Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: fact checker -Bachman lies

Zen Peach





Posts: 25201
(25201 all sites)
Registered: 9/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 09:12 AM
From the Washington Post Fact Checker:


“Well, I think the one thing we have to do is reject the new normal level of spending under the Obama administration, because President Obama amped up spending to never-seen-before levels. . . . I mean, one example I'll give you is, we had one employee at the federal Department of Transportation that made $170,000 a year at the beginning of the recession. We had the trillion-dollar stimulus, and 18 months into the recession, we had 1,690 employees making over $170,000. Government has really been growing at — a lot of largesse, but the people in the real world aren’t. And that’s what has to change. Government has no conformity at all with the real world.”

— Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), Aug. 14, 2011



By popular demand, we are going to vet a statement in the column that we had previously discussed in an online chat. We probably did not do it full justice then, and Bachmann continues to say it — including on the Sunday morning TV shows this past weekend. A number of readers sent e-mails curious to know the truth, so we are happy to oblige.

On the surface, the fact appears astonishing — a huge increase in big-paying government jobs under Obama. But this is one of those statements one has to unpack very carefully, because Bachmann uses what is essentially a correct statistic regarding government salaries in a very misleading way.

The Facts
Note that although the GOP presidential aspirant starts out by talking about the “never-seen-before levels” of spending under Obama and then mentions “the trillion-dollar stimulus,” the example she cites — the number of Transportation Department employees making more than $170,000 — uses the metric of “the beginning of the recession.” There’s a reason for that phrase: The recession started in December 2007, 13 months before Obama became president.

In other words, Bachmann gives the impression that she is talking about something that Obama did, but in fact, the big increase in government pay that she denounces started under Obama’s Republican predecessor, George W. Bush.

In fact, the apparent source of Bachmann’s claim, a 2009 article in USA Today, made it clear that Bush recommended across-the-board raises that, after they got through Congress, resulted in boosts of 3 percent in January 2008 and 3.9 percent in January 2009. By contrast, Obama in 2010 recommended the smallest federal pay raise since 1975 — 2 percent — and then froze salaries in 2011.

USA Today also noted that civil servants are generally prevented from earning more than their agency’s leader, so when the salary of the Federal Aviation Administration chief was raised, nearly 1,700 employees had their salaries lifted as well.

The fact that these salary shifts occurred before Obama became president is easily confirmed by fiddling with the data displayed on the Web site of the U.S. Office of Personnel Management. If you check the data before Obama became president, it is clear that the bulk of the new salaries were instituted before he took office.

The Pinocchio Test
Bachmann’s use of the phrase “beginning of the recession” suggests she knows full well that the pay raises did not occur under Obama, and yet she persists in leaving the impression that Obama is directly responsible for boosting the number of employees making more than $170,000.

That makes her statistic, while technically correct, deliberately misleading, especially since Obama has actually frozen federal salaries.





[Edited on 8/16/2011 by spacemonkey]

 

____________________
Keep on Smiling


 
Replies:

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 11:14 AM
Ahem, she is a politician....even though she claims not to be.... Fact checker - all politicians lie.
 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46486
(46487 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 11:19 AM
quote:
Ahem, she is a politician....even though she claims not to be.... Fact checker - all politicians lie.


Which means that Bachmann is free to do so? Man, Republicans have odd logic.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 11:30 AM
quote:
Which means that Bachmann is free to do so? Man, Republicans have odd logic.


Sure, if you say so.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46486
(46487 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 12:05 PM
quote:
quote:
Which means that Bachmann is free to do so? Man, Republicans have odd logic.


Sure, if you say so.


Alright then. In what context did you mean "all politicians lie" as it applies to Bachmann? I'm just curious to find what the standard is.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 19109
(19169 all sites)
Registered: 2/9/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 01:46 PM
fact checker -Bachman lies

I believe this statement denotes some type of intellectual agility.....In Rep. Bachman's case, I just don't see it. She appears to have the classic "Deer in the headlights look" to me, like that kid in your 3rd grade classroom who was always the first to raise their hand with an "Oooh..OOOh"!...only to spout off with the wrong answer....

