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Author: Subject: What Everyone Is Too Polite To Say About Steve Jobs

Ultimate Peach





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  posted on 10/10/2011 at 11:44 PM
I can't stand when people gush about a public figure after they die, without mentioning the full story. While I am sad that the man died early, his full story should be told.


What Everyone Is Too Polite to Say About Steve Jobs


In the days after Steve Jobs' death, friends and colleagues have, in customary fashion, been sharing their fondest memories of the Apple co-founder. He's been hailed as "a genius" and "the greatest CEO of his generation" by pundits and tech journalists. But a great man's reputation can withstand a full accounting. And, truth be told, Jobs could be terrible to people, and his impact on the world was not uniformly positive.

We mentioned much of the good Jobs did during his career earlier. His accomplishments were far-reaching and impossible to easily summarize. But here's one way of looking at the scope of his achievement: It's the dream of any entrepreneur to effect change in one industry. Jobs transformed half a dozen of them forever, from personal computers to phones to animation to music to publishing to video games. He was a polymath, a skilled motivator, a decisive judge, a farsighted tastemaker, an excellent showman, and a gifted strategist.

One thing he wasn't, though, was perfect. Indeed there were things Jobs did while at Apple that were deeply disturbing. Rude, dismissive, hostile, spiteful: Apple employees—the ones not bound by confidentiality agreements—have had a different story to tell over the years about Jobs and the bullying, manipulation and fear that followed him around Apple. Jobs contributed to global problems, too. Apple's success has been built literally on the backs of Chinese workers, many of them children and all of them enduring long shifts and the specter of brutal penalties for mistakes. And, for all his talk of enabling individual expression, Jobs imposed paranoid rules that centralized control of who could say what on his devices and in his company.

It's particularly important to take stock of Jobs' flaws right now. His successor, Tim Cook, has the opportunity to set a new course for the company, and to establish his own style of leadership. And, thanks to Apple's success, students of Jobs' approach to leadership have never been so numerous in Silicon Valley. He was worshipped and emulated plenty when he was alive; in death, Jobs will be even more of an icon.

After celebrating Jobs' achievements, we should talk freely about the dark side of Jobs and the company he co-founded. Here, then, is a catalog of lowlights:

Censorship and Authoritarianism



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The internet allowed people around the world to express themselves more freely and more easily. With the App Store, Apple reversed that progress. The iPhone and iPad constitute the most popular platform for handheld computerizing in America, key venues for media and software. But to put anything on the devices, you need Apple's permission. And the company wields its power aggressively.

In the name of protecting children from the evils of erotica — "freedom from porn" — and adults from one another, Jobs has banned from being installed on his devices gay art, gay travel guides, political cartoons, sexy pictures, Congressional candidate pamphlets, political caricature, Vogue fashion spreads, systems invented by the opposition, and other things considered morally suspect.

Apple's devices have connected us to a world of information. But they don't permit a full expression of ideas. Indeed, the people Apple supposedly serves — "the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers" — have been particularly put out by Jobs' lockdown. That America's most admired company has followed such an un-American path, and imposed centralized restrictions typical of the companies it once mocked, is deeply disturbing.

But then Jobs never seemed comfortable with the idea of fully empowered workers or a truly free press. Inside Apple, there is a culture of fear and control around communication; Apple's "Worldwide Loyalty Team" specializes in hunting down leakers, confiscating mobile phones and searching computers.

Apple applies coercive tactics to the press, as well. Its first response to stories it doesn't like is typically manipulation and badgering, for example, threatening to withhold access to events and executives. Next, it might leak a contradictory story.

But Apple doesn't stop there. It has a fearsome legal team that is not above annihilating smaller prey. In 2005, for example, the company sued 19-year-old blogger Nick Ciarelli for correctly reporting, prior to launch, the existence of the Mac Mini. The company did not back down until Ciarelli agreed to close his blog ThinkSecret forever. Last year, after our sister blog Gizmodo ran a video of a prototype iPhone 4, Apple complained to law enforcement, who promptly raided an editor's home.

And just last month, in the creepiest example of Apple's fascist tendencies, two of Apple's private security agents searched the home of a San Francisco man and threatened him and his family with immigration trouble as part of an scramble for a missing iPhone prototype. The man said the security agents were accompanied by plainclothes police and did not identify themselves as private citizens, lending the impression they were law enforcement officers.

