Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread >Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Grateful Dead Question

Zen Peach





Posts: 26342
(26353 all sites)
Registered: 8/12/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2012 at 11:56 PM
After Brent died who did they audition for the keyboard spot? Was wondering this cause the other day I watched the classic albums dvd for the Band and for some reason I wondered if Garth Hudson auditioned for the keyboardist spot in the Dead that and would he have been a good fit.

 

____________________

 
Replies:

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9094
(9093 all sites)
Registered: 8/16/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 12:25 AM
I remember them using Bruce Hornsby quite a bit, and he was a quick study, and seemed to fit nicely. I dont think they ever considered Garth?, he was working with [The Band ] at that point.

[Edited on 1/13/2012 by pops42]

 

____________________

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3911
(3918 all sites)
Registered: 11/19/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 12:37 AM
3 keyboardists were auditioned....

Ex-Dixie Dregs keysman T. Lavitz
Jefferson Starship keyboardist Pete Sears,
and Vince Welnick of The Tubes/Todd Rundgren

Two other were allegedly offered auditions, but turned
the Dead down...
Merl Saunders
and Ian McLagan

I don't know if this is true, but I read somewhere that they wanted
Pete Sears, but chose Vince. Pete couldn't sing. So allegedly they
chose Vince more for his vocal abilities than his keyboard abilities.

[Edited on 1/13/2012 by woodsdweller]

 

____________________


 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11252
(11270 all sites)
Registered: 3/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 02:46 AM
quote:
3 keyboardists were auditioned....

Ex-Dixie Dregs keysman T. Lavitz
Jefferson Starship keyboardist Pete Sears,
and Vince Welnick of The Tubes/Todd Rundgren

Two other were allegedly offered auditions, but turned
the Dead down...
Merl Saunders
and Ian McLagan

I don't know if this is true, but I read somewhere that they wanted
Pete Sears, but chose Vince. Pete couldn't sing. So allegedly they
chose Vince more for his vocal abilities than his keyboard abilities.

[Edited on 1/13/2012 by woodsdweller]


They did quite a few gigs with both Bruce and Vince together, although the spotlight was clearly on Bruce during those shows, for good reason. I think he also may have been offered the job but he preferred to be a "special guest" and agreed to do at least one tour because Jerry clearly was very fond of him and he was just getting his health back after one of his near-death episodes and the band thought it would be good for Jerry to have Bruce on board.

 

____________________
"Love Like You've Never Been Hurt"-Satchel Paige

 

Peach Bud



Karma:
Posts: 22
(22 all sites)
Registered: 9/28/2011
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 08:45 AM
There is a good write up on http://www.dead.net/ covering all the keyboard players for the history of the Grateful Dead. It doesnt talk about the audition period, just the attributes of each. For my .02 the best was Brent, really liked his vocals
 

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 122
(122 all sites)
Registered: 1/8/2011
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 09:19 AM
quote:
3 keyboardists were auditioned....

Ex-Dixie Dregs keysman T. Lavitz
Jefferson Starship keyboardist Pete Sears,
and Vince Welnick of The Tubes/Todd Rundgren

Two other were allegedly offered auditions, but turned
the Dead down...
Merl Saunders
and Ian McLagan

I don't know if this is true, but I read somewhere that they wanted
Pete Sears, but chose Vince. Pete couldn't sing. So allegedly they
chose Vince more for his vocal abilities than his keyboard abilities.

[Edited on 1/13/2012 by woodsdweller]


Too bad that Merl Saunders turned it down; he always seemed to have a positive effect on Garcia.

Yeah, I understand how vocal abilities would have been an important qualification as well. I guess Phil Lesh wasn't doing any back-up vocals at the time? So, without a singing keyboard player, the band would have lost a good deal in the vocal department.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 10:13 AM
Toss in what I've read, I think I've read just about every Dead book and online interview I can find...

Jerry really connected musically with T Lavitz, but there were no vocals there. Vocals again were the issue with Pete Sears.

Bruce Hornsby worked for a few reasons. He had already played in a Dead cover band in his formulative years and had a solid grasp on the material, but Welnick had well over 100 songs to learn in about a month or two. He also clicked musically with Jerry, and IMO, was the last one in the band to really push Jerry. Welnick resented Hornsby's presence from the get-go. If one goes and listens to the Summer and Fall '90 tours, there are times when it seems that Hornsby and Welnick were just working out when to play when, and other times where it sounds like Welnick is trying to play over or upstage Hornsby. To my ears this happens a few times during the Fall '90 MSG run (the 9/20/90 show is stellar, the best China>Rider of that era, IMO).

