Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: S&P Downgrades U.S. Credit Rating From AAA

Universal Peach





Posts: 6013
(6012 all sites)
Registered: 7/3/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/5/2011 at 09:47 PM
Job well done Washington!!!!!!!!!!




Urgent: Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's on Friday downgraded the United States' credit rating for the first time in the history of the ratings.

The credit rating agency said that it is cutting America's top AAA rating by one notch to AA-plus. The credit agency said that it is making the move because the deficit reduction plan passed by Congress on Tuesday did not go far enough to stabilize the country's debt situation.

A source familiar with the discussions said that the Obama administration feels the S&P's analysis contained "deep and fundamental flaws."

S&P said that in addition to the downgrade, it is issuing a negative outlook, meaning that there was a chance it will lower the rating further within the next two years. It said such a downgrade to AA would occur if the agency sees less reductions in spending than Congress and the administration have agreed to make, higher interest rates or new fiscal pressures during this period.

S&P first put the government on notice in April that a downgrade was possible unless Congress and the administration came up with a credible long-term deficit reduction plan and avoided a default on the country's debt.

After months of wrangling and negotiations with the administration, Congress passed this week a debt reduction package that averted a possible default.

In its statement, S&P said that it had changed its view "of the difficulties of bridging the gulf between the political parties" over a credible deficit reduction plan.

S&P said it was now "pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government's debt dynamics anytime soon."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/05/us-official-says-sp-reconsiderin g-us-credit-downgrade/#ixzz1UDGr4nVR

 

____________________

 
Replies:

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8379
(8380 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 08:56 AM
This gives Obama a perfect opportunity to fire Geithner, and find someone who understands a pro-growth agenda. Or he should offer his resignation, and make it easier for his boss.

Just the fact that he's the first Sec of the Treasury to ever preside over a downgrade of US debt rating should be enough on it's face. But further; he's been wrong on many things and is now the last member standing of a failed economic team. That should seal it. Or at least it would for most.

Time to go, tax-cheat Timmy. Your boss needs to wipe the slate clean in preparation for new versions of hope and change in 2012, since he has no positive accomplishments to run on. Your continued presence is a constant reminder of it's failure the first time around.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46275
(46276 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 09:40 AM
quote:
This gives Obama a perfect opportunity to fire Geithner, and find someone who understands a pro-growth agenda. Or he should offer his resignation, and make it easier for his boss.


Don't fall off your chair, but I agree with you about Geithner having to go.

The downgrade looks to me to be two things, one, a reflection of the economic mess, sure, but also a simple good old-fashioned scolding for how DC has conducted itself. There are other countries in the world that have worse debt to GDP ratios and they are still rated AAA by S&P.

I would like to see the President call Congress back to session, or at least call the Joint Supercommittee to convene, oh, how about Monday? Don't really think Congress needs a six week break at the moment. You don't need a degree in economics to see that that the U.S. government needs to restore some shred of confidence. The Chinese I see are joining in the scolding. They aren't calling for our collapse or calling in the debt. They, like much of the rest of the world, it seems, are calling for us to get our $hit together, or, at least appear that we are trying. Hmmmm. Wonder if we will.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8379
(8380 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 09:53 AM
The Chinese commentary shows what they seek, and that should be a very scary thing for Americans to ponder.

They suggest external influence - if not outright control - over our debt problem. Further and more menacing; they talk about a new global reserve currency. If and when that happens, our house of cards falls apart.

But ultimately we have no one but ourselves to blame for this.

While I agree with you Hawk about bringing Congress back, I don't see any path that they will be willing to take that doesn't involve more spending. The President won't risk his re-election by leading with anything that would make a difference (defense or entitlement cuts that have immediate effect). All he can talk about is taking from some to spend on others. The Senate won't touch tough issues either. And the House can't overrule the other two. None will look at structural change like tax reform, tort reform, regulatory reform, development on public lands, etc. So I'm not sure what bringing them back solves, though it would be nice if they would just produce a budget.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 15998
(15990 all sites)
Registered: 10/13/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 10:11 AM
It's interesting to note that for all the reasons being given for the downgrade - none say it's because taxes are too low or that somebody needs to pay their "fair share."

 

____________________

 

Sublime Peach



Karma:
Posts: 7168
(7166 all sites)
Registered: 4/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 10:14 AM
They are going to give China Freddie/Fannie. If you have a mortgage, China will own you.


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46275
(46276 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 10:25 AM
quote:
The Chinese commentary shows what they seek, and that should be a very scary thing for Americans to ponder.

They suggest external influence - if not outright control - over our debt problem. Further and more menacing; they talk about a new global reserve currency. If and when that happens, our house of cards falls apart.

But ultimately we have no one but ourselves to blame for this.

While I agree with you Hawk about bringing Congress back, I don't see any path that they will be willing to take that doesn't involve more spending. The President won't risk his re-election by leading with anything that would make a difference (defense or entitlement cuts that have immediate effect). All he can talk about is taking from some to spend on others. The Senate won't touch tough issues either. And the House can't overrule the other two. None will look at structural change like tax reform, tort reform, regulatory reform, development on public lands, etc. So I'm not sure what bringing them back solves, though it would be nice if they would just produce a budget.