Sweatshops, Child Labor and Human Rights

Apple's factories in China have regularly employed young teenagers and people below the legal work age of 16, made people work grueling hours, and have tried to cover all this up. That's according to Apple's own 2010 report about its factories in China. In 2011, Apple reported that its child labor problem had worsened.

In 2010, the Daily Mail managed to get a reporter inside a facility in China that manufactures products for Apple and the paper shared a bit about what life is like:


With the complex at peak production, operating 24 hours a day, seven days a week to meet the global demand for Apple phones and computers, a typical day begins with the Chinese national anthem being played over loudspeakers, with the words: 'Arise, arise, arise, millions of hearts with one mind.'

As part of this Orwellian control, the public address system constantly relays propaganda, such as how many products have been made; how a new basketball court has been built for the workers; and why workers should 'value efficiency every minute, every second'.

With other company slogans painted on workshop walls - including exhortations to 'achieve goals unless the sun no longer rises' and to 'gather all of the elite and Foxconn will get stronger and stronger' - the employees work up to 15-hour shifts.

Down narrow, prison-like corridors, they sleep in cramped rooms in triple-decked bunk beds to save space, with simple bamboo mats for mattresses.

Despite summer temperatures hitting 35 degrees, with 90 per cent humidity, there is no air-conditioning. Workers say some dormitories house more than 40 people and are infested with ants and cockroaches, with the noise and stench making it difficult to sleep.

A company can be judged by how it treats its lowliest workers. It sets an example for the rest of the company or in Apple's case, the world.



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In Person and At Home

Before he was deposed from Apple the first time around, Jobs already had a reputation internally for acting like a tyrant. Jobs regularly belittled people, swore at them, and pressured them until they reached their breaking point. In the pursuit of greatness he cast aside politeness and empathy. His verbal abuse never stopped. Just last month Fortune reported about a half-hour "public humiliation" Jobs doled out to one Apple team:


"Can anyone tell me what MobileMe is supposed to do?" Having received a satisfactory answer, he continued, "So why the **** doesn't it do that?"

"You've tarnished Apple's reputation," he told them. "You should hate each other for having let each other down."

Jobs ended by replacing the head of the group, on the spot.

In his book about Jobs' time at NeXT and return to Apple, The Second Coming of Steve Jobs, Alan Deutschman described Jobs' rough treatment of underlings:


He would praise and inspire them, often in very creative ways, but he would also resort to intimidating, goading, berating, belittling, and even humiliating them... When he was Bad Steve, he didn't seem to care about the severe damage he caused to egos or emotions... suddenly and unexpectedly, he would look at something they were working on say that it "sucked," it was "shit."

Jobs had his share of personal shortcomings, too. He has no public record of giving to charity over the years, despite the fact he became wealthy after Apple's 1980 IPO and had accumulated an estimated $7 billion net worth by the time of his death. After closing Apple's philanthropic programs on his return to Apple in 1997, he never reinstated them, despite the company's gusher of profits.

It's possible Jobs has given to charity anonymously, or that he will posthumously, but he has hardly embraced or encouraged philanthropy in the manner of, say, Bill Gates, who pledged $60 billion to charity and who joined with Warren Buffet to push fellow billionaires to give even more.



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"He clearly didn't have the time," is what the director of Jobs' short-lived charitable foundation told the New York Times. That sounds about right. Jobs did not lead a balanced life. He was professionally relentless. He worked long hours, and remained CEO of Apple through his illness until six weeks before he died. The result was amazing products the world appreciates. But that doesn't mean Jobs' workaholic regimen is one to emulate.

There was a time when Jobs actively fought the idea of becoming a family man. He had his daughter Lisa out of wedlock at age 23 and, according to Fortune, spent two years denying paternity, even declaring in court papers "that he couldn't be Lisa's father because he was 'sterile and infertile, and as a result thereof, did not have the physical capacity to procreate a child.'" Jobs eventually acknowledged paternity, met and married his wife, now widow, Laurene Powell, and had three more children. Lisa went to Harvard and is now a writer.

