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Author: Subject: Question about song writing credit.

A Peach Supreme





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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 01:20 PM
I was listening to The Stones, Can't You Hear Me Knocking.
I realy enjoy Mick Taylor's long jazzy solo.
Writing credit given to Jagger/Richards

Another example is Chuck's solo on Jessica.
Writing credit given to Richard Betts.

Is writing credit sometimes given to the soloist as well for a major contribution to the song ?




[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Peachstatedawg]

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 02:08 PM
by that argument, Duane should have gotten a credit for Layla, and George Martin should have gotten more than a few credits along with john and Paul.

I don't think it happens that much, thought I agree with you

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 02:15 PM
Each band is different I think. The Doors had a collective agreement. With the Allmans I heard that Duane made the decision on song-writing credits. It makes sense doing it this way as a band needs new songs and if you take away an important incentive to write songs you won't get new material. It also takes a considerable amount of creativity and work to come up with new material over and over again and so you reward this effort with song credits.

Dickey did share credits with quite a few band members including Warrren and so he must have had some kind of flexible rule.


 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 02:35 PM
quote:
Each band is different I think. The Doors had a collective agreement. With the Allmans I heard that Duane made the decision on song-writing credits. It makes sense doing it this way as a band needs new songs and if you take away an important incentive to write songs you won't get new material. It also takes a considerable amount of creativity and work to come up with new material over and over again and so you reward this effort with song credits.

Dickey did share credits with quite a few band members including Warrren and so he must have had some kind of flexible rule.




Dickey has described in detail writing songs with Warren at Dickey's house in Florida. He didn't just give Warren some credit, Warren worked on the songs from the ground up, in particular the instrumentals True Gravity and Kind Of Bird. The same goes for Gregg and Warren writing at Gregg's house. Gregg had a bunch of ideas together, showed them to Warren and they worked up complete songs. Warren got co-write credit.

I think the only time soloists should get a credit is if a song is born from a collective jam, like "Mountain Jam" or what Liquid Tension Experiment was doing. Otherwise, someone has to create the structure of the material, i.e. the songwriter, and they should get credit. teh soloist usually works with the structure presented in the song. It's probably pretty rare for someone to play a solo and go "hey, write a song to fit my solo." and if they did, the solo probably has enough structure to be made into a song and the soloist becomes the songwriter and is no longer the soloist.

Besides, you can have a great solo in a sh!tty song and the soloist might not want writing credit

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 06:24 PM
quote:
quote:
Each band is different I think. The Doors had a collective agreement. With the Allmans I heard that Duane made the decision on song-writing credits. It makes sense doing it this way as a band needs new songs and if you take away an important incentive to write songs you won't get new material. It also takes a considerable amount of creativity and work to come up with new material over and over again and so you reward this effort with song credits.

Dickey did share credits with quite a few band members including Warrren and so he must have had some kind of flexible rule.




Dickey has described in detail writing songs with Warren at Dickey's house in Florida. He didn't just give Warren some credit, Warren worked on the songs from the ground up, in particular the instrumentals True Gravity and Kind Of Bird. The same goes for Gregg and Warren writing at Gregg's house. Gregg had a bunch of ideas together, showed them to Warren and they worked up complete songs. Warren got co-write credit.

I think the only time soloists should get a credit is if a song is born from a collective jam, like "Mountain Jam" or what Liquid Tension Experiment was doing. Otherwise, someone has to create the structure of the material, i.e. the songwriter, and they should get credit. teh soloist usually works with the structure presented in the song. It's probably pretty rare for someone to play a solo and go "hey, write a song to fit my solo." and if they did, the solo probably has enough structure to be made into a song and the soloist becomes the songwriter and is no longer the soloist.

Besides, you can have a great solo in a sh!tty song and the soloist might not want writing credit


this is pretty much my view about writing credits unless you are a band thats already agreed the credit will be split equally no matter what. poison and black sabbath did that and i'm sure there are others

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 08:21 PM
quote:


Dickey has described in detail writing songs with Warren at Dickey's house in Florida. He didn't just give Warren some credit, Warren worked on the songs from the ground up, in particular the instrumentals True Gravity and Kind Of Bird. The same goes for Gregg and Warren writing at Gregg's house. Gregg had a bunch of ideas together, showed them to Warren and they worked up complete songs. Warren got co-write credit.




