy,voice,level of interest,excellence on B-3 and piano...did I mention the voice...the power,versatility,range...wow...and he was so so into it.

4.This was the Brothers....looking low down,dirty looking,unwashed,and mean motherphuckers....and their sound reflected it.

8.Dickey...no more need be said.An American original...puts tones and notes in his playing no one else can or ever will...a true genius and original.

9.Warren was a very perfect player then...no hard rock...still an awesome player,but more traditional Allmans sound in 91.

10.Woody...the power and melodiousness that was the foundation of the bounce and swing,as Lamar and Berry were before him..Woody was special....


And there you have it.

Well, that and some great percussionist!

 

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Well 30 years of heart and soul,lord we took it further than rock and roll.
We stood together thru thick and thin,yeah we made the best of it all back then.
Then I guess time took it's toll,cut me deep,cut me cold.
Brother against brother....

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 07:18 PM
quote:
Gregg by that point was barely in the mix live both vocally and keys.


As in many times during Gregg's tenure in the band.
Luckily, volume controls work in both directions.

quote:
That is why I laughed later when Gregg told Dickey to listen to the tapes. Perhaps he should have done the same.


Of all the things Gregg has said about Dickey being out of the band......

 

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Well 30 years of heart and soul,lord we took it further than rock and roll.
We stood together thru thick and thin,yeah we made the best of it all back then.
Then I guess time took it's toll,cut me deep,cut me cold.
Brother against brother....

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 09:50 PM
I like the current lineup more than dadof2, but as usual he presents his case well and in such a way that it encourages that rarest of phenomena, intelligent conversation on the Internet

I know what you mean about the "bounce and swing" in Dickey's sound, something that many have said traces back to the great Western swing bands of the 30s and 40s. That sound was a fundamental part of Dickey's musical consciousness, and something the current lineup struggles to replicate on tunes like Elizabeth Reed. It seems like it took this lineup years to play the main riff "properly" to my ears. Well said.

However, saying "the variety was excellent" when talking about early 90s ABB setlists is a bit much. They were notorious for playing just about the same thing every night. Several of the songs you mention I don't miss at all, especially Good Clean Fun, one of my least favorite ABB tunes. Everyone's opinion is different, but I much prefer the setlist variety of the current band.

I also respectfully disagree with the idea that Warren Haynes in 1991 had "no hard rock" in his playing and didn't play shredding solos. My very first impression of Warren was "what is this heavy metal guy doing playing in the Allman Brothers?" Don't get me wrong, he quickly won me over, and I agree that there was something about his tone and playing in that glory era of the early 90s that was really special. But he has always had that hard rock edge, it's in his DNA in the same way the swing is in Dickey's blood.

I consider Derek to be the most creative and least repetitive guitar player on Earth, so I don't think of this lineup being more repetitive in their guitar duels than the 91 band. I also think he and Warren have come a long way since they first starting playing together, in terms of really playing TOGETHER and not just competing for who is the fastest gun in the West.

Also disagreed about the current lineup having less dynamics. The 1991 band was very LOUD pretty much all the time, unless they were playing Melissa or something. The 91 band was more in your face, stadium rock, we are going to bring it for 3 hours and rock your face off. You could argue that they had more raw power to their sound, thanks in large part to the great Allen Woody. The current lineup does a lot more quiet, jazzy jamming to my ears. Just my opinion.

Much agreed about the vocal harmonies in 1991, though. Gregg and Warren and Dickey on a good night in the early 90s had the best group vocals of any ABB incarnation. Good point.

Also fair to say that at this point, the Dickey/Warren lineup wins on original material. Nobody Knows and Back Where It All Begins are two of Dickey's best, and True Gravity in 1996 was awesome. I like a lot of the current lineup's material, especially Desdemona, High Cost of Low Living and Egypt. But I think you have to give the nod on that one to the Dickey/Warren band.