Lord help us

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 27533
(27822 all sites)
Registered: 2/18/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 02:02 PM
If it's a democrat....democrats lie. If it's a republican, all politicians lie. Just the way it always seems to work out.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9687
(9686 all sites)
Registered: 8/16/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 02:15 PM
quote:
fact checker -Bachman lies

I believe this statement denotes some type of intellectual agility.....In Rep. Bachman's case, I just don't see it. She appears to have the classic "Deer in the headlights look" to me, like that kid in your 3rd grade classroom who was always the first to raise their hand with an "Oooh..OOOh"!...only to spout off with the wrong answer....

Lord help us

Sorry, I couldnt help myself this pic is going to get alot of mileage

 

____________________

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 02:38 PM
quote:
In what context did you mean "all politicians lie" as it applies to Bachmann?


I applied it to all including her, and in all different contexts. Its nothing new and I don't expect it to change, but I am just sick of it. She says she is not a poltician. She is running for fcking President. Sorry, don't mean to come at you, but that sort of talk makes me ill. They all lie, or at least tell half truths to garner votes. I guess, Napolean's quote holds true, or least I have seen it attributed to him: "In politics, an absurdity is not a handicap."

Bush Sr. Read my lips, "no new taxes." Lie.

H. Dean: "60 percent of the deficit is due to the Bush tax cuts." Lie.

Anytime you hear a debate on gasoline prices, both sides Lie.

"I was hiking the Appalachian Trail." Lie.


"I am was not soliciting gay sex in the airport bathroom, I just have a wide stance." Lie.

"i did not have sex with that woman." Lie (well sort of, it was just a BJ apparently)

I don't know anything about this watergate break-in. Lie

I don't recall anything about Iran Contra. Lie (well could be Alzheimers!!)

If we pass this stimulus unemployment will be capped at 8.5%. Lie

We are not at war with Libya we are having a kinectic military action. Lie.



 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46486
(46487 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 02:55 PM
quote:
quote:
In what context did you mean "all politicians lie" as it applies to Bachmann?


I applied it to all including her, and in all different contexts. Its nothing new and I don't expect it to change, but I am just sick of it. She says she is not a poltician. She is running for fcking President. Sorry, don't mean to come at you, but that sort of talk makes me ill. They all lie, or at least tell half truths to garner votes. I guess, Napolean's quote holds true, or least I have seen it attributed to him: "In politics, an absurdity is not a handicap."

Bush Sr. Read my lips, "no new taxes." Lie.

H. Dean: "60 percent of the deficit is due to the Bush tax cuts." Lie.

Anytime you hear a debate on gasoline prices, both sides Lie.

"I was hiking the Appalachian Trail." Lie.


"I am was not soliciting gay sex in the airport bathroom, I just have a wide stance." Lie.

"i did not have sex with that woman." Lie (well sort of, it was just a BJ apparently)

I don't know anything about this watergate break-in. Lie

I don't recall anything about Iran Contra. Lie (well could be Alzheimers!!)

If we pass this stimulus unemployment will be capped at 8.5%. Lie

We are not at war with Libya we are having a kinectic military action. Lie.





Would you prefer the alternative? The last President that was brutally honest in a speech to Americans was Carter, and many people are still pi$$ed off at him for it 30 years later. We're like children. We like to be told everything is going to be OK when it really isn't and we hate it when someone tells us things we don't like. Here we are.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 02:57 PM
quote:
Would you prefer the alternative?


No, I like being lied to.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46486
(46487 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 03:00 PM
quote:
quote:
Would you prefer the alternative?


No, I like being lied to.


OK, then. How about a politician gets brutally honest about Medicare and Social Security with the largest population of senior citizens in our country's history? Ask Paul Ryan how his first attempt went.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 03:09 PM
quote:
OK, then. How about a politician gets brutally honest about Medicare and Social Security with the largest population of senior citizens in our country's history? Ask Paul Ryan how his first attempt went.