Steve Jobs created many beautiful objects. He made digital devices more elegant and easier to use. He made a lot of money for Apple Inc. after people wrote it off for dead. He will undoubtedly serve as a role model for generations of entrepreneurs and business leaders. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on how honestly his life is appraised.

 
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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 01:23 PM
Thanks for printing that. I've heard snippets of "the other side" of Jobs over the years. I'd be interested in knowing who is the source of this article, you don't say.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 02:37 PM
What ever happened to respect for the Dead. ?

Trashing the Dead, who can not defend themselves is in very poor taste. IMO

no one is perfect, we all know that. Some found his management tone abrasive.
Big Dead, If you didn't like it, then QUIT.

to focus on the Positive affect the deceased has made is customary in our culture.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 03:14 PM
well i for one, think Jobs will go down as one of the greatest inventors and business people in history. I am sure he had flaws, lets face it, if you are as successful as he was (or even 10% as successful as he was), many other traits and parts of your life have to be flawed in the eyes of many folks. No human can be successful at many things and when you are, other facets of life suffer. there is only so much time to deal with what life offers.

Jobs and his company created many jobs and a great deal of wealth for many partners and workers at his companies. Both Apple and Pixar. In addition he made the users of their products very happy as evidenced by demand.

Steve Jobs changed my life for the better in many ways and for that I am extremely grateful. I cried when I learned of his illness because i can only think of what else he might have accomplished.


 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 03:48 PM
quote:
What ever happened to respect for the Dead. ?

Trashing the Dead, who can not defend themselves is in very poor taste. IMO

no one is perfect, we all know that. Some found his management tone abrasive.
Big Dead, If you didn't like it, then QUIT.

to focus on the Positive affect the deceased has made is customary in our culture.




I take the opposite approach. If you thought someone was a piece of crap when they were alive why be a hypocrite and say nice things about them when they are dead. Having said that there is no denying Jobs business success and legacy.



[Edited on 10/11/2011 by Peachypetewi]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 04:23 PM
Jobs may have been a total jerk, I don't know, but I agree...his vision created jobs, helped people connect world wide, and did far more good to benefit humanity in general than any petty things he may have done to workers. I celebrate the the life of a man of inspiration and genius.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 06:10 PM
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 07:11 PM
quote:
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.


Well said.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 07:54 PM
quote:
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.


Nobody was forced to work for him.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 09:05 PM
quote:
quote:
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.


Nobody was forced to work for him.


While I agree with you re: the corporate guys who took his abuse, the sweatshop kids probably did not have the same degree of choices

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 09:33 PM
quote:
quote:
What ever happened to respect for the Dead. ?

Trashing the Dead, who can not defend themselves is in very poor taste. IMO

no one is perfect, we all know that. Some found his management tone abrasive.
Big Dead, If you didn't like it, then QUIT.

to focus on the Positive affect the deceased has made is customary in our culture.




I take the opposite approach. If you thought someone was a piece of crap when they were alive why be a hypocrite and say nice things about them when they are dead. Having said that there is no denying Jobs business success and legacy.






You don't have to say nice things or bad things.

You don't have to say anything. No hypocrisy in that.

 

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  posted on 10/11/2011 at 09:47 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.


Nobody was forced to work for him.


While I agree with you re: the corporate guys who took his abuse, the sweatshop kids probably did not have the same degree of choices


True but I was referring specifically to his alleged abusive managerial personality towards people at Apple Corp. not the factory practices which I agree are deplorable but certainly not limited to Apple.

 

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  posted on 10/12/2011 at 10:49 AM
quote:
quote:
What ever happened to respect for the Dead. ?

Trashing the Dead, who can not defend themselves is in very poor taste. IMO

no one is perfect, we all know that. Some found his management tone abrasive.
Big Dead, If you didn't like it, then QUIT.

to focus on the Positive affect the deceased has made is customary in our culture.




I take the opposite approach. If you thought someone was a piece of crap when they were alive why be a hypocrite and say nice things about them when they are dead. Having said that there is no denying Jobs business success and legacy.



[Edited on 10/11/2011 by Peachypetewi]


There is truth to that in a sense. I mean, do we want to focus on the nice side of Hitler? (if there was one)

I for one have been hearing bad things about Steve Jobs for many years. I think it's important to not dwell on it either way. - I think its just frustrating for people who know someone who might have had more of an evil side than known to most, to see them so glorified after death.