Agree on some points, disagree on others, but the early 90s was definitely one of many peaks for the Allman Brothers Band. Some place the peak of that lineup in 94, but I think 91-92 is where it's at. You really can't go wrong with anything from those years.

 
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  posted on 8/30/2012 at 11:33 PM
quote:
I consider Derek to be the most creative and least repetitive guitar player on Earth

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 04:57 AM
The 1990's Allman Bros band was awesome and powerful. The version out now is great too but having warren,allen woody and later on Jack pearson in the band was amazing.
 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 07:03 AM
91-92 indeed was a peak time period for the band. Johnny Neel essentially was traded for Marc Quinones in a move that really completed the foundation of the band that we have witnessed over the last 23 years. Guitar players have changed and Oteill followed Woody but that kick ass rhythm section has remained the same. Some of the available footage from 91 - End of the Line; Elizabeth Reed;One Way Out displays a band that is hitting on all cylinders. Instinctive , creative playing that made us want more and more of this wonderful music.
 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 09:04 AM
I won't say a word to Rob... But i too loved the old band much better i also loved the hittin the note CD but after that it all changed not in a bad way but changed from the ABB to well another band playing covers of the ABB like i said not in a bad way just different and it was a change that i just never got on board with....
 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 09:52 AM
Cool thread -- there's so much there between these 2 eras -- Aug. 19/20 2004 Meadowbrook/Mansfield are 2 great great shows -- opening w/Mtn. Jam, then segueing into Afro Blue??? No other band on the planet could do that stuff like the Brothers --

...or the Mansfield show in 1994 the day after Woodstock 25th -- that one, the 5/22/94 Warfield Theatre -- some of the stuff w/Jack on the 1998 Beacon tape is the ABB playing at their best regardless of era -- many shows from the 90s, esp. w/Jack, I like better than the 2 official live releases...
personally I like the current band's mix onstage better -- they were "louder" than they needed to be back then IMO

what about Derek's WPost solo 10/1/2005 Atlanta (the intro especially) --
when the ABB is feelin' it, like on JJ's Alley from Saratoga 1999 tape -- they are from another planet musically
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE TONITE IN NEBRASKA.

On that note, keep the posts coming & happy holiday weekend



[Edited on 8/31/2012 by Stephen]

 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 12:05 PM
Hey Effie, you know my favorite era of the Brothers is the is the first 2 lineups, and my 3rd favorite era was the '91 through '94 shows. I was neither here nor there on them since 2000, enjoyed them but really didn't make an effort to go see them.

But after hearing these July/August show from this year, WOW! The 2 Boston shows, the 2nd Peachfest show, man oh man, I feel like I used to feel when I was in high school back in the 70s! Gregg is singing like the Gregg of old, some much emotion, everybody seems to have stepped up their game. Everyone playing with a purpose it seems. And they are playing all of the old ABB tunes along with a few select covers. The first Boston show, the last 5 songs of the night, The Same Thing (best version ever!), Dreams, Melissa, Liz Reed and an encore of Black Hearted Woman, are incredible, worth the price of the ticket right there. And then the first set of the next night in Boston, the first set, again, just amazing.

These shows are the best I have heard since Chuck and Lamar was in the band.

[Edited on 8/31/2012 by Wayne]

 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 12:09 PM
excellent thread.....my first show was in Raleigh, Sept 1992 and my most recent one was also Raleigh, Aug 2012...lots of similarities and lots of differences between the on-stage product on each of those nights for sure, but on both of those nights I left the venue with a great feeling in my soul and happiness from the music I just experienced....I miss Dickey Betts, Allen Woody, and the mid-show acoustic set....but love how the guys today still make the music feel as powerful as it was back in the early 1990s
 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 12:53 PM
I would prefer to go back a bit further to when Johnny Neel was in the band, and there were three instruments to play off, rather than two. I also miss the vocal harmonies with Dickey Warren and Gregg that added a big element to the band.

Even in the earlier years of the current lineup, it seems to me like Derek and Warren played together more than they do now, when it seems like they mostly trade solos.