Hornsby eventually left for two reasons, the first one being that he didn't like how formulaic and rigid everything was, in particular the setlists. He'd suggest things like "let's open with Drums>Space," or "let's open with Watchtower," only to be told things like, "No, Bruce, that's a 2nd set after Space song." He'd drop teases often, especially Dark Star teases, sometimes in the first set. It was also a time when Jerry's Persian usage was on again, off again and by that point no one in the Dead family would touch the subject, but one show after a $hitty 1st set from Jerry during the break Hornsby went to Jerry's dressing room (they all had separate rooms by then) and called him out on it, Jerry told him "You don't understand 25 years of burnout, man." It was never really quoted but inferred that Hosrnsby eventually left because he wasn't going to hang around and watch Jerry slowly kill himself.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1907
(1909 all sites)
Registered: 3/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 10:58 AM
I actually had the pleasure of talking specifically to both Vince and Bobby in person about this many years ago (separately) and Dennis McNally.

I think what's already been said is pretty accurate, but the #1 reason they chose Vince was that he was the only one who didn't lose the 7 timing during the jams on "Estimated Prophet".

In fact Bruce told them upfront that he could fill in and could join for a while, but it was never going to be permanent. He also did complain about the formula and Jerry's ability to not be able to stay clean, which he found depressing.

I do think if those 2 things would have been different Bruce would have kept playing as much as possible.

Definitely in the Dead organization Bruce was considered a member of the band.

it is also true that Vince's voice had a lot to do with him getting in too. But Vince told me he really didn't sing much before the dead. Just a little bit of backing here and there. So Vince was really learning that side of things as he went along.

Vince gets too much of a bad rap sometimes. He obviously had some very serious issues which hurt him and those around him a lot. - But a lot of what people complain about is what the band themselves wanted. I don't think Vince was ever trying to upstage Hornsby, in fact Bob, Vince & Dennis all stated that Vince was encouraged to let loose and play as much as possible. In fact if anything, sometimes I feel that Vince wasn't given enough space to even try that much while Bruce was there... (although I usually really love the Bruce/Vince era, especially summer '91)

The other thing to keep in mind too is that Bob Bralove was working behind the scenes controlling what sounds Vince would be playing at any given moment.

I think around 94-95 Vince really finds a home musically with the band. Particularly with piano work on songs like "Lazy River Road". And of course while Bruce was in the band, Vince would rarely even get a chance to use a "piano" sound, as Bruce was actually playing a real piano most of the time.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 11:06 AM
quote:
I don't think Vince was ever trying to upstage Hornsby, in fact Bob, Vince & Dennis all stated that Vince was encouraged to let loose and play as much as possible.


Perhaps upstage was too harsh a word, yeah.

quote:
although I usually really love the Bruce/Vince era, especially summer '91


I'm seriously not biased because it was in my hometown and I was there, but I really think 6/25/91 might be one of the most underrated GD shows ever.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 15986
(15990 all sites)
Registered: 9/24/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 11:09 AM
There is stuff to love everywhere. I am surprised at how much of the latter years of the band shows I enjoy.

 

____________________

 

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 122
(122 all sites)
Registered: 1/8/2011
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 11:17 AM
I was surprised that Ian McLagan was asked to audition - seems like a strange choice. Had to look up what the story was there, and this is what I found from an interview with him.

quote:
It is all down to really having fun. I have been asked to play on different people's records over the years that I have turned down and I just told them I was busy but they were people I didn't particularly like. Even if I was broke I just couldn't do it. I was invited to audition for the Grateful Dead and I had never really listened to them much. I bought one of their records and my wife came home to find me sitting there in the dark with a very sad face and she said, "What's the matter?" I said, "Oh nothing I have just been listening to this band. I just can't bear them so I couldnít do it." The potential was huge amounts of money and she said, "Mac, you can't do it. If it puts you in that sort of mood, forget it!"

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 26342
(26353 all sites)
Registered: 8/12/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 11:22 AM
Didnt Vince want to add songs from the early years that havent been played since the late 60s or early 70s?

