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Author: Subject: Jack White Is the Coolest, Weirdest, Savviest Rock Star of Our Time

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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 01:52 PM
very interesting article about jack white

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/magazine/jack-white-is-the-savviest-rock- star-of-our-time.html?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043

 
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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 02:08 PM
quote:
very interesting article about jack white

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/magazine/jack-white-is-the-savviest-rock- star-of-our-time.html?partner=EXCITE&ei=5043



Read this article last night, it is a great read.

I know Jack is not everybody's cup of tea for various reasons, but one thing you've got to give the man, at least he's thinking about music, and trying to come up with new and innovative ways of creating and presenting it.

I'm fascinated with his new idea of using 2 bands (one all female, the other all male) to tour this new record. Each playing on different nights, and neither one of them allowed to listen to the other, so the bands can progress live in their own direction, at their own pace.

 

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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 04:58 PM
Gotta give him props for being very prolific as well as not being afraid to take risks and change direction at the drop of a hat.

I like his stuff with the Raconteurs and Dead Weather more than his other stuff, although I do like some of stuff with the White Stripes as well - just not all of it.

I realize he has many zealous fans, but I gotta say that his recent performance on SNL was possibly the worst I have seen by a major talent. I almost thought he did it as a bad joke or was trying to see how far he could push the envelope with his hardcore fan base - he wouldn't be the first to do that. But I really didn't get it all, went right over my head. But again, just because I didn't like it doesn't mean others may not have. I just know the guy is a pretty talented musician and is capable of way better than he delivered.

Just my .02 - your mileage may vary....

 

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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 05:16 PM
Jack White Is the Coolest, Weirdest, Savviest Rock Star of Our Time


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Imho, Waaay over rated.

 

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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 05:45 PM
quote:
Gotta give him props for being very prolific as well as not being afraid to take risks and change direction at the drop of a hat.

I like his stuff with the Raconteurs and Dead Weather more than his other stuff, although I do like some of stuff with the White Stripes as well - just not all of it.

I realize he has many zealous fans, but I gotta say that his recent performance on SNL was possibly the worst I have seen by a major talent. I almost thought he did it as a bad joke or was trying to see how far he could push the envelope with his hardcore fan base - he wouldn't be the first to do that. But I really didn't get it all, went right over my head. But again, just because I didn't like it doesn't mean others may not have. I just know the guy is a pretty talented musician and is capable of way better than he delivered.

Just my .02 - your mileage may vary....


I agree with everything you said, Rich, especially about the not being afraid to take risks.

 

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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 05:45 PM
Jack is indeed very cool, savvy and weird, and I tend to admire all those qualities. I just wish his actual music was better, and when you're a musician, that's an important piece of the puzzle.

It's a shame that he relies too much on gimmicks, like this one mentioned above....

"I'm fascinated with his new idea of using 2 bands (one all female, the other all male) to tour this new record. Each playing on different nights, and neither one of them allowed to listen to the other, so the bands can progress live in their own direction, at their own pace."

With all due respect, that sounds like a terrible idea, and a good example of Jack putting the "concept" before the actual music. Just like it might have been a cool "concept" to have a female drummer and pretend she's your sister, but in reality, she was an inept hack and the music suffered as a result.

One all male band and one all female band? Seriously? How about just assembling the best musicians you can, regardless of gender, and play the music as well as you can? No, too easy, not enough of a gimmick.

The Raconteurs stuff was pretty good, and "Seven Nation Army" has been a worthwhile addition to the repertoire of marching bands everywhere, but I feel like Jack White is very overrated.

 
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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 09:32 PM
My son Derek is a big fan of Jack.

I'm 50/50 on his music.

Take it or leave it.

 

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  posted on 4/6/2012 at 11:06 PM
quote:
"I'm fascinated with his new idea of using 2 bands (one all female, the other all male) to tour this new record. Each playing on different nights, and neither one of them allowed to listen to the other, so the bands can progress live in their own direction, at their own pace."

With all due respect, that sounds like a terrible idea, and a good example of Jack putting the "concept" before the actual music. Just like it might have been a cool "concept" to have a female drummer and pretend she's your sister, but in reality, she was an inept hack and the music suffered as a result.

One all male band and one all female band? Seriously? How about just assembling the best musicians you can, regardless of gender, and play the music as well as you can? No, too easy, not enough of a gimmick.



Well yeah, he is serious, because he's actually doing it, whether anybody likes it or not, or if it succeeds or falls flat on its face. Unless you've already heard or seen any of this, I'll mark you down as undecided.

He was working on this music long before the 2 seperate band ideas came about, so I guess its the style and the presentation you have a problem with, in addition to the actual new music, which only 2 cuts have been heard.