I could have added more to my post but thought it best not to bring up old issues. Dickey has been accused of hogging the limelight, dominating the band with his songs and not giving proper credit to Butch etc —even Les Dudek is often brought up. I know about the Warren/Dickey sessions and they are a good example of Dickey sharing credit where it is due. No doubt Warren did his share on these songs.

The OP was suggesting another practice and I simply wanted to say Dickey is not like Mick and Keith. If Warren had worked in the same capacity for the Stones or even the early version of the Band he would not have gotten credit. Even in the Dead it was always Garcia/Hunter or Weir/ Barlow and the hired hands not getting credit.

On your note about the soloist becoming the song writer you are aware that Berry Oakley provided the structure for Whipping Post yet he wasn't credited. Berry Oakley's overall role with the arrangments has never been clarified and the reasons for this are likely monetary.

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 09:23 PM
The age old question and there are a million different tales. Lead to a million lawsuits and plenty of rich lawyers.

Bill Wyman's autobiography talked about Mick and Keith getting credit for all sorts of ideas that came from others or a mutual group jam. Feels that the other members were screwed and management always sided with Mick and Keith to stay on the good side.

I often bring up the first ABB album. Gregg gets all the credit when most songs clearly should have been a group credit. 8 minute songs with 1 minutes of lyrics which even repeat themselves. No knock on Gregg but without the others input, it would be 10 minutes worth of tunes. If Duane made that choice, it didn't serve his family or other members well. Talking about millions of dollars.

George and Ringo fighting for credit and to get songs on albums. The tales are endless.

Something ever band needs to discuss openly and honestly from the start. The song that you wrote with a buddy could turn out to be the next big thing. Like the Beatles Yesterday, it will be covered by countless other artists in every language there is. Your buddy took full credit and is loaded. You will be pissed. Protect your material.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 10:48 AM
Maybe others deserved credit onthe first ABB album, but length of song doesn't clearly indicate anything definitive. Btw, The longest song on the first ABB album is Dreams at 7:16. Those with more insight than I say that Oakley came up integral parts to Whipping Post (clocked in at 5:16). Certainly believable.

Gregg is a capable keyboardist and guitarist. Certainly capable of having written a song and then described how he wanted the parts he could not play himself to sound (Steve Harris of Maiden hums the guitar parts and vocal melody to the other guys in his band when he writes a song on bass). That's not so uncommon. The idea that a keyboardist, acoustic guitarist and vocalist could only write the seconds of a song where that person is singing is not fair.

Fast forward to Brothers and Sisters: The piano section to Jessica is so much more than a solo that I had wondered how Chuck didn't have cowriting credits. It may have been a similar thing where Dickey described in detail how he wanted that part of the song played to Chuck and maybe even hummed out or played piano ideas on the guitar for him.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 11:59 AM
I noticed that with mostly all of Widespread Panic songs ,the band is credited as the songwriter.
 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 01:24 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Each band is different I think. The Doors had a collective agreement. With the Allmans I heard that Duane made the decision on song-writing credits. It makes sense doing it this way as a band needs new songs and if you take away an important incentive to write songs you won't get new material. It also takes a considerable amount of creativity and work to come up with new material over and over again and so you reward this effort with song credits.

Dickey did share credits with quite a few band members including Warrren and so he must have had some kind of flexible rule.




Dickey has described in detail writing songs with Warren at Dickey's house in Florida. He didn't just give Warren some credit, Warren worked on the songs from the ground up, in particular the instrumentals True Gravity and Kind Of Bird. The same goes for Gregg and Warren writing at Gregg's house. Gregg had a bunch of ideas together, showed them to Warren and they worked up complete songs. Warren got co-write credit.

I think the only time soloists should get a credit is if a song is born from a collective jam, like "Mountain Jam" or what Liquid Tension Experiment was doing. Otherwise, someone has to create the structure of the material, i.e. the songwriter, and they should get credit. teh soloist usually works with the structure presented in the song. It's probably pretty rare for someone to play a solo and go "hey, write a song to fit my solo." and if they did, the solo probably has enough structure to be made into a song and the soloist becomes the songwriter and is no longer the soloist.

Besides, you can have a great solo in a sh!tty song and the soloist might not want writing credit


this is pretty much my view about writing credits unless you are a band thats already agreed the credit will be split equally no matter what. poison and black sabbath did that and i'm sure there are others


Van Halen did the same in the early years. Legend has it the equal split changed just before they released "1984."

 
 


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