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Author: Subject: Isn't This Going Too Far?

Zen Peach





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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 07:44 PM
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/10/01/169542.html

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 08:07 PM
I can see how this might be something some women would be interested in. If it's proven safe and a healthy child can be delivered, it would be a great gift from a doner.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 08:22 PM
No it is not going too far.

any medical procedure that can help a woman have children is a good thing.

Why deny motherhood because of a medical problem?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 08:34 PM
God creates people, if he denied that woman the capacity to have a child, she should accept that and do something else with her aspirations. She could adopt a child, using someone else's dead parts temporarily and then having them removed because the body would have naturally rejected it in the first place ought to tell someone she should not be doing that. (in my opinion of course). There is nothing wrong with Dr.'s helping to restore a person's natural functioning if there is a hormonal imbalance or something like that but to take a dead woman's uterus temporarily and have to use ivf to create child to implant in a transplanted dead woman's uterus and then remove it? That's just tooo much.

 

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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 08:44 PM
quote:
God creates people, if he denied that woman the capacity to have a child, she should accept that and do something else with her aspirations. She could adopt a child, using someone else's dead parts temporarily and then having them removed because the body would have naturally rejected it in the first place ought to tell someone she should not be doing that. (in my opinion of course). There is nothing wrong with Dr.'s helping to restore a person's natural functioning if there is a hormonal imbalance or something like that but to take a dead woman's uterus temporarily and have to use ivf to create child to implant in a transplanted dead woman's uterus and then remove it? That's just tooo much.


Bullshhit, Gina. How do you know that God didn't make special procedures, surgeries or reproductive specialists available so that people could have children. My wife and I had to get help from a doctor to conceive through IVF and we now have the most beautiful daughter in the world because of it. Moreover, people get body parts from cadavers all the time. Should they stop doing that as well?



Mike

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 09:01 PM
Well Mike, real simplistically, if God thought it was okay, he would have made people's bodies able to accept transplanted parts without the need for anti-rejection drugs. Why do you think the body naturally rejects someone else's parts? Because he who made the bodies was opposed to the idea.

If people cannot conceive in the manner God ordained for them to try to have children, they should accept that and stop trying to play God to suit their own desires. He may have some other purpose for the lives of the people who cannot have children, something else he wants them to do with their time and lives, but they just decide I WANT, it is what I want, refusing to accept what he decreed. That is the problem.

Look at the drugs man has created, they mimic what God put here in nature, aspirin mimics the willow bark and there are a lot of other examples. Valium mimics Kava Kava root. He put everything here people needed to cure disease and be well, then the pharmaceutical companies got into it seeing dollar signs and having disregard to potential terrible side effects as long as they could make money from it.

Vinegar will cure heartburn, but they sell hi cost ulcer drugs. Ginger will cure nausea but they have a drug for you instead.

Mankind has perverted medicine and taken it too far.

 

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"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 10:17 PM
Same old crap, same old gina.

Why not go count dead terrorists?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/1/2011 at 10:55 PM
Our souls are perfect, not our bodies otherwise they wouldn't age and eventually wear out. If medical procedures are for the betterment of mankind, I don't see any problem whatsoever in using them to preserve or help create life.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 06:57 AM
quote:
Well Mike, real simplistically, if God thought it was okay, he would have made people's bodies able to accept transplanted parts without the need for anti-rejection drugs. Why do you think the body naturally rejects someone else's parts? Because he who made the bodies was opposed to the idea.

If people cannot conceive in the manner God ordained for them to try to have children, they should accept that and stop trying to play God to suit their own desires. He may have some other purpose for the lives of the people who cannot have children, something else he wants them to do with their time and lives, but they just decide I WANT, it is what I want, refusing to accept what he decreed. That is the problem.

Look at the drugs man has created, they mimic what God put here in nature, aspirin mimics the willow bark and there are a lot of other examples. Valium mimics Kava Kava root. He put everything here people needed to cure disease and be well, then the pharmaceutical companies got into it seeing dollar signs and having disregard to potential terrible side effects as long as they could make money from it.

Vinegar will cure heartburn, but they sell hi cost ulcer drugs. Ginger will cure nausea but they have a drug for you instead.

Mankind has perverted medicine and taken it too far.