 

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  posted on 10/12/2011 at 06:11 PM
quote:
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.


So you HAVE to be an A$$HOLE in order to be a success. That makes degrading and abusing others OK.

I have worked for more abusive bosses than I could count. One of them ran his small company like a concentration camp and he would, almost daily, verbally abuse his wife, who was our office manager, to the point of tears. Eventually she quit, and he wouldn't or couldn't treat her replacement the same way, so he started on me, because, he said, he "knew I could take it." As if that made it OK.

Eventually I had enough and we had it out in the warehouse. He was over 400 lbs. and was drafted by the Dallas Cowboys (but was too much of a pussy to make it through more than a week of training camp before he quit) and I was maybe about 170, but he was used to intimidating people with his size and I infuriated him because I refused to be intimidated. When I called him a liar to his face, and told him he COULD NOT continue to use his size to intimidate his employees and others, which was absolutely true, his face started to turn purple and I knew he wanted to hit me, so I said, "Go ahead, you a$$hole, hit me and then I'll own this company and fire your worthless ass." Of course I was fired the next day, after taking more than a year of his verbal abuse and him constantly trying to physically intimidate me. And of course, Wisconsin being a Right To Work state, I had absolutely no recourse with the Wisconsin Department of Labor.

So Rich, it's nice to know that you think any form of abuse by employers toward their employees is completely OK and just "business as usual." How many of your ex-bosses got so close to your face while they were screaming obscenities at you you could feel the SPIT flying into your face and you would almost PUKE from the disgusting stench of their overwhelming halitosis due to poor or NO oral hygiene? How many of your ex-bosses threatened to beat the sh!t out of you, or just IMPLIED that they might do it at any time, simply because YOU worked for THEM and they outweighed you by oh, about 230 lbs.?

This is just plain bullying made more reprehensible by the fact that an employee, in a Right To Work state, HAS NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER. Which I know you are OK with.

I guess when your kid gets his butt kicked by a bully you must be OK with that too. Because I guess he must have deserved it if it happened to him. Might ALWAYS makes RIGHT, ESPECIALLY in the workplace, right?

And UNIONS are the root of ALL problems in the business word.

Right.

LMAO....

 

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  posted on 10/12/2011 at 06:21 PM
I just don't understand how someone can achieve that type of wealth then turn around and never donate a single penny to charity. That blows me away.

 

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  posted on 10/12/2011 at 08:22 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who has been massively successful, with their vision toppling that of many competitors, and not been a strict taskmaster, precise to the point of being difficult, and generally demanding to those around them?

I don't know anyone who achieves such sweeping success without leaving some feeling uncomfortable, maybe even abused a bit, in the process. It is the nature of genius and success.

So what? As long as he's not leaving dead bodies in his wake, who really cares? He's wasn't trying to be the Delai Lama for goodness sake.


So you HAVE to be an A$$HOLE in order to be a success. That makes degrading and abusing others OK.

I have worked for more abusive bosses than I could count. One of them ran his small company like a concentration camp and he would, almost daily, verbally abuse his wife, who was our office manager, to the point of tears. Eventually she quit, and he wouldn't or couldn't treat her replacement the same way, so he started on me, because, he said, he "knew I could take it." As if that made it OK.

Eventually I had enough and we had it out in the warehouse. He was over 400 lbs. and was drafted by the Dallas Cowboys (but was too much of a pussy to make it through more than a week of training camp before he quit) and I was maybe about 170, but he was used to intimidating people with his size and I infuriated him because I refused to be intimidated. When I called him a liar to his face, and told him he COULD NOT continue to use his size to intimidate his employees and others, which was absolutely true, his face started to turn purple and I knew he wanted to hit me, so I said, "Go ahead, you a$$hole, hit me and then I'll own this company and fire your worthless ass." Of course I was fired the next day, after taking more than a year of his verbal abuse and him constantly trying to physically intimidate me. And of course, Wisconsin being a Right To Work state, I had absolutely no recourse with the Wisconsin Department of Labor.

