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Author: Subject: Somalia

True Peach





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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 09:24 AM
I just read on yahoo that 29,000 Somalian children under the age of 5 have died in the last 90 days. 640,000 are acutely malnourished. Almost half the population of 7.5 million need immediate life-saving assistance and some outfit known as "Al-Shabab", an Al-Qaida linked group, denies there is a famine and is preventing the World Food Program from entering and giving aid.

drives me crazy. Children are dying. I know someone will explain the logistical nightmare of this but something should be done.

rant over...

 
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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 09:28 AM
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 09:36 AM
quote:
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.


this applies to America as well

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 10:02 AM
quote:
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.


Including many on the continent of Africa.

Famines are rarely caused by actual weather conditions/patterns. Most are caused by maniacal people.

PJ O’Rourke, in All the Trouble in the World actually highlights the Somalia issue and does a good, and funny job (even though its not a funny topic), explaining the situation there. For his chapter on famine (“All Guns, No Butter”) he goes to Somalia and discovers that there’s plenty of food, you just have to be armed to get it.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 10:10 AM
"one world", my ass...
 

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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 10:14 AM
PJ's book that was written in the mid 90's describes the current famine in Somalia? Really?
 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 10:15 AM
quote:
quote:
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.


Including many on the continent of Africa.

Famines are rarely caused by actual weather conditions/patterns. Most are caused by maniacal people.

PJ O’Rourke, in All the Trouble in the World actually highlights the Somalia issue and does a good, and funny job (even though its not a funny topic), explaining the situation there. For his chapter on famine (“All Guns, No Butter”) he goes to Somalia and discovers that there’s plenty of food, you just have to be armed to get it.


fine. Let's go in, wipe out Al Shabab, give all the residents .38's. Problem solved.

somewhat sarcastic...but there has to be an answer. How can we live in a world where little children are dying by the hundreds of thousands? It boggles the mind...

 

True Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 10:30 AM
quote:
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.


so...Obama doesn't read this site and good for you, neither does Al Sharpton...

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 11:07 AM
quote:
PJ's book that was written in the mid 90's describes the current famine in Somalia? Really?



Yes, really. The same story was told in the 90s, Somalies were fleeing drought. At the risk of sounding callous, it's worth pointing out that much of Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas currently face what the U.S. Department of Agriculture classifies as D4,the worst. The residents of those states have food to eat and water to drink, but Somalies are fleeing for their lives. High temperatures in Waco averaged 102° in mid-July while barely registering 85° in Mogadishu.

Severe drought may contribute to famine, but failed governments and terrorist tactics are what finally cause them. Somalia's government, if you even want to call it that, has been weakened by decades of misdirected foreign aid and failed international peacekeeping missions, and has failed to counter al-Shabaab, which controls much of the southern area outside Mogadishu, not surprisingly the areas most affected by famine.

Yes, the poor and starving need our help, but they deserve more than to be sentenced to lasting starvation and depravity by government and other programs that pay lip service to easing their suffering while standing back from solving its real causes. The real cause is not drought.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 11:33 AM
quote:
How can we live in a world where little children are dying by the hundreds of thousands? It boggles the mind...


Ok, fair enough and to be fair, quite a dilemma. But whose responsibility is it? I'll put it out there that it is not the responsibility of any particular Gov't or country other than Somalia itself. But we as individuals?... certainly. We can help and in a matter that rivals the help the Red Cross administers to the needy in Japan after the Tsunami or in Haiti after the earthquake. Donate your (not you Piacere) time and money...My guess is that after a while most will tire of seeing their resources go to waste or not reaching the people who need it most.... Sad? ..definitely. Mind boggling?... You bet.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 12:04 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.


Including many on the continent of Africa.

Famines are rarely caused by actual weather conditions/patterns. Most are caused by maniacal people.

PJ O’Rourke, in All the Trouble in the World actually highlights the Somalia issue and does a good, and funny job (even though its not a funny topic), explaining the situation there. For his chapter on famine (“All Guns, No Butter”) he goes to Somalia and discovers that there’s plenty of food, you just have to be armed to get it.


fine. Let's go in, wipe out Al Shabab, give all the residents .38's. Problem solved.

somewhat sarcastic...but there has to be an answer. How can we live in a world where little children are dying by the hundreds of thousands? It boggles the mind...