What cures bat **** crazy? Haven't figured that one out yet, have you?



Mike

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 07:25 AM
This is a tough call for a christian. I think people are having to make decisions that God never intended for us to make. For example, I personally beleive it wouldn't be right for me to have animal parts in my body. However, if a doctor told me my wife would either get a monkey's heart or die, what would I do?
This is a great discussion, let's keep it civil.

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 07:36 AM
quote:
This is a tough call for a christian. I think people are having to make decisions that God never intended for us to make. For example, I personally beleive it wouldn't be right for me to have animal parts in my body. However, if a doctor told me my wife would either get a monkey's heart or die, what would I do?
This is a great discussion, let's keep it civil.


Ed, I personally feel that any response I have given to Gina in this thread more than qualifies as "civil" compared to her implications. To me, Gina's suggestion that we were not right in our decision to pursue help from a medical professional in the conception of our daughter pretty much tells me that she feels that A) we don't deserve to have her, and B) she doesn't have a right to exist. To me, that is the height of arrogance and being offensive. Frankly, I feel that if God didn't want us to have a child, he would not have made the expertise and procedures available which would allow it to happen, and it's not Gina's place to tell me that my beliefs are wrong.

Civility is a good thing in any discussion, Ed, but I feel like you are coming in on the back end of the history of Gina's willingness to preach her brand of religion and logic to everyone here.


Mike

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 08:01 AM
Mike, I recall a thread on the Philzone some time ago. It was about religous people trying to foist their beliiefs on others. One comment I will always remember and try to live by. If you are living your life to it's full capacity and really have your sh#t together people will come to you for advice. If this never happens, examine yourself before telling others how to live."his job is to shed light, not to master"
 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 08:14 AM
quote:
Mike, I recall a thread on the Philzone some time ago. It was about religous people trying to foist their beliiefs on others. One comment I will always remember and try to live by. If you are living your life to it's full capacity and really have your sh#t together people will come to you for advice. If this never happens, examine yourself before telling others how to live."his job is to shed light, not to master"


You just earned yourself a Karma thumbs up hit...



Mike

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 09:38 AM
"While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in"


Bob Dylan "It's Alright Ma"





[Edited on 10/2/2011 by scrambldybones]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 09:42 AM
Just wondering why anyone thinks they know what God intended?

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 09:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Just wondering why anyone thinks they know what God intended?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Because He gave us the bible. I use it as a roadmap. In it God explains what he intends and how we should act. After almost 40 years of studying this book I have a fairly good idea of who and what God is. Do I always live up to those expectations? Sadly, no. I fall short, but keep on trying anyway.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 10:11 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just wondering why anyone thinks they know what God intended?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Because He gave us the bible. I use it as a roadmap. In it God explains what he intends and how we should act. After almost 40 years of studying this book I have a fairly good idea of who and what God is. Do I always live up to those expectations? Sadly, no. I fall short, but keep on trying anyway.


I mean no disrespect to your beliefs, but the Bible was written by man. Some people take it literally, others don't. Are the basic tenets for living set forth in the Bible a good plan? I believe they are. The Dalai Lama teaches that we must strive to treat each other with compassion. I believe that as well even though I'm not a Buddhist. Like you, I don't always live up to those expectations. We all take what we need from religion. As Karl Marx said, "religion is the opium of the people." OK, enough from me. Carry on...

[Edited on 10/2/2011 by KWidgeon]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 12:23 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what's the difference in transplanting a womb as opposed to a heart, lungs, liver, corneas, kidneys, bone marrow, etc. I'd have a serious internal dilemma if doctors were wanting to experiment with transplanting animal parts into unwilling recipients just for the sake of trying, but when there is a greater good as the goal, I have no reservations. Years ago IVF was thought to be inspired by the devil and it's given countless families wonderful children. Personally I don't think this has anything to do with God wanting or not wanting a womb transplant for a woman who wants to bear her own child.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 01:34 PM
quote:
I think people are having to make decisions that God never intended for us to make.
Wouldn't any decision made by man, be a decision God intended us to make?
Isn't any event which happens in the universe, the result of Gods intention? Including man ability to transfer one woman's womb, into another woman's body,Gina?

 

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Well 30 years of heart and soul,lord we took it further than rock and roll.
We stood together thru thick and thin,yeah we made the best of it all back then.
Then I guess time took it's toll,cut me deep,cut me cold.
Brother against brother....