Like I said its not everybody's cup of tea, just like its not everybody's cup of tea when the ABB uses the gimmick of bringing guest players on stage most nights of the Beacon run.
Why can't the band just play, work those songs to perfection, and skip all the guest horn section, sax, harmonica, guitar players and female vocalists? Too easy to sit back and let someone else carry some of the load I guess. I wonder how many great moments fans might have missed if the ABB hadn't brought those guest players on stage. Some actually didn't work, and some worked brilliantly, but either way, I'm glad the ABB is open minded enough to try things differently.

Sometimes "concepts", especially in presenting music, that seem like terrible ideas, end up actually being pretty big deals, and become part of music history.

 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 12:43 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/jack-white-sixteen-saltines_n_1405 650.html

Heard this song on the radio this week. Not a fan. I just don't get this guy's popularity.

 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 03:24 AM
quote:
Gotta give him props for being very prolific as well as not being afraid to take risks and change direction at the drop of a hat.

I like his stuff with the Raconteurs and Dead Weather more than his other stuff, although I do like some of stuff with the White Stripes as well - just not all of it.

I realize he has many zealous fans, but I gotta say that his recent performance on SNL was possibly the worst I have seen by a major talent. I almost thought he did it as a bad joke or was trying to see how far he could push the envelope with his hardcore fan base - he wouldn't be the first to do that. But I really didn't get it all, went right over my head. But again, just because I didn't like it doesn't mean others may not have. I just know the guy is a pretty talented musician and is capable of way better than he delivered.

Just my .02 - your mileage may vary....


Hey Rich,

Same here. I gave the White Stripes stuff a serious try but also found myself liking just certain songs and thinking the rest was just OK. Never really grabbed me.

On the other hand, I found that I was more impressed with The Raconteurs, especially the second album. Some nice songs there.

Did not catch his SNL appearance though.

 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 07:30 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Imho, Waaay over rated.


YUP!!

 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 10:08 AM
That really is a fun article. I get a kick out of Jack White. He keeps things fresh and keeps moving on.
 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 10:22 AM
"I guess its the style and the presentation you have a problem with"

This is a fair statement.

Jack has talent, but it seems like every chance he gets, he puts style over substance.

"Like I said its not everybody's cup of tea, just like its not everybody's cup of tea when the ABB uses the gimmick of bringing guest players on stage most nights of the Beacon run."

Sorry, but that is apples and oranges compared to Jack's stunts. You're reaching there.

"Sometimes "concepts", especially in presenting music, that seem like terrible ideas, end up actually being pretty big deals, and become part of music history."

Maybe so, but for every "Dylan goes electric" there are a dozen "Let's have Meg play drums."

This seems more like a "Let's have Meg play drums" level of idea.

 
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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 01:28 PM
quote:
"I guess its the style and the presentation you have a problem with"

This is a fair statement.

Jack has talent, but it seems like every chance he gets, he puts style over substance.

"Like I said its not everybody's cup of tea, just like its not everybody's cup of tea when the ABB uses the gimmick of bringing guest players on stage most nights of the Beacon run."

Sorry, but that is apples and oranges compared to Jack's stunts. You're reaching there.

"Sometimes "concepts", especially in presenting music, that seem like terrible ideas, end up actually being pretty big deals, and become part of music history."

Maybe so, but for every "Dylan goes electric" there are a dozen "Let's have Meg play drums."

This seems more like a "Let's have Meg play drums" level of idea.


Rob, I appreciate your considered response.
We've had this discussion before about Meg White, and agree she's no Gene Krupa or Neil Peart, but again, that's not whats called for playing with the Stripes. And she's not the act, but Jack is, imo.

I would be curious to know what you think of Patrick Carney of The Black Keys.

While I don't mind opinions, especially well thought out, as yours is, its the little extra elbow, the shot after whistle, that gets my back up a bit.
I just take it as its music, its not suppose to be bad, just some you like, more than others. I think we all can pretty fiercely rip things we don't like, but I don't see what that would accomplish.
I could rip the Grateful Dead a new one, but what purpose would that serve but to antagonize other folks that dig them? So I just tread carefully when it comes to criticizing musicians and other bands.

Funny you mention Dylan, I was thinking about him last night, as well as punk music, after reading your initial post. I don't think anybody in the punk movement was exactly prolific on their instruments, but its feeling, attitude, and the attempt to change the status quo that made it influential, for a short period.

And of course, dozens of other "concepts" like
Whoever thought that recording obscure Negro bluesmen and their crude tunes was a good idea, initially? I'm glad they did though, because a lot of the music we like, influenced the ABB and others, came from those recordings.
And whoever, but Skydog, thought that 2 drummer idea would work?
Surely not the first guy that was initially playing drums.