What it solves is they go back and to what they were elected to do. This is not the time to give up.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46275
(46276 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 10:26 AM
quote:
They are going to give China Freddie/Fannie. If you have a mortgage, China will own you.




We've been trying to sell China our bad mortgage debt for years. President Bush sent his head of HUD over there in 2006 to see if they'd buy it. They wouldn't then.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46275
(46276 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 10:29 AM
quote:
The Chinese commentary shows what they seek, and that should be a very scary thing for Americans to ponder.

They suggest external influence - if not outright control - over our debt problem. Further and more menacing; they talk about a new global reserve currency. If and when that happens, our house of cards falls apart.


Well, if we fall, they fall and everyone knows it. Right now we are like the guy that owes money to the Mob. They'd kill him, but then they'll never get their money back, so they beat him up from time to time.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Sublime Peach



Karma:
Posts: 7168
(7166 all sites)
Registered: 4/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 11:39 AM
quote:
if we fall, they fall


That is American arrogance right there. I am sure the Romans thought the same thing. They may stumble, but we will collapse.

If America can't consume anymore, there will just be more for the rest of the world.

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11157
(11157 all sites)
Registered: 9/17/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 12:05 PM
quote:

In its statement, S&P said that it had changed its view "of the difficulties of bridging the gulf between the political parties" over a credible deficit reduction plan.

S&P said it was now "pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government's debt dynamics anytime soon."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/05/us-official-says-sp-reconsiderin g-us-credit-downgrade/#ixzz1UDGr4nVR


I'm still PO'd that a bunch of law makers hardwired themselves politically to some external pledge. Which in the end contributes to more dysfunctional action or inaction on the part of the federal govt. Now there is going to be a "super committee". Oh boy.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 27533
(27822 all sites)
Registered: 2/18/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 12:11 PM
For the first time in my many years, government doesn't make any sense. First I blame the republicans for being hell bent to destroy this president and next I blame the democrats for not standing up. This is the biggest division and do nothing bunch of people I've ever witnessed and its brought this government and country to a stand still. If having a republican control of government is more important than doing what's right for this country then we've got serioius problems.....and we do. I'm really ticked at politics and how the people in D.C. are screwing with our lives.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8379
(8380 all sites)
Registered: 3/22/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 12:23 PM
quote:
quote:
The Chinese commentary shows what they seek, and that should be a very scary thing for Americans to ponder.

They suggest external influence - if not outright control - over our debt problem. Further and more menacing; they talk about a new global reserve currency. If and when that happens, our house of cards falls apart.

But ultimately we have no one but ourselves to blame for this.

While I agree with you Hawk about bringing Congress back, I don't see any path that they will be willing to take that doesn't involve more spending. The President won't risk his re-election by leading with anything that would make a difference (defense or entitlement cuts that have immediate effect). All he can talk about is taking from some to spend on others. The Senate won't touch tough issues either. And the House can't overrule the other two. None will look at structural change like tax reform, tort reform, regulatory reform, development on public lands, etc. So I'm not sure what bringing them back solves, though it would be nice if they would just produce a budget.
What it solves is they go back and to what they were elected to do. This is not the time to give up.
This sort of reminds me of the debate we had not long ago Hawk, where I said that leadership always matters and you felt otherwise because of the polarized division in Congress.

We have an Administration who refuses to look at the kind of cuts that have some immediate impact. Someone must demonstrate enough courage to move us in the direction of austerity that will make a difference to the world. Moves that will restore confidence that we're taking this seriously.

I understand all the reasons for the President to avoid this. And to be fair; no one in Washington has ever shown that sort of courage in our lifetimes. But that's precisely what current events call for, and without it, a divided Congress is left twiddling their thumbs.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 27533
(27822 all sites)
Registered: 2/18/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 12:30 PM
And someone needs to forget that 'pledge' they signed and reinstate the taxes that Bush cut. You just can't balance a budget with spending cuts alone in this economy when the unemployed aren't able to contribute to the tax base. Of course if all those receiving tax cuts would create jobs for the currently unemployed then I'm fine with them keeping the cuts....iif not.....no way.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46275
(46276 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 01:04 PM
quote:
quote:
if we fall, they fall


That is American arrogance right there. I am sure the Romans thought the same thing. They may stumble, but we will collapse.

If America can't consume anymore, there will just be more for the rest of the world.


Oh? Who is going to buy all their cheap crap? Do you have any idea how fragile their economy is?

Arrogant? No. I'm just not rooting for my country to collapse like you are.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46275
(46276 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 01:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The Chinese commentary shows what they seek, and that should be a very scary thing for Americans to ponder.

They suggest external influence - if not outright control - over our debt problem. Further and more menacing; they talk about a new global reserve currency. If and when that happens, our house of cards falls apart.

But ultimately we have no one but ourselves to blame for this.