 

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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 01:59 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I think people are having to make decisions that God never intended for us to make.
Wouldn't any decision made by man, be a decision God intended us to make?
Isn't any event which happens in the universe, the result of Gods intention? Including man ability to transfer one woman's womb, into another woman's body,Gina?



All due respect, I don't know if I agree with that. Hitler's decisions were part of God's master plan? Any decision that results in war or genocide is part of God's master plan?
Isn't everything in the universe about balance, including what we perceive as good and evil?

 

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Well 30 years of heart and soul,lord we took it further than rock and roll.
We stood together thru thick and thin,yeah we made the best of it all back then.
Then I guess time took it's toll,cut me deep,cut me cold.
Brother against brother....

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 02:22 PM

Mark Twain:

"The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive... but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born."



 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/2/2011 at 07:41 PM
Free will and choice do exist. My set of beliefs tells me that God does not want to dictate our actions, but instead gives us the ability and opportunity to choose to follow him or not. This is precisely why the Ten Commandments exist. If God dictated our thoughts and actions, there would be no need for these guiding Commandments. He is telling us how He wants us to live, but does not force us to live that way. We must choose. That's just what I believe.


Mike

 

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  posted on 10/3/2011 at 07:08 AM
Good one Mike. I was going to post. Now I don't have to.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/5/2011 at 11:31 AM
quote:
Just wondering why anyone thinks they know what God intended?


He created life, he created the body, the body will reject someone elses body parts being put in there, unless manking intervenes with drugs to try to stop the natural rejection process.

His intent is pretty clear, when people who are born with defects, (and everyone has some), it is because that is what he willed for them and their life. Dr.'s knowledge and training was meant to help restore natural functioning processes that can be disrupted or break down due to any number of things, environmental toxins, etc. Everything else in makinds desire to effect what he wants for himself. This we know how life is formed, so we will create it for anyone who wants it is not how they should be using the abilities they have learned as physicians.

God allows them to do it, but will render his judgement upon them later on, might be generations later with DNA defects or diseases happening, but he will take them to task.
It is also said he punishes down to the third generation, so people in this lifetime may have problems due to something someone else in the ancestry did a long time ago.




 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/5/2011 at 11:43 AM
quote:
quote:
I think people are having to make decisions that God never intended for us to make.
Wouldn't any decision made by man, be a decision God intended us to make?

Isn't any event which happens in the universe, the result of Gods intention? Including man ability to transfer one woman's womb, into another woman's body,Gina?



God is the only one with perfect will, mankind's will is flawed by the nature of him being man and not God. God allows free will, but he gave guidance. If people follow his guidance they will make the best decisions possible. Our lives are here for us to choose to live in his ways, or our own. Just because things are possible, does not make them correct.

As to the transfer of body parts, I already mentioned that if the body naturally rejects the part, that should be a wake up call to people that it should not be put there. God allows the blood transfusions of the same blood type, people's bodies do not reject that, but that seems to be as far as he was willing to go in what was allowed; and I think he only allowed that to occur because if someone was injured, someone else from their family could donate blood to save their life.

Even with food, there are specific guidelines (same for the Jews and Muslims) on how animals are to be slaughtered, and that the blood from the animals must not be consumed because the life force of the animal is in their blood; well the same would hold true for organs, wouldn't it? The organ has the life force of another person in it, the body naturally rejects it, unless manmade drugs are given to the person to stop that from happening. All of the drugs mankind has made have side effects, because they are not a perfect solution from God.

If man uses the foods, herbs, plants that have healing properties they don't have problems from it that will create serious other conditions for the person, (unless used in large doses). I have found the best remedies for medical problems are from natural sources God put here. You have congestion or cold, respiratory problems? Get some wild mediterranean oregano. Starting to get that seasonal sinus stuff? Garlic is good. Starting to get sick? Grapefruit seed extract will enhance your immunity and help prevent that along with Echinacea root. You don't need manmade pharmaceuticals, he put relief here. Need good antihistamininc activity, collard greens have that naturally in them.

Mankind thinks he knows best, he doesn't. If your body will reject a transplanted organ without man-made drugs stopping it, that should tell you something.

 

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