So because telling the truth does not go well, we should keep lying to the people?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 25201
(25201 all sites)
Registered: 9/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 03:19 PM
This is the whole problem with politics.

Politicians would rather distort the opponents record rather than offer any vision of their own.

She has been going around pushing this BS on the Sunday talk shows and no one
ever calls her on this BS.

We need something more than "The sky is falling and it's Obama's fault"

 

____________________
Keep on Smiling




 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46486
(46487 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 03:30 PM
quote:
quote:
OK, then. How about a politician gets brutally honest about Medicare and Social Security with the largest population of senior citizens in our country's history? Ask Paul Ryan how his first attempt went.


So because telling the truth does not go well, we should keep lying to the people?


No, by all means. Brutal honesty is the way to go.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11437
(11442 all sites)
Registered: 8/21/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 03:38 PM
I do not think what Rep Bachmann said was a lie. Rather, she wove truthful statements together to lead one to think ill of the Pres. She's got good game when it comes to politics. She may be a loon, but she's a crafty one. Almost like she's a lawyer or something!
 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14578
(14578 all sites)
Registered: 3/28/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 04:00 PM
I think she is a lying and misleading moron. Just my take.

 

____________________
Pete

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 25201
(25201 all sites)
Registered: 9/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 05:53 PM
quote:
I do not think what Rep Bachmann said was a lie. Rather, she wove truthful statements together to lead one to think ill of the Pres. She's got good game when it comes to politics. She may be a loon, but she's a crafty one. Almost like she's a lawyer or something!


Nothing truthful about this statement

quote:
because President Obama amped up spending to never-seen-before levels. . .


It was Bush that raised the salaries and spent the surplus that Clinton left.
And left the mess for Obama.

 

____________________
Keep on Smiling




 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11437
(11442 all sites)
Registered: 8/21/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 08:02 PM
quote:
quote:
I do not think what Rep Bachmann said was a lie. Rather, she wove truthful statements together to lead one to think ill of the Pres. She's got good game when it comes to politics. She may be a loon, but she's a crafty one. Almost like she's a lawyer or something!


Nothing truthful about this statement

quote:
because President Obama amped up spending to never-seen-before levels. . .


It was Bush that raised the salaries and spent the surplus that Clinton left.
And left the mess for Obama.




But isn't that quoted statement, standing alone, absolutely true? The author of the article seems to have no issue w/ it. I understand much of the spending may have helped avert a depression, so I will not criticize the need to have amped spending.

My point is that, given the outright lies told about the President, it's oddly refreshing that only a misleading conclusion is suggested here. Good that the article points that out for sure.

That Rep Bachmann was able to put something like this together tells me she is not nearly as dumb as many suggest. We'll need to avoid underestimating her.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 67365
(67882 all sites)
Registered: 10/27/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 08:44 PM
Speaking of bachman's lies:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/15/1007311/-Michele-Bachmann-lies-abo ut-own-family-reunion

Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 05:35 PM PDT
Michele Bachmann lies about own family reunion?

by Hunter

I'm not sure what to make of this. From Ben Smith at Politico:

On her victory lap of Iowa yesterday, Straw Poll winner Rep. Michele Bachmann paid repeated tribute to her local roots, and repeatedly mentioned her family reunion that day, citing it as an excuse for her late arrival at a local party event in Waterloo.

But Bachmann's mother and two cousins told POLITICO's Emily Schultheis that Bachmann didn't attend the reunion, though her husband and children did. Her spokeswoman, Alice Stewart, didn't respond to two emails asking for an explanation of the disparity.

On Sunday, she told Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday" that she'd be seeing her relatives at her "big family reunion." Later that day, after she showed up late to the Black Hawk County Republican Party dinner in Waterloo, she told a reporter:

“We had a big family reunion just north of Waterloo," she said. She also said she'd visited a local "shut-in."