While I agree with you Hawk about bringing Congress back, I don't see any path that they will be willing to take that doesn't involve more spending. The President won't risk his re-election by leading with anything that would make a difference (defense or entitlement cuts that have immediate effect). All he can talk about is taking from some to spend on others. The Senate won't touch tough issues either. And the House can't overrule the other two. None will look at structural change like tax reform, tort reform, regulatory reform, development on public lands, etc. So I'm not sure what bringing them back solves, though it would be nice if they would just produce a budget.
What it solves is they go back and to what they were elected to do. This is not the time to give up.
This sort of reminds me of the debate we had not long ago Hawk, where I said that leadership always matters and you felt otherwise because of the polarized division in Congress.

We have an Administration who refuses to look at the kind of cuts that have some immediate impact. Someone must demonstrate enough courage to move us in the direction of austerity that will make a difference to the world. Moves that will restore confidence that we're taking this seriously.

I understand all the reasons for the President to avoid this. And to be fair; no one in Washington has ever shown that sort of courage in our lifetimes. But that's precisely what current events call for, and without it, a divided Congress is left twiddling their thumbs.


The Administration came in with $3.5 trillion in cuts and the entitlements on the table. The Tea Party wanted to crash our repuation and it worked. Let's call this even for once and then more forward. Furthermore, for anyone to insist that this is the result of the last two years that's simply ridiculous. This was decades in the making.

Yup, it's deeply polarized all right. Two sides standing in a boat going nose to nose while the boat takes on water. You cannot lead those who choose not to be led. If they have to keep arguing then they need to keep arguing. Get back in there and figure it out.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Sublime Peach



Karma:
Posts: 7168
(7166 all sites)
Registered: 4/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 01:15 PM
quote:
I'm just not rooting for my country to collapse like you are.


I have always said that I hope I am wrong, but clearly, they are destroying this country from the inside out and it has been a long process. Nobody else needs the crap that China makes. We are the number one debtor nation in the history of the world, China doesn't owe 14 trillion dollars.

You can hope for the best, but I am preparing for the worst. This is just the tip of the iceberg, it is going to get MUCH worse here in America. We have not come close to hitting bottom, yet.

Isn't financial warfare fun

 

Universal Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6013
(6012 all sites)
Registered: 7/3/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 01:43 PM
S&P spurs blame game for Obama, GOP

Standard & Poor’s delivered an unambiguous message to investors Friday that has serious implications not only for the nation’s economy but also for President Barack Obama, the tea party and anyone else with skin in the 2012 elections:

America’s political system is subprime.


Friday’s downgrade seems likely to spur a public backlash against S&P, which now assesses U.S. government debt at less than the top-shelf rating it once gave mortgage-backed securities ahead of the 2008 financial world implosion. But the ratings agency won’t be on the ballot in November 2012.

For everyone who will be, the political stakes of the debt-limit deal – and the deficit-reduction committee it spawned – have been raised exponentially. Rather than forcing conciliation, the analysis spurred many in the political class to dig deeper into the very trenches identified in the report — and to begin trading blame.

The partisan battle lines were quickly drawn: Republicans blamed Obama for reckless overspending, and Democrats said tea party intransigence blocked the sort of “grand bargain” that might have fended off a downgrade. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) called on Obama to fire Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. Pragmatists in Congress took the report as a wake-up call to go for a big deficit-reduction plan, and the fret set crooned in unison, “We told you so.”

Still, it was hard not to read the S&P analysis as a report card on Obama’s oft-repeated pledge to cure Washington’s hyper-partisanship, the promise that won him the White House in 2008.

And much as the credit agency knocked the U.S. credit rating to AA+, it didn’t give passing marks to Obama’s efforts either — producing a soundbite-worthy nugget for any Republican ready to use it: under Obama, we’re not triple-A anymore.

“If Team Obama believes the first downgrade in our history occurring on his watch … is not going to be a boulder in his political backpack, they are delusional,” veteran Republican strategist Mary Matalin told POLITICO Friday night.

GOP presidential contenders wasted no time jumping in. “America’s creditworthiness just became the latest casualty in President Obama’s failed record of leadership on the economy. Standard & Poor’s rating downgrade is a deeply troubling indicator of our country’s decline under President Obama,” said former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

Added former House speaker Newt Gingrich: “The Obama disaster continues. Highest food stamp level and lowest credit rating in history in the same 24 hours.”


But ultimately, S&P didn’t only downgrade the U.S. credit rating. It downgraded the whole political system. If it’s any comfort to Obama and his re-election team, no one was spared, including the Republicans. In the eyes of the raters, both parties punted the tough decisions. Both parties used the debt and the threat of default as “political bargaining chips.”

The report dings Democrats for envisioning “only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements” but also pops Republicans by asserting that “new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.” It also notes that a rollback of the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest earners would produce $950 billion in savings that might go a long way toward getting the U.S. closer to the deficit-reduction targets that S & P would smile upon — which is pretty much exactly what Obama will be arguing this fall.


S&P concluded that even its moments of greatest cohesion – less than a week after a $2.4 trillion debt-limit deal was iced – it’s clear that Washington’s broken. And the bottom line on the platinum triple-AAA credit rating? The U.S. doesn’t deserve it, says S&P. It’s like American Express yanking your gold card and replacing it with the standard green one. According to S&P, America’s a bigger credit risk than Finland and on par with South Korea.