My experience is catching the Stripes in club in NJ playing to 800 in 2001, 2 years later filling up the Roseland (3,000?), 2 years later at Midtown Music Fest infront of 15 to 18,000, then 2 years after that at a sold out MSG show with little in support (Grinderman, Porter Waggoner).

So I just reflect on the club gig, and then 4 years later playing to a big crowd in Atlanta, to MSG, and am amazed how it went from where hundreds of bands have been, clubs, to where it ended up, headlining festivals and sports arenas. So theres got to be something there, imo.

Oddly enough, I quite enjoyed the Raconteurs stuff, but not much of the Dead Weather.
Anyway just thought I'd lay that out there to get you to know where I'm coming from here, and mean nothing personal about any of it, just exchanging views.







[Edited on 4/7/2012 by Efus]

 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 03:02 PM
quote:
I would be curious to know what you think of Patrick Carney of The Black Keys.


I know you didn't ask me but from a technical standpoint Patrick Carney is an awful drummer, barely above amateur status. He is nothing but a basher with little or no sense of time, and VERY sloppy in his "technique" - but of course his job with the BK is not to be a timekeeper. He is strictly an onstage foil for Auerbach, much the same way Meg is to Jack in the WS. In that respect just about any other musician could fill that role.

Frankly Carney really lucked into a goldmine with the BK. Obviously he is half the band and I read that he they rehearsed at his place when they started out, so he is just as responsible for their success but if he had to find employment strictly on the basis of his drumming "skills" he'd starve to death. The first time I heard him play, which was on their Live At The Crystal Ballroom DVD I was appalled. I couldn't tell if he just couldn't hear what Auerbach was doing or if could but just didn't give a sh!t and decided to just do whatever he wanted to do. Fair enough, but that isn't drumming. At least not my definition of what a drummer is supposed to do.

People can discount musicianship but it IS important. It's not THE most important thing but when drummers, especially, lack talent, ability, and training it hurts the whole band. A LOT. I really don't think Carney knows the difference between an open roll and a closed roll or a paradiddle and that's fine within the context of the Black Keys. But to put him in the same category as say, Billy Cobham of Jeff Porcaro (RIP) or even Butch Trucks - or Jaimoe, for that matter, would just be wrong.

 

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  posted on 4/7/2012 at 03:19 PM
quote:
quote:
"I guess its the style and the presentation you have a problem with"

This is a fair statement.

Jack has talent, but it seems like every chance he gets, he puts style over substance.

"Like I said its not everybody's cup of tea, just like its not everybody's cup of tea when the ABB uses the gimmick of bringing guest players on stage most nights of the Beacon run."

Sorry, but that is apples and oranges compared to Jack's stunts. You're reaching there.

"Sometimes "concepts", especially in presenting music, that seem like terrible ideas, end up actually being pretty big deals, and become part of music history."

Maybe so, but for every "Dylan goes electric" there are a dozen "Let's have Meg play drums."

This seems more like a "Let's have Meg play drums" level of idea.


Rob, I appreciate your considered response.
We've had this discussion before about Meg White, and agree she's no Gene Krupa or Neil Peart, but again, that's not whats called for playing with the Stripes. And she's not the act, but Jack is, imo.

I would be curious to know what you think of Patrick Carney of The Black Keys.

While I don't mind opinions, especially well thought out, as yours is, its the little extra elbow, the shot after whistle, that gets my back up a bit.
I just take it as its music, its not suppose to be bad, just some you like, more than others. I think we all can pretty fiercely rip things we don't like, but I don't see what that would accomplish.
I could rip the Grateful Dead a new one, but what purpose would that serve but to antagonize other folks that dig them? So I just tread carefully when it comes to criticizing musicians and other bands.

Funny you mention Dylan, I was thinking about him last night, as well as punk music, after reading your initial post. I don't think anybody in the punk movement was exactly prolific on their instruments, but its feeling, attitude, and the attempt to change the status quo that made it influential, for a short period.

And of course, dozens of other "concepts" like
Whoever thought that recording obscure Negro bluesmen and their crude tunes was a good idea, initially? I'm glad they did though, because a lot of the music we like, influenced the ABB and others, came from those recordings.
And whoever, but Skydog, thought that 2 drummer idea would work?
Surely not the first guy that was initially playing drums.

My experience is catching the Stripes in club in NJ playing to 800 in 2001, 2 years later filling up the Roseland (3,000?), 2 years later at Midtown Music Fest infront of 15 to 18,000, then 2 years after that at a sold out MSG show with little in support (Grinderman, Porter Waggoner).

So I just reflect on the club gig, and then 4 years later playing to a big crowd in Atlanta, to MSG, and am amazed how it went from where hundreds of bands have been, clubs, to where it ended up, headlining festivals and sports arenas. So theres got to be something there, imo.

