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Author: Subject: ABB and "electric trading"

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 07:12 AM
I gotta say that the ABB was, hands down, once my favorite band. But the lack of live shows began to wear on me.

All the other artists out there have embraced technology, while the ABB have not. Look at the other industries where businesses fail to adapt to new technology- they die.

I know all about the B&P and old school trades, but I don't have the time nor sticktuitiveness for that type of hobby.

Has there been any talk about the ABB changing their policy on online trading?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 08:05 AM
I may be biased because I am so technologically clueless that I have never downloaded anything yet, but old school burning and mailing CDs is not all that hard. It ain't picking cotton! Don't let that keep you from some good music.
 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 08:12 AM
I haven't heard anything new on this front.

Pretty much every show from the current lineup is available online, you just have to pay money for them. So it's not really a lack of live shows, more like a lack of willingness to pay for them.

If you don't want to pay for the soundboards, you can still get audience recordings for free, but as you said, that does require a little bit of work on your part, plus some blanks and postage. Still, even with blanks and postage, you could get the whole recent Beacon run for what, $15? If you're not willing to pay $1.50 a show, maybe you're just not that interested.

I think you could make a strong argument that opening up online trading of audience recordings would be a good way to reach new fans. But when you only play 20 shows a year, and it seems like the band is winding down in general, I can see why that would be a low priority.

[Edited on 7/5/2012 by RobJohnson]

 
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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 08:49 AM
The biggest gripe I have with the no torrenting/downloading policy is that has prevented me from hearing eras of the band I'd like to explore. Particularly the Jack Pearson/Dickie lineup, or the Johnny Neel era. I know great SBDs of those lineups exist and it's frustrating to me not to be able to get them online. It particularly stings with regards to Jack as he's held in such high esteem by many on this board - but I've rarely had a chance to hear him play. I've got some shows from the current lineup where he subbed for Warren or Derek - or guested - but that's not quite the same as enjoying a full show from a time he was in the band full time.
I suppose that's a minor concern given wealth of material I can get - but it does seem like this policy makes little sense and hurts the band more than it helps them. It's particularly odd given that Warren, Derek, Oteil, and I think even Jaimoe have no such policy for their solo bands.

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 11:29 AM
"Warren, Derek, Oteil, and I think even Jaimoe have no such policy for their solo bands."

Gee, makes you wonder who the problem is?

Maybe it's the same person who caused months of delays on the 2009 Beacon shows, doesn't want to release any more archives, etc.

After all, you can't expect somebody who doesn't want fans to even be able to PAY to hear live Allmans music to have a very friendly attitude about them listening to it for free.

Just an educated guess...

 
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True Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 11:47 AM
quote:
"Warren, Derek, Oteil, and I think even Jaimoe have no such policy for their solo bands."

Gee, makes you wonder who the problem is?

Maybe it's the same person who caused months of delays on the 2009 Beacon shows, doesn't want to release any more archives, etc.

After all, you can't expect somebody who doesn't want fans to even be able to PAY to hear live Allmans music to have a very friendly attitude about them listening to it for free.

Just an educated guess...


Damn you Marc Quinones!

It still befuddles me that almost 3.5 yrs later, we still await the 40th anniv DVD. Musical malpractice.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 11:50 AM
Brock has cracked the code, it's actually Marc Quinones calling all the shots

I think he was actually behind the whole autopen fiasco as well....

 
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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 12:25 PM
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 01:06 PM
quote:
quote:
"Warren, Derek, Oteil, and I think even Jaimoe have no such policy for their solo bands."

Gee, makes you wonder who the problem is?

Maybe it's the same person who caused months of delays on the 2009 Beacon shows, doesn't want to release any more archives, etc.

After all, you can't expect somebody who doesn't want fans to even be able to PAY to hear live Allmans music to have a very friendly attitude about them listening to it for free.

Just an educated guess...


Damn you Marc Quinones!

It still befuddles me that almost 3.5 yrs later, we still await the 40th anniv DVD. Musical malpractice.


to add to the intrigue, the "Wanee Family jam" 4-08 WAS available on bt.



 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 01:19 PM
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 01:41 PM
quote:
Brock has cracked the code, it's actually Marc Quinones calling all the shots

I think he was actually behind the whole autopen fiasco as well....


That explains his signature in my copy and the two totally off subject chapters in Spanish...

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 01:45 PM
I think the logic used to be that electonic trading might result in the use of "lossy" formats like mp3, which could possibly reduce the quality of later generations of the recordings.

But, you can now buy the offical downloads as mp3's, so that logic seems to no longer apply.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 06:11 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]


Kinda like faxing someone , that they've been kicked out of a band ? That kind of communication ?

 

True Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 06:22 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]


I'd like to think that Rob, but I don't.

Let's say there were two ABB factions, one favoring unfettered trading and the other dead-set against any trading. How to compromise those positions? The current policy, allow trading w/ inconveniences attached. Seems like a reasonable solution for all but the most unmotivated fans.