Already, however, some Democrats were seeing the report as a chance for Obama to strike back at the tea party, including the House GOP freshman who helped block Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) from striking the “grand bargain” he and Obama wanted.

Said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.): “By refusing to negotiate in good faith, Republicans turned the debt ceiling debate into a hostage crisis and last night we saw its first casualty.”

“The Tea Party forced us into the lowest common denominator, and we punted,” said a veteran Democratic hand who lamented the lack of political will to reform entitlement programs and the tax code as part of the debt-limit deal. That source acknowledged the potential political fallout for Obama but argued that the moment presents an opportunity for the president to unload on the tea party and force what he called “real Republicans” to choose sides.


“If ever there was a time for Obama to win on the negative dial, this is it,” the source said.

That’s in line with the increasingly inflammatory rhetoric from Democrats and their allies about the tea party. Vice President Joe Biden accused that wing of the GOP of having “acted like terrorists” in the debt limit debate, according to several sources present at a closed-door House Democratic meeting this week. Former administration official Steve Rattner said they were “strapped with dynamite” recently, and columnist Thomas Friedman referred to them as the “Hezbollah faction” of the Republican Party.


A second senior Democratic official argued that it was “Republican brinksmanship and intransigence” that led to the downgrade. “This is going to be laid at the feet of the Republicans. To read S&P’s decision to downgrade it stems almost entirely from the failure to get a big deal that included revenues - a deal Boehner walked away from at least twice - an abdication of leadership and responsibility that every GOP presidential candidate endorsed.

“Republicans manufactured this crisis for their own political ends and then they walked away from the deals required to resolve it in a way that didn’t result in a downgrade of our credit rating,…and the public won’t soon forget it,” this official said.

Obama’s team stayed out of the partisan fracas on Friday night – choosing instead to try to undermine S&P – in what appeared to be a tacit acknowledgment that throwing political punches now would only serve to reinforce the negative assessment of Washington’s operating system. Friday night and Saturday morning e-mails to Obama’s campaign spokesman were not returned. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) issued a subdued statement, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called for transparency on the new “supercommittee” created by the debt limit deal.

The understated response from Washington’s top echelon of elected Democrats could also speak to the fear the downgrade struck in the hearts of some party officials. “Forget about the economic consequences, which could be very bad, this is a political thermonuclear explosion that probably just wiped out President Obama’s re-elect,” fretted one senior Democratic official. “The only chance we got now is Republicans nominate a crazy person, and after this, we may still lose. The worst part is, if this White House showed a gram of leadership on the debt crisis we could have avoided this historic embarrassment.”

By contrast, Republicans pounced on the S&P decision, pointing their fingers at Obama and Democrats in Congress who they say weren’t willing to cut enough – even though the final deal included the “dollar for dollar” reductions that formed the heart of the GOP’s list of demands throughout the debt-limit negotiations.


“The administration and Democrats in Congress had sought an increase in the debt limit without any spending cuts or reforms. Republicans made clear the American people would not tolerate that and fought for the largest spending cuts possible. With the Budget Control Act, we made a positive first step toward reducing the debt, but much more must be done,” Boehner (R-Ohio) said in a statement released late Friday.

Over the past couple of weeks, as S&P officials were communicating their concerns to the Treasury Department in person, White House spokesman Jay Carney delicately sought to portray the debt-limit deal as a message that should calm markets while acknowledging that S&P and other ratings agencies might not listen.


“The rating agencies are obviously independent and it is up to them. What we can do is take actions that make clear that the United States is still the gold standard when it comes to investments; that it is the safest of safe harbors, as it has been for 100 years or more, and — because Washington functions and can compromise and can do the right thing by the economy,” Carney said late last month. “We do that and we think that will help enormously in terms of how international investors look at the United States and our treasuries as a potential place to put their money.”

But rather than convincing S&P that Washington could work well, the debt-limit agreement appeared to have the opposite effect – confirming that the big deal fell far short of the kind of “grand bargain” needed to demonstrate that Congress and the White House would seriously restructure U.S. finances.

Indeed, like all new information, the downgrade appeared mostly to reinforce the strongly held beliefs not only of partisans but of non-partisan groups.

“The inability of Washington elected officials to make the tough but necessary choices to put our nation on a sustainable fiscal path has shaken the stock market, harmed our already fragile economy, and now resulted in the first credit rating downgrade in the U.S. government’s history,” said Dave Walker, a co-founder of the group “No Labels.”

Some lawmakers said they see the report as a “wake up call” for Congress to do more.

“Now we must fight to ensure that the cuts promised in the debt limit agreement actually happen, and that Congress takes the necessary next steps to reform our unsustainable entitlement programs and our inefficient tax code,” Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), a former White House budget director under President George W. Bush, told POLITICO. “Just a day after the nation’s debt hit 100% of the size of the U.S. economy, this news is a clear sign that record deficits and debt is having a negative impact on our current economy.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60794_Page4.html#ixzz1UH9vFbn1

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 18593
(18594 all sites)
Registered: 11/20/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 05:06 PM
quote:
quote:
I'm just not rooting for my country to collapse like you are.