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 11:49 AM
quote:
Didnt Vince want to add songs from the early years that havent been played since the late 60s or early 70s?


I remember reading that they tried some things, like "The Eleven," which according to Jerry "just didn't work musically." They also soundchecked "St. Stephen" but apparently it was a hot mess and the idea was dropped rather quickly.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11252
(11270 all sites)
Registered: 3/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 02:41 PM
quote:
quote:
Didnt Vince want to add songs from the early years that havent been played since the late 60s or early 70s?


I remember reading that they tried some things, like "The Eleven," which according to Jerry "just didn't work musically." They also soundchecked "St. Stephen" but apparently it was a hot mess and the idea was dropped rather quickly.




Personally I'm glad the '85-'95 era Dead didn't try to tackle Live Dead era stuff like St. Stephen and The Eleven. To be charitable, it would have been a train wreck. Jerry didn't have the right guitar tone during that period, nor the dexterity, frankly. It would have been sad and depressing.

Another thing I've noticed about that period is how different the drums sound. If you go back and listen to, say, the Fillmore East '70 shows, Kreutzmann and Mickey's drums just CRACK! They sound SO much sharper and have much more attack sonically. After about '85 or so, the drums got much more of a "round" sound, more passive, almost like they stopped tuning their snares. At times you almost can't even tell they're playing snares as part of their kits. That wasn't just the Dead, however....you hear that trend throughout most of the music biz during that time, especially with the advent of "electronic" drums, which almost ruined drumming altogether.

One exception to that snare thing was, or course, the ABB. And Charlie Watts. And Max Weinberg - although Max did use some enhancement during the BITUSA tour. Always could hear his snare, though.

 

____________________
"Love Like You've Never Been Hurt"-Satchel Paige

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1142
(1142 all sites)
Registered: 4/16/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/13/2012 at 11:23 PM
Different bands with each keyboard player. Pigpen was the original frontman, so it's hard to argue they were ever better. I was at the Kezar Stadium show in March of 1975 when Keith was joined by Merle Saunders and Ned Lagin, making 3 keyboards. Best performance I ever saw them do.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1975-03-23.sbd.miller.110126.flac16

[Edited on 1/14/2012 by griff]

 

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 102
(102 all sites)
Registered: 8/18/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/14/2012 at 04:20 PM
quote:
Different bands with each keyboard player. Pigpen was the original frontman, so it's hard to argue they were ever better. I was at the Kezar Stadium show in March of 1975 when Keith was joined by Merle Saunders and Ned Lagin, making 3 keyboards. Best performance I ever saw them do.


That performance, excluding Johnny B. Goode, was included on the bonus disc for the Beyond Description box set. It absolutley smokes.

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1907
(1909 all sites)
Registered: 3/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/15/2012 at 09:54 PM
quote:
quote:
I don't think Vince was ever trying to upstage Hornsby, in fact Bob, Vince & Dennis all stated that Vince was encouraged to let loose and play as much as possible.


Perhaps upstage was too harsh a word, yeah.

quote:
although I usually really love the Bruce/Vince era, especially summer '91


I'm seriously not biased because it was in my hometown and I was there, but I really think 6/25/91 might be one of the most underrated GD shows ever.


Hey! 6-25-91 is one of my all-time favs... no you are not biased. I LOVE that show!

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1907
(1909 all sites)
Registered: 3/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/15/2012 at 09:56 PM
quote:
Didnt Vince want to add songs from the early years that havent been played since the late 60s or early 70s?


Yes. He told me that he suggested "The Golden Road (To Unlimited Devotion)" and Jerry said "yeah, we can do it if you sing it." Jerry just didn't want to sing it.

He was behind brining back "Here Comes Sunshine".

 

Peach Master



Karma:
Posts: 968
(969 all sites)
Registered: 7/10/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/15/2012 at 10:20 PM
I wish Pete Sears would have gotten the gig. He is a great player, and you get a chance to checkout Moonalice he plays keys ,bass and sings. Does a sweet rendition of Stella Blue so the vocal thing seems weird. Itís all water under the bridge now, but is very interesting to look back on. BTW after loosing Brent I donít think the band ever removed (musically that is) he was a big part of their sound IMHO

 

____________________

 
 


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com