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 07:42 PM
122 ABB shows on Sugermegs for instant free listening.


[Edited on 7/6/2012 by TanDan]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 08:22 PM
I should have mentioned that I was referring to shows in the 90s, mainly the Jack Pearson era.

I'm really not interested in the last 12 years... I do have some ILs,

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 09:08 PM
A real easy money maker that these guys are passing by on. Along with the Moogis concept, they could have opened up all sorts of downloads for a fee. Would have easily turned the whole thing into a success.

The customer (us) needs to be milked while we are alive.

But I can't complain about a band that has provided and allowed so many SBD recordings to be traded. Regardless of how they allow it to be done. I say thanks.

 

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  posted on 7/5/2012 at 10:16 PM
quote:
"Warren, Derek, Oteil, and I think even Jaimoe have no such policy for their solo bands."

Gee, makes you wonder who the problem is?

Maybe it's the same person who caused months of delays on the 2009 Beacon shows, doesn't want to release any more archives, etc.

After all, you can't expect somebody who doesn't want fans to even be able to PAY to hear live Allmans music to have a very friendly attitude about them listening to it for free.

Just an educated guess...


Probably autopenned the order to forbid torrents.

Glad to see that it's finally public knowledge who is responsible for the lack of archive releases.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 12:51 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]


Kinda like faxing someone , that they've been kicked out of a band ? That kind of communication ?


Right. ABB is sure blowin it here....I simply dont have the time to go through the BnP process....

[Edited on 7/6/2012 by piper]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 01:10 PM
quote:
"Warren, Derek, Oteil, and I think even Jaimoe have no such policy for their solo bands."

Gee, makes you wonder who the problem is?

Maybe it's the same person who caused months of delays on the 2009 Beacon shows, doesn't want to release any more archives, etc.

After all, you can't expect somebody who doesn't want fans to even be able to PAY to hear live Allmans music to have a very friendly attitude about them listening to it for free.

Just an educated guess...


It's Gregg. He doesn't allow taping at all of his solo work. All the others do. I think I read once where he begrudgingly agreed to allow old fashioned trading.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 01:12 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]


I strongly doubt that has a thing to do with it. My guess is that this is Gregg's reluctant concession to jam band etiquette. Does anyone know another band that allows taping without limit but only allows snail mail trading?

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 01:13 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]


I'd like to think that Rob, but I don't.

Let's say there were two ABB factions, one favoring unfettered trading and the other dead-set against any trading. How to compromise those positions? The current policy, allow trading w/ inconveniences attached. Seems like a reasonable solution for all but the most unmotivated fans.


Yes. I think you are totally correct. Except I think the non tapin faction is limited to Gregg and (possibly) Butch.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 01:20 PM
quote:
I should have mentioned that I was referring to shows in the 90s, mainly the Jack Pearson era.

So find a member of our community that has some of those shows and have them Dropbox a couple to you. Easy Peasy.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 02:30 PM
The ABB should just setup a torrent site and charge a minimal fee to join and to download shows. All of the money would all go to operating the site and to the band for it' music.

There have been other bands that do not allow electronic trading and with working with the fans they have been able to work out the problems and allow torrenting. This is something that should be discussed with the band and it's management ASAP.

 

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  posted on 7/6/2012 at 03:50 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I don't understand how electronic trading/downloading hurts the ABB when they already allow trading by mail. Sure, illegally pirating official releases -understood. But, for example a Jack Pearson or Johnny Neel era show - there are no official releases. Now if I find someone online who has one of these shows, email them to initiate dialogue, mail them blank CDs and postage and get a Jack Pearson show back - in the band's eyes that's fine. But to post that same Jack Pearson show online and let people download it without all the other steps - that's out of bounds? I have no clue what sense that could possibly make. All it does is antagonize the hardcore fans who want to seek out Jack Pearson era ABB shows.

It's the neither fish nor fowl aspect of the policy that bothers me. If they decided taping was hurting their brand or revenue generation ability somehow and just banned taping and tape trading - fine. But if taping and trading are allowed - what difference the medium?
If they would release a Jack Pearson era show - I'd buy it. But they won't - so there you have it.



I'm pretty sure (an educated guess?) that they prefer "the old way"óblanks and postage, etc.óbecause it stimulates communication between people.


[Edited on 7/5/2012 by Rob_in_NC]


I strongly doubt that has a thing to do with it. My guess is that this is Gregg's reluctant concession to jam band etiquette. Does anyone know another band that allows taping without limit but only allows snail mail trading?


At one time, that was Hot Tuna's policy (mail OK, not digital). Someone posted on a message board (iirc arvchive.org) why there weren't any Tuna shows.
It was answered by none other than Hot Tuna's manager (and Jorma's wife), who basically said, taping is a privilege not a right, trading between friends was OK and at least snail mail required some communication instead of sending it out to the masses.
Since then, Jorma has dissallowed any taping, the official word being this is how he makes his living, it doens't make sense to give music away, etc.

 
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