I have always said that I hope I am wrong, but clearly, they are destroying this country from the inside out and it has been a long process. Nobody else needs the crap that China makes. We are the number one debtor nation in the history of the world, China doesn't owe 14 trillion dollars.

You can hope for the best, but I am preparing for the worst. This is just the tip of the iceberg, it is going to get MUCH worse here in America. We have not come close to hitting bottom, yet.

Isn't financial warfare fun
Agree, Jerry ... it's disturbing to see someone so happy and glib () over something that could be hurting their neighbors or others ...

 

____________________
"Come on down to the Mermaid Cafe and I will buy you a bottle of wine, and we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down..."

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11252
(11270 all sites)
Registered: 3/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 06:07 PM
quote:
S&P spurs blame game for Obama, GOP

Standard & Poor’s delivered an unambiguous message to investors Friday that has serious implications not only for the nation’s economy but also for President Barack Obama, the tea party and anyone else with skin in the 2012 elections:

America’s political system is subprime.


Friday’s downgrade seems likely to spur a public backlash against S&P, which now assesses U.S. government debt at less than the top-shelf rating it once gave mortgage-backed securities ahead of the 2008 financial world implosion. But the ratings agency won’t be on the ballot in November 2012.

For everyone who will be, the political stakes of the debt-limit deal – and the deficit-reduction committee it spawned – have been raised exponentially. Rather than forcing conciliation, the analysis spurred many in the political class to dig deeper into the very trenches identified in the report — and to begin trading blame.

The partisan battle lines were quickly drawn: Republicans blamed Obama for reckless overspending, and Democrats said tea party intransigence blocked the sort of “grand bargain” that might have fended off a downgrade. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) called on Obama to fire Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. Pragmatists in Congress took the report as a wake-up call to go for a big deficit-reduction plan, and the fret set crooned in unison, “We told you so.”

Still, it was hard not to read the S&P analysis as a report card on Obama’s oft-repeated pledge to cure Washington’s hyper-partisanship, the promise that won him the White House in 2008.

And much as the credit agency knocked the U.S. credit rating to AA+, it didn’t give passing marks to Obama’s efforts either — producing a soundbite-worthy nugget for any Republican ready to use it: under Obama, we’re not triple-A anymore.

“If Team Obama believes the first downgrade in our history occurring on his watch … is not going to be a boulder in his political backpack, they are delusional,” veteran Republican strategist Mary Matalin told POLITICO Friday night.

GOP presidential contenders wasted no time jumping in. “America’s creditworthiness just became the latest casualty in President Obama’s failed record of leadership on the economy. Standard & Poor’s rating downgrade is a deeply troubling indicator of our country’s decline under President Obama,” said former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

Added former House speaker Newt Gingrich: “The Obama disaster continues. Highest food stamp level and lowest credit rating in history in the same 24 hours.”


But ultimately, S&P didn’t only downgrade the U.S. credit rating. It downgraded the whole political system. If it’s any comfort to Obama and his re-election team, no one was spared, including the Republicans. In the eyes of the raters, both parties punted the tough decisions. Both parties used the debt and the threat of default as “political bargaining chips.”

The report dings Democrats for envisioning “only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements” but also pops Republicans by asserting that “new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.” It also notes that a rollback of the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest earners would produce $950 billion in savings that might go a long way toward getting the U.S. closer to the deficit-reduction targets that S & P would smile upon — which is pretty much exactly what Obama will be arguing this fall.


S&P concluded that even its moments of greatest cohesion – less than a week after a $2.4 trillion debt-limit deal was iced – it’s clear that Washington’s broken. And the bottom line on the platinum triple-AAA credit rating? The U.S. doesn’t deserve it, says S&P. It’s like American Express yanking your gold card and replacing it with the standard green one. According to S&P, America’s a bigger credit risk than Finland and on par with South Korea.

Already, however, some Democrats were seeing the report as a chance for Obama to strike back at the tea party, including the House GOP freshman who helped block Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) from striking the “grand bargain” he and Obama wanted.

Said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.): “By refusing to negotiate in good faith, Republicans turned the debt ceiling debate into a hostage crisis and last night we saw its first casualty.”

“The Tea Party forced us into the lowest common denominator, and we punted,” said a veteran Democratic hand who lamented the lack of political will to reform entitlement programs and the tax code as part of the debt-limit deal. That source acknowledged the potential political fallout for Obama but argued that the moment presents an opportunity for the president to unload on the tea party and force what he called “real Republicans” to choose sides.


“If ever there was a time for Obama to win on the negative dial, this is it,” the source said.

That’s in line with the increasingly inflammatory rhetoric from Democrats and their allies about the tea party. Vice President Joe Biden accused that wing of the GOP of having “acted like terrorists” in the debt limit debate, according to several sources present at a closed-door House Democratic meeting this week. Former administration official Steve Rattner said they were “strapped with dynamite” recently, and columnist Thomas Friedman referred to them as the “Hezbollah faction” of the Republican Party.