I think that's the dynamics that Effie is referring to, not just changes in volume. Without an active keyboard player and with limited vocal harmonies, this lineup has become more one dimensional. Without new material, the band throws in a few new jams and a few covers. Dazed and Confused does not stay fresh very long.

If you see the band one or two time a year (or even less) it remains fresh for a long time. But for us spoiled northeasterners who have the Beacon in our back yard and multiple other opportunities to see the band it does not. Add that to the fact that this lineup has been together for a long time and you have a recipe for stagnation when you do not bring fresh material into the mix.

 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 01:06 PM
quote:
Cool thread --

what about Derek's WPost solo 10/1/2005 Atlanta (the intro especially) --
when the ABB is feelin' it -- they are from another planet musically
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE TONITE IN NEBRASKA.



yes, freakin incredible intro, and then detuning - and then my mind split open... Herr Brer Michael & I were diggin it.

danks for bringing that moment up. gotta dig that IL out and give'r a spin this w/e.

 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 01:09 PM
'91 has always been my favorite year of the Warren/Dickey era. Basically because Dickey was at the top of his game that year. They mixed up the setlists more in '94-'96 and there are some outstanding shows in that period also. But, I stand by '91 as Dickey's peak year.
 

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  posted on 8/31/2012 at 06:22 PM
Thanks for posting. After reading this post, I went back and watched a little bit of Germany 1991. I like the aggressiveness of the playing in 1991. Now that I'm getting older, I really don't care about altered setlists every night. I now prefer a solid set with great playing throughout the show.
 

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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 01:45 AM
quote:
Now that I'm getting older, I really don't care about altered setlists every night. I now prefer a solid set with great playing throughout the show.


Agreed.

Most people - those who even get the opportunity, that is - only see one show in a tour or run and want to see a solid set of favourites played well.

Shuffling up set lists is a by-product of the Beacon run with people attending mulitiple shows. Recently, it seems to have resulted in some odd covers being included just for the sake of variety.








 

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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 05:06 AM
As much as I complain about the brothers not bringing out new music ,I have to say that I love the setlists when they include Blue sky,worried down,the sky is crying,mtn jam,Egypt and bag end into the mix.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 05:57 AM
This is a fun thread...thanks....

Lots of great opinions here and I can see that I need to reconsider part of my original post.

I clearly misspoke on variety of songs in the 90's....I guess I wa so excited to hear all the songs no longer played.

Like true gravity,I believe blew my mind.

KC Jimmy is correct about variety of ABB songs covered in the 2000's...I guess its about the way they play the songs...

In the original band,the 73-76 band and in the early 90's they had bounce,swing,and all my earlier points.

It was how they played more than anything and that of course,is a matter of taste.

I should mention it was the energy of the Germany DVD that got me thinking on all this....

And let's not undersestimate low down,dirty,mean motherphuckers....with bounce and swing a key element to the sound

[Edited on 9/1/2012 by dadof2]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 06:26 AM
quote:
It is fun (until somebody gets hurt )



No reason for any hurt..all in good spirit of the love of music....

 

True Peach



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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 09:47 AM
X2 on the cool posts all around, by people who've sure loved this band for a long time -- way-cool stuff KCJimmy, altho personally I've always thought it best to leave the original band out of any "comparison" discussion (re the, At some point you have to compare each of these [lineups] to the original band, sentence). There are so many lineups that came after -- in short what the band did starting out w/Duane & Berry is, IMHO, its own untouchable entity -- what came after only aspired to what they played
again, just 1 lonely opinion in a terrific discussion -- a real nice holiday weekend all!

[Edited on 9/1/2012 by Stephen]

 

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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 11:36 AM
I was a 21 year old college student in the summer of 1990 when I absolutely fell in love with the Allman Brothers. I went from an appreciative, greatest hits fan, to full-fledge disciple. I am a HUGE fan of 1991/1992. Few thoughts:

The variety mentioned about 1991-1992 isn't between shows, it's within a show. Remember, they were doing acoustic sets in the middle and banging out 19 songs a night.