The world is run by the power elite and they are not concerned for children born of poor people. They care about profits, maintaining their lifestyle, which is maintained by owning natural resources of many countries.

You can expect the children in Somalia to become collateral damage since we have instituted a drone program there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/30/us-drone-strikes-somalia

The US feels the need to assassinate people on a global basis and if the kids get in the way, that is accepted as collateral damage. It might actually be better for them to die in drone attacks, it's faster than starving to death, and those are the only options available to them.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 12:14 PM
i agree that governments do not care about countries like somalia and africa in general unless spoils are involved.

however, non-profits like world vision, the red cross, doctors without borders and others have genuine, authentic care for somalia. this specific cause is on the homepage of worldvision.org.

we don't need our government's permission or action to make change in the world. get involved today! www.worldvision.org

gina, the new york times reports that somalia is being governed by an al queda inspired islamic regime that thinks that western, christian cultures have an agenda while trying to support the victims of this drought/famine. what's your position or thoughts on this?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 01:27 PM
Sully, I too have read the reports that Al Shabab do not want any foreigners in Somalia or any Muslim country for any reason because they know that intervention is seldom limited to giving humanitarian aid. The groups who want to provide humanitarian aid do not have any other agenda, but once you allow foreigners in the country, it opens the door to other nefarious people, such as Blackwater types who come in and wreak havoc at the behest of governmental regimes for their own political aims. That's a stark reality; The position of Al Qaida and affiliated resistance groups has been and still is, we do not need foreigners in our lands for any reason.

Their fight is to establish a caliphate, whereby the Muslim communities will take care of themselves, become self sustaining, give zakat (which is charity) to those in the communities who need it. The west and other cultures are not welcomed in Muslim lands because the west does not embody or accept Islam, so to allow Westerners and Christians in those lands does threaten preserving and protecting the religion of Islam.

Look at what is happening in Afghanistan since we have been there, the women in western wedding dresses that violate local social and cultural norms, even Karzai has objected to it. There is a degradation to their society happening by the infiltration of western culture into a land and people who are being dragged into ideas, customs they have not even had time to think about.

The US society and culture is based on secular law (which means the masses determine what they want and how they want things to be), secular law is in in contradiction to religious law on many issues (ie. homosexuality, abortion, etc. etc.). Democracy and westernization bring freedoms from that which has been prohibited to them under religious law, but they do not see that as liberating or desirable.

My own opinion is that non profits should be allowed to provide food, medical care and shelter to those who need it in Somalia. I think it is a humanitarian issue but the stakes are so high, the fighters do not feel they can take the risk of having outsiders there. The US has instituted a drone program to assassinate and control the people, looking just at the skies, would you want more Americans in your lands if you lived there?

Also, after what happened in Bosnia and Somalia during the Clinton administration, and events in Yemen that have taken place over the last year, obviously they do not want any outsiders in the country.





[Edited on 8/5/2011 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 01:47 PM
It's not in Somalia, but here is an example of Muslims taking care of other Muslims.

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2011/08/20118454513336949.htm l

The contention that they are doing it to gain support, in my opinion is insulting. They do it because it is their duty to give charity to those who need it, zakat is a religious mandate for all Muslims, and that is WHY they do it. Just this month alone, feeding 100,000 people, donating $1 million dollars to them to help them, visiting the families of 7,000 martyrs.

They help people all the time.

If the Muslims were able to set up their own regimes in other countries, they would take care of their people. As poor as Afghanistan was, under Mullah Omar's rule, all the women received monthly stipends to help support the households so they did not have to work, so they could stay home and raise their children.

They really don't want foreign aid, they want to be self sustaining, self governing, and to live in peace with dignity.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/5/2011 at 10:13 PM
quote:
It's not in Somalia, but here is an example of Muslims taking care of other Muslims.

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2011/08/20118454513336949.htm l

The contention that they are doing it to gain support, in my opinion is insulting. They do it because it is their duty to give charity to those who need it, zakat is a religious mandate for all Muslims, and that is WHY they do it. Just this month alone, feeding 100,000 people, donating $1 million dollars to them to help them, visiting the families of 7,000 martyrs.

They help people all the time.