A second senior Democratic official argued that it was “Republican brinksmanship and intransigence” that led to the downgrade. “This is going to be laid at the feet of the Republicans. To read S&P’s decision to downgrade it stems almost entirely from the failure to get a big deal that included revenues - a deal Boehner walked away from at least twice - an abdication of leadership and responsibility that every GOP presidential candidate endorsed.

“Republicans manufactured this crisis for their own political ends and then they walked away from the deals required to resolve it in a way that didn’t result in a downgrade of our credit rating,…and the public won’t soon forget it,” this official said.

Obama’s team stayed out of the partisan fracas on Friday night – choosing instead to try to undermine S&P – in what appeared to be a tacit acknowledgment that throwing political punches now would only serve to reinforce the negative assessment of Washington’s operating system. Friday night and Saturday morning e-mails to Obama’s campaign spokesman were not returned. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) issued a subdued statement, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called for transparency on the new “supercommittee” created by the debt limit deal.

The understated response from Washington’s top echelon of elected Democrats could also speak to the fear the downgrade struck in the hearts of some party officials. “Forget about the economic consequences, which could be very bad, this is a political thermonuclear explosion that probably just wiped out President Obama’s re-elect,” fretted one senior Democratic official. “The only chance we got now is Republicans nominate a crazy person, and after this, we may still lose. The worst part is, if this White House showed a gram of leadership on the debt crisis we could have avoided this historic embarrassment.”

By contrast, Republicans pounced on the S&P decision, pointing their fingers at Obama and Democrats in Congress who they say weren’t willing to cut enough – even though the final deal included the “dollar for dollar” reductions that formed the heart of the GOP’s list of demands throughout the debt-limit negotiations.


“The administration and Democrats in Congress had sought an increase in the debt limit without any spending cuts or reforms. Republicans made clear the American people would not tolerate that and fought for the largest spending cuts possible. With the Budget Control Act, we made a positive first step toward reducing the debt, but much more must be done,” Boehner (R-Ohio) said in a statement released late Friday.

Over the past couple of weeks, as S&P officials were communicating their concerns to the Treasury Department in person, White House spokesman Jay Carney delicately sought to portray the debt-limit deal as a message that should calm markets while acknowledging that S&P and other ratings agencies might not listen.


“The rating agencies are obviously independent and it is up to them. What we can do is take actions that make clear that the United States is still the gold standard when it comes to investments; that it is the safest of safe harbors, as it has been for 100 years or more, and — because Washington functions and can compromise and can do the right thing by the economy,” Carney said late last month. “We do that and we think that will help enormously in terms of how international investors look at the United States and our treasuries as a potential place to put their money.”

But rather than convincing S&P that Washington could work well, the debt-limit agreement appeared to have the opposite effect – confirming that the big deal fell far short of the kind of “grand bargain” needed to demonstrate that Congress and the White House would seriously restructure U.S. finances.

Indeed, like all new information, the downgrade appeared mostly to reinforce the strongly held beliefs not only of partisans but of non-partisan groups.

“The inability of Washington elected officials to make the tough but necessary choices to put our nation on a sustainable fiscal path has shaken the stock market, harmed our already fragile economy, and now resulted in the first credit rating downgrade in the U.S. government’s history,” said Dave Walker, a co-founder of the group “No Labels.”

Some lawmakers said they see the report as a “wake up call” for Congress to do more.

“Now we must fight to ensure that the cuts promised in the debt limit agreement actually happen, and that Congress takes the necessary next steps to reform our unsustainable entitlement programs and our inefficient tax code,” Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), a former White House budget director under President George W. Bush, told POLITICO. “Just a day after the nation’s debt hit 100% of the size of the U.S. economy, this news is a clear sign that record deficits and debt is having a negative impact on our current economy.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60794_Page4.html#ixzz1UH9vFbn1


Excuse me, but is this the same Standard & Poor's that gave all those mortgage - backed securities - that were being peddled by the very same banks that were PAYING S & P -AAA "Buy" ratings? Can you say "Bribe?" Can you say "Conflict of Interest?"

What a shame they didn't do their fiduciary responsibility 3 years ago. If they had, I doubt we would even be having this conversation. They have no credibility - or INTEGRITY - whatsoever.

[Edited on 8/7/2011 by brofan]

 

____________________
"Love Like You've Never Been Hurt"-Satchel Paige

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1302
(1302 all sites)
Registered: 7/22/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 07:35 PM
quote:
It's interesting to note that for all the reasons being given for the downgrade - none say it's because taxes are too low or that somebody needs to pay their "fair share."


(scratching my head)

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2854
(2854 all sites)
Registered: 8/20/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 07:41 PM
quote:
quote:
S&P spurs blame game for Obama, GOP

Standard & Poor’s delivered an unambiguous message to investors Friday that has serious implications not only for the nation’s economy but also for President Barack Obama, the tea party and anyone else with skin in the 2012 elections:

America’s political system is subprime.


Friday’s downgrade seems likely to spur a public backlash against S&P, which now assesses U.S. government debt at less than the top-shelf rating it once gave mortgage-backed securities ahead of the 2008 financial world implosion. But the ratings agency won’t be on the ballot in November 2012.