So the reason she was late for events was that she had a busy day going to a family reunion that she didn't actually show up for? But her husband and children were at the reunion, so ... what, was Michele personally driving them all down there in the campaign bus? And then did she sit in the bus the whole time? Was she just such a wallflower at the event (mind you, this is Michele Freaking Bachmann we're talking about) that her own mom didn't notice her there?

I'm not really sure how to parse that. I guess the options are (1) she went to the event with everybody else, but stayed in the car the whole time because that's just how much she hates her relatives, or (2) it was a costume party, and she went as, I don't know, Darth Inheritance Tax or something, or (3) she's just lying about the whole thing.

Then there's a part about "visiting a local shut-in". That may be just as strange as the reunion thing: it sounds noble enough, but usually "visit local shut-ins" is far, far down the list of presidential campaigns. For starters, local shut-ins provide surprisingly few primary votes. "So, Mr. or Ms. So-and-So, can I count on your vote next year, as well as the votes of your many, many cats?"

I think what I would prefer to believe is that Michele Bachmann had promised to go to her family reunion by handlers who thought it would make a nice photo op, but at the last minute, Michele panicked over having that whole "I'm telling you mom, Marcus is as straight as you or me or Rick Perry" conversation for the umpteenth time, and bolted the scene behind the wheel of her own campaign bus. After a high-speed bus chase down the interstate, her campaign team in hot pursuit, she then holed herself up in the home of a devoted local cat fancier, vowing not to come out until she had watched Princess Fluffykins have all her kittens.

But it's probably not that exciting. She probably just got caught lying about going to her own family reunion.

 

____________________
Hittin' The Web::Hugh Duty Memorial Giveaway has begun!

RIP Hugh Duty

 

Peach Pro



Karma:
Posts: 395
(398 all sites)
Registered: 8/6/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 09:39 PM
Don't be so harsh...my guess is that she attended another family's reunion and didn't realize that she was with the wrong group... I am sure that Obama caused this to happen...



 

____________________
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. Elwood P. Dowd

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11157
(11157 all sites)
Registered: 9/17/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/16/2011 at 10:50 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I do not think what Rep Bachmann said was a lie. Rather, she wove truthful statements together to lead one to think ill of the Pres. She's got good game when it comes to politics. She may be a loon, but she's a crafty one. Almost like she's a lawyer or something!


Nothing truthful about this statement

quote:
because President Obama amped up spending to never-seen-before levels. . .


It was Bush that raised the salaries and spent the surplus that Clinton left.
And left the mess for Obama.




But isn't that quoted statement, standing alone, absolutely true? The author of the article seems to have no issue w/ it. I understand much of the spending may have helped avert a depression, so I will not criticize the need to have amped spending.

My point is that, given the outright lies told about the President, it's oddly refreshing that only a misleading conclusion is suggested here. Good that the article points that out for sure.

That Rep Bachmann was able to put something like this together tells me she is not nearly as dumb as many suggest. We'll need to avoid underestimating her.



Stop it Brock. This kind of talk may give me nightmares.

 

____________________

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9082
(9082 all sites)
Registered: 2/25/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/17/2011 at 06:34 AM
quote:
It was Bush that raised the salaries and spent the surplus that Clinton left.


More lies.

Please explain how Bush had a surplus if the national debt went up every single year before he arrived. There never was a surplus. Just go to the Treasury website and type in the dates. The national debt went up every single year.

While the public debt went down, the intragovernmental holdings (government borrowing from itself; that is from social security) went up each year by a pretty significant amount. Just because the government borrows from itself doesn't mean they can wave a magic wand and make it disappear. Social Security owes you money and if that intragovernmental debt is canceled you are not getting paid. If they want to waive the intragovernmental holdings, then they would have to waive SS, and you know that is not happening. The total national debt (public debt + intragovernmental holdings) went up under Clinton.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

[Edited on 8/17/2011 by jim]

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 13594
(13848 all sites)
Registered: 2/10/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/17/2011 at 09:03 AM
so...anyone who supports Bachman also watches Jersey Shore.

can they all be that easily swayed? Can every person that supports Bachman be that naive and gullible? Is it representative of the dumbing down of the American voter? I think Obama slicked his way into the Oval Office with just that strategy. I guess they all do...