The harmony vocals were indeed amazing and nothing like the ABB had before. Interestingly, Gregg & Dickey's voices never blended very well....until Warren was added as the third layer. Whoa!

I do think that some of the songs were done in an Arena Rock format that in retrospect didn't swing as much as some others seem to hear (we all hear things differently). To me, songs like One Way Out and Done Somebody Wrong sounded more like the early days with the current lineup and swing galore. Statesboro Blues in Atlanta was swinging so much a few weeks ago and it was practically bounding (though I do miss Dickey's sunshine solo from the 1990s in the middle).

Derek brought the "harmonica" / "french horn" Duane slide sound back to the band on certain songs and as much as I love 1991/1992 ABB and Warren's slide tone from those days, it didn't have that.

Good Clean Fun comment: I invite those who are not big fans of the song to check out the 2004 Fox Theatre rendition. The band turned it from a motorcyle bar chugging rocker into practically a swing tune. It's without a doubt my favorite version. Gregg does an outtro organ solo that is very cool too and Derek and Warren play it much "lighter" than the original.

I think I acually enjoyed Warren's ABB playing alongside Dickey the most of any point in his career.

Of all the talk of how Gregg had to have his mic turned down and was a mess at different times including during the early 90s, every official release, live soundboard boot, or TV show from that era, he absolutely roars. He had a way to compartmentalize his drinking and perform loaded. I would think his bad shows would have been more documented (though his bloated state around 1995-1996 wasn't always pretty).

Ironically, it was Woody's bass playing when I heard the first notes of Good Clean Fun on the radio in June 1990, that told me it was the ABB.

Woody on acoustic bass was something to behold. He had amazing power and drove the band in those formats. Elizabeth Reed acoustic from June 1992 is one of the all-time peaks of this band.

I love how Oteil can direct the band in a jazzy way and he is an absolute world class talent who fits in with the band amazingly well. I don't think a better replacement for Woody was alive.

Warren has been playing with ABB members or in the band since 1987, a full 25 years. No wonder he sounds like an Allman Brother.

I'm VERY glad the ABB finished off the year with the Peachfest Saturday night show (not counting the 90 minute gig last night). The performances shows the ABB still have IT in 2012 in a big way!

 

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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 11:46 AM
Good points by many in this thread, and it has remained civil. Well done people!

Since dadof2 mentioned it again, I want to address the "low down, dirty mean mutherphuckers" comment about the band's attitude and swagger in the early 90s compared to now.

I do agree that some of that vibe has gone out of the band, but I don't miss it. I think they created great music in spite of their rougher tendencies, not because of it. Beating people up and abusing drugs and alcohol has not been proven to improve one's musical ability. In extreme cases, people have even been kicked out of bands for that kind of behavior.

I prefer a less dark, more spiritually uplifting vibe, but that's just my opinion. Give me the spiritual consciousness of a Jimi Hendrix or Carlos Santana any day.

 
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  posted on 9/1/2012 at 12:31 PM
quote:
Good points by many in this thread, and it has remained civil. Well done people!

Since dadof2 mentioned it again, I want to address the "low down, dirty mean mutherphuckers" comment about the band's attitude and swagger in the early 90s compared to now.

I do agree that some of that vibe has gone out of the band, but I don't miss it. I think they created great music in spite of their rougher tendencies, not because of it. Beating people up and abusing drugs and alcohol has not been proven to improve one's musical ability. In extreme cases, people have even been kicked out of bands for that kind of behavior.

I prefer a less dark, more spiritually uplifting vibe, but that's just my opinion. Give me the spiritual consciousness of a Jimi Hendrix or Carlos Santana any day.



For me,different bands for different vibes...got my music for the spiritual side,but the ABB ,fo me,represent e low,down,dirty,mean....not that too can't have a spiritual dimension...a matter of taste and emphasis I guess...o

 
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