For everyone who will be, the political stakes of the debt-limit deal – and the deficit-reduction committee it spawned – have been raised exponentially. Rather than forcing conciliation, the analysis spurred many in the political class to dig deeper into the very trenches identified in the report — and to begin trading blame.

The partisan battle lines were quickly drawn: Republicans blamed Obama for reckless overspending, and Democrats said tea party intransigence blocked the sort of “grand bargain” that might have fended off a downgrade. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) called on Obama to fire Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. Pragmatists in Congress took the report as a wake-up call to go for a big deficit-reduction plan, and the fret set crooned in unison, “We told you so.”

Still, it was hard not to read the S&P analysis as a report card on Obama’s oft-repeated pledge to cure Washington’s hyper-partisanship, the promise that won him the White House in 2008.

And much as the credit agency knocked the U.S. credit rating to AA+, it didn’t give passing marks to Obama’s efforts either — producing a soundbite-worthy nugget for any Republican ready to use it: under Obama, we’re not triple-A anymore.

“If Team Obama believes the first downgrade in our history occurring on his watch … is not going to be a boulder in his political backpack, they are delusional,” veteran Republican strategist Mary Matalin told POLITICO Friday night.

GOP presidential contenders wasted no time jumping in. “America’s creditworthiness just became the latest casualty in President Obama’s failed record of leadership on the economy. Standard & Poor’s rating downgrade is a deeply troubling indicator of our country’s decline under President Obama,” said former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

Added former House speaker Newt Gingrich: “The Obama disaster continues. Highest food stamp level and lowest credit rating in history in the same 24 hours.”


But ultimately, S&P didn’t only downgrade the U.S. credit rating. It downgraded the whole political system. If it’s any comfort to Obama and his re-election team, no one was spared, including the Republicans. In the eyes of the raters, both parties punted the tough decisions. Both parties used the debt and the threat of default as “political bargaining chips.”

The report dings Democrats for envisioning “only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements” but also pops Republicans by asserting that “new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.” It also notes that a rollback of the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest earners would produce $950 billion in savings that might go a long way toward getting the U.S. closer to the deficit-reduction targets that S & P would smile upon — which is pretty much exactly what Obama will be arguing this fall.


S&P concluded that even its moments of greatest cohesion – less than a week after a $2.4 trillion debt-limit deal was iced – it’s clear that Washington’s broken. And the bottom line on the platinum triple-AAA credit rating? The U.S. doesn’t deserve it, says S&P. It’s like American Express yanking your gold card and replacing it with the standard green one. According to S&P, America’s a bigger credit risk than Finland and on par with South Korea.

Already, however, some Democrats were seeing the report as a chance for Obama to strike back at the tea party, including the House GOP freshman who helped block Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) from striking the “grand bargain” he and Obama wanted.

Said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.): “By refusing to negotiate in good faith, Republicans turned the debt ceiling debate into a hostage crisis and last night we saw its first casualty.”

“The Tea Party forced us into the lowest common denominator, and we punted,” said a veteran Democratic hand who lamented the lack of political will to reform entitlement programs and the tax code as part of the debt-limit deal. That source acknowledged the potential political fallout for Obama but argued that the moment presents an opportunity for the president to unload on the tea party and force what he called “real Republicans” to choose sides.


“If ever there was a time for Obama to win on the negative dial, this is it,” the source said.

That’s in line with the increasingly inflammatory rhetoric from Democrats and their allies about the tea party. Vice President Joe Biden accused that wing of the GOP of having “acted like terrorists” in the debt limit debate, according to several sources present at a closed-door House Democratic meeting this week. Former administration official Steve Rattner said they were “strapped with dynamite” recently, and columnist Thomas Friedman referred to them as the “Hezbollah faction” of the Republican Party.


A second senior Democratic official argued that it was “Republican brinksmanship and intransigence” that led to the downgrade. “This is going to be laid at the feet of the Republicans. To read S&P’s decision to downgrade it stems almost entirely from the failure to get a big deal that included revenues - a deal Boehner walked away from at least twice - an abdication of leadership and responsibility that every GOP presidential candidate endorsed.

“Republicans manufactured this crisis for their own political ends and then they walked away from the deals required to resolve it in a way that didn’t result in a downgrade of our credit rating,…and the public won’t soon forget it,” this official said.

Obama’s team stayed out of the partisan fracas on Friday night – choosing instead to try to undermine S&P – in what appeared to be a tacit acknowledgment that throwing political punches now would only serve to reinforce the negative assessment of Washington’s operating system. Friday night and Saturday morning e-mails to Obama’s campaign spokesman were not returned. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) issued a subdued statement, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called for transparency on the new “supercommittee” created by the debt limit deal.

The understated response from Washington’s top echelon of elected Democrats could also speak to the fear the downgrade struck in the hearts of some party officials. “Forget about the economic consequences, which could be very bad, this is a political thermonuclear explosion that probably just wiped out President Obama’s re-elect,” fretted one senior Democratic official. “The only chance we got now is Republicans nominate a crazy person, and after this, we may still lose. The worst part is, if this White House showed a gram of leadership on the debt crisis we could have avoided this historic embarrassment.”