Oddly enough, I quite enjoyed the Raconteurs stuff, but not much of the Dead Weather.
Anyway just thought I'd lay that out there to get you to know where I'm coming from here, and mean nothing personal about any of it, just exchanging views.







[Edited on 4/7/2012 by Efus]


You make great points, efus, and I agree with a lot of them. If you took emotion and passion out of music and were left with just technical skill, what would you have? Some pretty boring sh!t, for sure.

I don't want to speak for Rob, but I know he IS a drummer so he views players like Meg from completely different place than a non-drummer would. I played too - took lessons from over 3 years when I was younger and had to quit for financial reasons but because I learned from a professional jazz drummer based in Chicago (Jake Jerger - not well known but those who were in that world there knew him, people like Louie Bellson, for ex.) and he was very critical of sloppy or lazy students. If you didn't practice, you dreaded going to your lesson, because he would rip you for it. He was a lot harder on those students had natural ability and didn't cultivate and work at it than he was on those (like me) who weren't very skilled. To him it was a waste - a travesty, really - if you had something others didn't and just threw it away. I think anyone, musician or not, can understand that.

Some drummers get the most out of their ability and maximize their potential. And you can tell. Others suck and don't care to get better. That's complacency and acceptance of mediocracy, and you can usually tell that too, and anyone who pays to see someone practicing their craft or profession has the right to feel ripped off if that "professional" doesn't respect his profession - or his "customers" - enough to work to get better at it. Lots of people would KILL to be able to earn a living playing music but just don't have the talent or ever got the shot to do it. And when they see people who have it in the palm of their of hands disrespect it by doing as little as possible to get by, at the least they are disappointed. I know I am. And they lose respect for that artist.

 

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  posted on 4/8/2012 at 08:16 AM
Efus, thanks for your considered response to my considered response Are you sure this is the Internet? I don't think it's supposed to work that way.

I do think Jack has real talent and wasn't just saying "he sucks." My wife is a big fan and I know many people who enjoy his work. However, this thread really hits on exactly what I don't like about him, which is the interest in "style" or "presentation" over the music.

To be fair, the fact that I am a drummer does make the Meg White thing grate on me. I realize she wasn't the star of the show, but she pretty much ruined that band, at least for me. Whatever enjoyment I might have gotten out of Jack's distorted blues riffs was constantly interrupted by thoughts of "My God, what is she doing? Why doesn't he get a REAL drummer?"

The answer? Because it was "cool" to have a female drummer and pretend she's your sister. Nobody will ever convince me Meg was in that band for her drumming ability. It was strictly a marketing ploy.

When the ABB have Clapton play with them at the Beacon, the music benefits. When you pick somebody for your band based just on their gender or their "look" the music suffers. To me, that is the difference between the two "gimmicks." Not all gimmicks are created equal.

To me, it's all about the music. I don't mind that Derek stands still on stage when he plays and doesn't "play to the audience" or have a lot of "stage presence" because the music is what I'm focused on.

With Jack, while he certainly puts a lot of thought into the music, I think there are other things on his mind that distract him from what he should be focusing on, like what outfits the band should wear and what color their hair should be. I guess that is all I was trying to say.

 
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  posted on 4/8/2012 at 09:52 AM
Meg was,unquestionably,a gimmick.

Although live she didn't distract me.

Saw them live in a minor league ballpark and was blown away by Jack...his range of sounds,versatility,and overall ability blew me away..the music on the pa before the show,Elmore James,got me interested to hear what Jack had to say musically...was glad my older son turned me on to Jack....

Saw Jack next with The Racontours and was also very impressed albeit differently than by The Stripes who I saw again and loved...was upset that was their last tour...Meg was a gimmick that somehow worked,although I can see that drummers might not dig it...

Loved It Might Get Loud.....showed off Jack's bluesy roots

Very eager to hear the new solo Jack album and very curious to hear the new album....

[Edited on 4/8/2012 by dadof2]

 

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  posted on 4/8/2012 at 10:10 AM
Rob, guess we don't quite have the hang of this Internet thing yet, lol.

It was fairly important that Bro mentioned you were a drummer, so that gives me some perspective as to where the pointed criticism of the drummer is coming from.
As a self-taught guitar player, who plays badly, I've always favored the players who play with more emotion, than more technical style players.

Good exchange of views.

 

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  posted on 4/8/2012 at 10:12 AM
quote:

As a self-taught guitar player, who plays badly, I've always favored the players who play with more emotion, than more technical style .


Ditto

 

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  posted on 4/8/2012 at 05:22 PM
quote:
Jack White Is the Coolest, Weirdest, Savviest Rock Star of Our Time


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Imho, Waaay over rated.


100% agree and in no way is he a rock star, sorry his music is at best a experiment but to each his own I don't care for it and don't buy it ...

 
 


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