So Rich, it's nice to know that you think any form of abuse by employers toward their employees is completely OK and just "business as usual." How many of your ex-bosses got so close to your face while they were screaming obscenities at you you could feel the SPIT flying into your face and you would almost PUKE from the disgusting stench of their overwhelming halitosis due to poor or NO oral hygiene? How many of your ex-bosses threatened to beat the sh!t out of you, or just IMPLIED that they might do it at any time, simply because YOU worked for THEM and they outweighed you by oh, about 230 lbs.?

This is just plain bullying made more reprehensible by the fact that an employee, in a Right To Work state, HAS NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER. Which I know you are OK with.

I guess when your kid gets his butt kicked by a bully you must be OK with that too. Because I guess he must have deserved it if it happened to him. Might ALWAYS makes RIGHT, ESPECIALLY in the workplace, right?

And UNIONS are the root of ALL problems in the business word.

Right.

LMAO....




dang, brofan, that sucks. My buddy just moved to Wisconsin. Not sure if he's aware of his labor rights there. What was the name of that boss you had? I wanna make sure he stays away from him.


Don Westby of Westby Production Components in Port Washington, WI. He was the same disgustingly obese slob that expected me to get down on my knees and pull his socks onto his smelly feet because he was too fat to do it and his wife wouldn't - I refused to do so while my dick-sucking co-worker did, while I uttered the immortal line "I've heard of bootlicking before, but this is ridiculous!"

I was fired not long thereafter. And my dick-sucking, back-stabbing, toe-sucking/boot-licking co-worker is probably still there (12 years later).

 

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  posted on 10/12/2011 at 09:05 PM
quote:
So Rich, it's nice to know that you think any form of abuse by employers toward their employees is completely OK and just "business as usual."
Where exactly did I say anything like this Rich? I'm loosing count of how many times you read something I've written and then respond with the most extreme, twisted application of the idea as if that's what I intended. Jezz dude, ease up.

People with the kind of precise vision and high standards that someone like Jobs had often leave others uncomfortable around them. Most folks have never worked for someone who expects perfection of himself and others the work with, it would be easy to imagine how some would feel too much is being asked under such conditions.

As it was mentioned before, those who can't exist under those conditions should leave. Same for your story about the bully you used to work for. If enough folks simply walked, he'd get what he deserved far better and quicker.

There's a wide margin between physical or mental abuse and high standards of performance. And given how far we've fallen as a country, some high standards and more backbone wouldn't exactly be a bad thing.

 

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  posted on 10/12/2011 at 10:16 PM
quote:
As it was mentioned before, those who can't exist under those conditions should leave.


I don't agree with this at all. It's a publicly traded company and therefore falls under the federally mandated rules and regulations involving fair treatment. If he wanted to legally abuse his employees, he should've kept it privately owned. Employees did not deserve that treatment under any circumstance. He wanted all the advantages of going public, but didn't want to follow the other rules that come along with those advantages.

 

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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 06:38 AM
quote:
quote:
So Rich, it's nice to know that you think any form of abuse by employers toward their employees is completely OK and just "business as usual."
Where exactly did I say anything like this Rich? I'm loosing count of how many times you read something I've written and then respond with the most extreme, twisted application of the idea as if that's what I intended. Jezz dude, ease up.

People with the kind of precise vision and high standards that someone like Jobs had often leave others uncomfortable around them. Most folks have never worked for someone who expects perfection of himself and others the work with, it would be easy to imagine how some would feel too much is being asked under such conditions.

As it was mentioned before, those who can't exist under those conditions should leave. Same for your story about the bully you used to work for. If enough folks simply walked, he'd get what he deserved far better and quicker.

There's a wide margin between physical or mental abuse and high standards of performance. And given how far we've fallen as a country, some high standards and more backbone wouldn't exactly be a bad thing.


You can have high standards and backbone without the abuse. And the reason we've fallen so far as a country has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the work that our American work force produces.


[Edited on 10/13/2011 by Peachypetewi]

 

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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 07:25 AM
It blows me away that so many people seem to care. The internet is full of RIP Steve comments as if they even knew the guy. I think their only connection to him is their addiction to cell phones and computers. Almost like thanking the creator of crack.