By contrast, Republicans pounced on the S&P decision, pointing their fingers at Obama and Democrats in Congress who they say weren’t willing to cut enough – even though the final deal included the “dollar for dollar” reductions that formed the heart of the GOP’s list of demands throughout the debt-limit negotiations.


“The administration and Democrats in Congress had sought an increase in the debt limit without any spending cuts or reforms. Republicans made clear the American people would not tolerate that and fought for the largest spending cuts possible. With the Budget Control Act, we made a positive first step toward reducing the debt, but much more must be done,” Boehner (R-Ohio) said in a statement released late Friday.

Over the past couple of weeks, as S&P officials were communicating their concerns to the Treasury Department in person, White House spokesman Jay Carney delicately sought to portray the debt-limit deal as a message that should calm markets while acknowledging that S&P and other ratings agencies might not listen.


“The rating agencies are obviously independent and it is up to them. What we can do is take actions that make clear that the United States is still the gold standard when it comes to investments; that it is the safest of safe harbors, as it has been for 100 years or more, and — because Washington functions and can compromise and can do the right thing by the economy,” Carney said late last month. “We do that and we think that will help enormously in terms of how international investors look at the United States and our treasuries as a potential place to put their money.”

But rather than convincing S&P that Washington could work well, the debt-limit agreement appeared to have the opposite effect – confirming that the big deal fell far short of the kind of “grand bargain” needed to demonstrate that Congress and the White House would seriously restructure U.S. finances.

Indeed, like all new information, the downgrade appeared mostly to reinforce the strongly held beliefs not only of partisans but of non-partisan groups.

“The inability of Washington elected officials to make the tough but necessary choices to put our nation on a sustainable fiscal path has shaken the stock market, harmed our already fragile economy, and now resulted in the first credit rating downgrade in the U.S. government’s history,” said Dave Walker, a co-founder of the group “No Labels.”

Some lawmakers said they see the report as a “wake up call” for Congress to do more.

“Now we must fight to ensure that the cuts promised in the debt limit agreement actually happen, and that Congress takes the necessary next steps to reform our unsustainable entitlement programs and our inefficient tax code,” Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), a former White House budget director under President George W. Bush, told POLITICO. “Just a day after the nation’s debt hit 100% of the size of the U.S. economy, this news is a clear sign that record deficits and debt is having a negative impact on our current economy.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60794_Page4.html#ixzz1UH9vFbn1


Excuse me, but is this the same Standard & Poor's that gave all those mortgage - backed securities - that were being peddled by the very same banks that were PAYING S & P -
AAA "Buy" ratings? Can you say "Bribe?" Can you say "Conflict of Interest?"

What a shame they didn't do their fiduciary responsibility 3 years ago. If they had, I doubt we would even be having this conversation. They have no credibility - or INTEGRITY - whatsoever.


Old American Indian saying: Brofan speaks the truth. (IMHO)

 

____________________
"Leave the Ego at Home, Play the Music, Love the People "-Luther Allison.

"Troops be awful quiet tonight, is it early or what? Too high. Me too." Duane Allman

Life Aint what it seems, its a Boulevard of Broken Dreams

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 23373
(23372 all sites)
Registered: 12/27/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 07:46 PM
quote:
quote:
if we fall, they fall


That is American arrogance right there. I am sure the Romans thought the same thing. They may stumble, but we will collapse.

If America can't consume anymore, there will just be more for the rest of the world.


China is tied at the hip to us (U.S. ). They can't even put some of the securities they own on the market because that would devalue the rest of what they own. If we sink, they are coming with us.

How many hot tub parts are made in China?

 

____________________

Quit!

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2854
(2854 all sites)
Registered: 8/20/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 07:54 PM
quote:
quote:
For the first time in my many years, government doesn't make any sense. First I blame the republicans for being hell bent to destroy this president and next I blame the democrats for not standing up. This is the biggest division and do nothing bunch of people I've ever witnessed and its brought this government and country to a stand still. If having a republican control of government is more important than doing what's right for this country then we've got serioius problems.....and we do. I'm really ticked at politics and how the people in D.C. are screwing with our lives.


X2

X3 and AMEN. We got serious problems. Just hope everyone heeds the wake up call, gets their collective heads out of their anal cavities, and unites as ONE to fix this great Nation, before it isn't great, and God forbid, before is isn't period. Just my humble fearful opinion.

 

____________________
"Leave the Ego at Home, Play the Music, Love the People "-Luther Allison.

"Troops be awful quiet tonight, is it early or what? Too high. Me too." Duane Allman

Life Aint what it seems, its a Boulevard of Broken Dreams

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 15998
(15990 all sites)
Registered: 10/13/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/6/2011 at 09:41 PM
quote:
quote:
It's interesting to note that for all the reasons being given for the downgrade - none say it's because taxes are too low or that somebody needs to pay their "fair share."


(scratching my head)


Sending more money to the DC spendaholics won't get it done. They need to figure out a way to get by on less and pass some SERIOUS spending cuts NOW.

 

____________________

 
<<  1    2  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com