I can't for one minute believe that everyone supporting Bachman is that stupid or gullible. It seems we pick candidates based on whose lies are less damaging? The Iowa straw voters are all idiots or picking the less of 6 evils?

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46486
(46487 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/17/2011 at 09:27 AM
quote:
so...anyone who supports Bachman also watches Jersey Shore.

can they all be that easily swayed? Can every person that supports Bachman be that naive and gullible? Is it representative of the dumbing down of the American voter? I think Obama slicked his way into the Oval Office with just that strategy. I guess they all do...

I can't for one minute believe that everyone supporting Bachman is that stupid or gullible. It seems we pick candidates based on whose lies are less damaging? The Iowa straw voters are all idiots or picking the less of 6 evils?


Well, I will second Brock's earlier sentiment. Bachmann is a pretty sharp politician when it comes to her speaking to her base. Intelligence wise, she's at least 10 country miles ahead of Sarah Palin.

Here's her bullet points from the Issues page on her website:

quote:
My top priorities as a constitutional conservative:

-Restore our economy and create millions of new jobs.
-Repeal Obamacare and its unconstitutional mandates.
-Achieve deep cuts in spending to reduce America's debt.
-Strengthen the family and defend marriage.
-Rebuild respect for America as the shining city upon a hill.



Sounds delightful and that's exactly what a certain group of people want to hear.

The rest of her Issues page is a full-on Obama bash festival. For instance, under a "A More Secure Nation," it reads:

quote:
Beyond the basic task of defending our borders and our homeland, it doesn’t take a Nobel Peace Prize to recognize that preserving our security comes down to one simple maxim: stand up for our friends … stand up to our foes … and know the difference.

Understanding those tenets is especially important at a time of unprecedented flux and instability in the Middle East and the rise of powerful competitors including China and Russia.

Instead, we have a President who devalues the special relationship with our most trusted ally, Britain, even as he bows to kings, bends to dictators, bumbles with reset buttons, and babies radical Islamists. We have a President who tells our true friend, Israel, that it must surrender its right to defensible borders to appease forces that have never recognized that nation’s right to exist.

We have a President who stumbles into Libya, without a clear mission or exit strategy, to protect its population, but can’t or won’t devise a strategy to secure our borders. We have a President who has taken his eye off the ball when it comes to the true threat in the Middle East: a potentially nuclear-armed Iran.

We have a President who – in unprecedented fashion – is ravaging our military strength and structure at a time of war, while elevating political correctness over readiness in its ranks. And we have a President who is declaring a premature end to the war on terror against the advice of his own generals.

As Commander-in-Chief, I will do whatever it takes to fulfill the federal government’s foremost responsibility under the Constitution: to keep you safe in an increasingly dangerous world. I will uphold America’s values by standing shoulder-to shoulder with those who share those values and our interests and standing tall against those who don’t. I will devote the resources necessary to maintain our fighting forces as second-to-none, while being judicious in the use of our power. I will ensure our borders are fully secured. And I will not rest until the war on terror is won.



6 paragraphs. 4 bashing Obama and one that guarantees more war if she's elected.

Oh, and in the healthcare section, she wants to privatize everything. Of course!

Now, you might be saying, "Bhawk, c'mon, she's running for President, how can she not go after her potential opponent?" Well, of course she'll do that. The only thing I would warn those who want to see Obama defeated is that you cannot simply assume that since you think Obama is a whatever and will be defeated because he is a whatever that he actually will be defeated. Ask John Kerry. He ran on the basic premise that George Bush is such an idiot, most Americans think he is an idiot, how can I not win? How'd that turn out?

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 
<<  1    2  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software

Privacy | Terms of Service | Report Infringement | Personal Data Management | Contact Us
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com