Successful guy who obviously had drive to succeed and strive for more. But it seems that he did little to help charity or give back in any way. Don't wish bad thoughts upon him but hardly think he should have the thoughts and prayers of the world when others far more deserving die unnoticed by most.

I found all the emotional outpouring for him to be comical. People writing as if they knew the guy and will truly miss him. All based on what? Not truly amazing human feats but the creation of electronic crap designed to break to increase sales, have an endless amount of people checking for messages and turn the youth further into zombie lands and text morons. All while being manufactured elsewhere in sweatshop conditions with no/little benefit for North America or its' people.

We all have the right to grieve anyone we choose to. I just don't think this guy deserved some sort of saint like status. You can RIP Steve all you want but he wouldn't have done the same for you. I think of him when I see countless morons staring blankly at tiny screens while ignoring the life around them.

 

____________________
Chicago Black Hawks - next season.


 

True Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 07:46 AM
quote:
It blows me away that so many people seem to care. The internet is full of RIP Steve comments as if they even knew the guy. I think their only connection to him is their addiction to cell phones and computers. Almost like thanking the creator of crack.

Successful guy who obviously had drive to succeed and strive for more. But it seems that he did little to help charity or give back in any way. Don't wish bad thoughts upon him but hardly think he should have the thoughts and prayers of the world when others far more deserving die unnoticed by most.

I found all the emotional outpouring for him to be comical. People writing as if they knew the guy and will truly miss him. All based on what? Not truly amazing human feats but the creation of electronic crap designed to break to increase sales, have an endless amount of people checking for messages and turn the youth further into zombie lands and text morons. All while being manufactured elsewhere in sweatshop conditions with no/little benefit for North America or its' people.

We all have the right to grieve anyone we choose to. I just don't think this guy deserved some sort of saint like status. You can RIP Steve all you want but he wouldn't have done the same for you. I think of him when I see countless morons staring blankly at tiny screens while ignoring the life around them.



 

True Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 08:50 AM
quote:
quote:
As it was mentioned before, those who can't exist under those conditions should leave.


I don't agree with this at all. It's a publicly traded company and therefore falls under the federally mandated rules and regulations involving fair treatment. If he wanted to legally abuse his employees, he should've kept it privately owned. Employees did not deserve that treatment under any circumstance. He wanted all the advantages of going public, but didn't want to follow the other rules that come along with those advantages.


There is nothing in the securities laws affecting publicly traded companies that governs how employees are to be treated. Those laws all have to do w/ disclosures of financials so that potential investors can make informed investment decisions.

There are some federal laws that only affect employers of a certain size, mostly having to do w/ discrimination against certain classes of people, but those apply to both public and private entities. An employee's remedy usually is that he may seek unemployment if he is not fired for cause.


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 12:57 PM
I suppose mourning a man a person has never met and sending prayers for his family in the case of Jobs is much like the people on this site who have mourned the death of musicians they don't know. And often those particular people haven't been very nice to the people around them either. Just saying.....Jobs touched peoples' lives in a number of ways and the loss of his genius is mourned by many.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 02:05 PM
quote:
I suppose mourning a man a person has never met and sending prayers for his family in the case of Jobs is much like the people on this site who have mourned the death of musicians they don't know. And often those particular people haven't been very nice to the people around them either. Just saying.....Jobs touched peoples' lives in a number of ways and the loss of his genius is mourned by many.


I think it is EXACTLY like that. While I don't buy into the "tech as art" thing that a lot of Apple fans believe, there is no doubt that just as the art of our favorite musicians touches our lives, the things that Jobs was responsible for through Apple, Inc., has touched millions (if not billions) of lives as well. And just as our musical heroes were not always perfect people the same goes for our heroes of industry such as they are.

As for the question of whether one can be a visionary businessman without being nasty to one's employees I just don't know. I would hate to think emotional abuse is necessary to do great things.

 

____________________

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/13/2011 at 09:24 PM
quote:
What ever happened to respect for the Dead. ?

Trashing the Dead, who can not defend themselves is in very poor taste. IMO

no one is perfect, we all know that. Some found his management tone abrasive.
Big Dead, If you didn't like it, then QUIT.

to focus on the Positive affect the deceased has made is customary in our culture.




Sort of like people around here did when Jerry Falwell died?



Mike

 
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