If the Muslims were able to set up their own regimes in other countries, they would take care of their people. As poor as Afghanistan was, under Mullah Omar's rule, all the women received monthly stipends to help support the households so they did not have to work, so they could stay home and raise their children.

They really don't want foreign aid, they want to be self sustaining, self governing, and to live in peace with dignity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGBw8jS3sMw

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/6/2011 at 04:50 PM
quote:
i agree that governments do not care about countries like somalia and africa in general unless spoils are involved.

however, non-profits like world vision, the red cross, doctors without borders and others have genuine, authentic care for somalia. this specific cause is on the homepage of worldvision.org.

we don't need our government's permission or action to make change in the world. get involved today! www.worldvision.org
“If you think you’re too small to make a difference, you’ve never spent the night with a mosquito.” -African saying
quote:

They really don't want foreign aid, they want to be self sustaining, self governing, and to live in peace with dignity.
I'm not sure who 'they' are. But reports are that Al-Shabab has waffled and gone back and forth re: foreign aid so they have been willing to accept some. And my guess is that Al-Shabab are not among those who are suffering most and that their bellies and those of their children aren't bloated from starvation, their faces sunken back into skulls, their bodies reduced to skeletons. More than 29,000 children starved. to. death. in last 90 days, app. 650,000 children malnourished and in danger of following those 29.000, over 12 million in immediate need of assistance. And having any attempt by those in danger to save themselves through escape met by being interred in camps by these Al-Shabab. Where is the peace or dignity in that? (and IMO Al-Shabab positioning themselves under the blanket of the label 'Muslim' and attributing their crimes against humanity - against their own brethren - as acts of Islam is an affront to Muslims everywhere ... it is a disgrace to the Islam religion) News today is that Al-Shabab is retreating to allow the many suffering and/or at deaths door to have a chance at access to the aid that has been given by many throughout the world. Hopefully this is true. And hopefully there is nothing else that keeps those who suffer from that aid.
quote:
drives me crazy. Children are dying. I know someone will explain the logistical nightmare of this but something should be done.
It is heartbreaking, piacere. The reports are beyond imagination and the pictures ... As a parent I can't imagine being in such a hopeless position of having to watch your child waste away, knowing that there is food sitting nearby, and being powerless to provide. Somalia has been in dire straits for the 2 decades they have been afloat with no real government. On one hand you have the Al-Shabab denying people access to aid and on the other hand you have pirate 'soldiers' pilaging the donated food resources for their own materialistic gain (with both of those 'hands' capable and more than willing to resort to whatever violence they can justify in their twisted thinking). And in between you have the millions who are suffering. It drives me crazy, too... and I don't see how any of this can be explained.

[Edited on 8/6/2011 by lolasdeb]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/8/2011 at 01:11 AM
lolasdeb, do you feel the same way about Israel refusing to allow the humanitarian aid flotilla's to go to Gaza where unemployment is 43% and people are starving and dieing also? Israel could open the gates at the Rafah crossing and allow aid from Egypt, but they don't want to do that either.

Nobody points any blame at them. Do we just blame some groups and not others? Or do we wait till it is politically convenient and then say something. 24,000 people were slaughtered in Syria in 1986 for rising up and asking for change, but the UN did not hear about it or do anything till last week, it just wasn't an issue then.

If people cared about humanitarian problems, they would bring it up for world scrutiny at the time it happens, but how often does that occur?

Genocide has been happening in Rwanda for a long time, nobody says anything about it. It will only become an issue when there are natural resouces to acquire and divide up among foreign investors. That's when we will hear oh we have to liberate those poor people, they are letting children die.

Somalia is only an issue now, because the US wants that country, we have a nice drone program there to assassinate people. So they show starving children to rally public support for the genocide that is to come in the name of liberating the people.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 8/10/2011 at 09:25 AM
Jose Graziano da Silva
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/10/2011 at 12:00 PM
As Sam Kinison said, "Move to where the food is"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7ehccspao

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/15/2011 at 01:42 PM
These people are fcked up.


MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Thousands of sacks of food aid meant for Somalia's famine victims have been stolen and are being sold at markets in the same neighborhoods where skeletal children in filthy refugee camps can't find enough to eat, an Associated Press investigation has found.

The U.N.'s World Food Program for the first time acknowledged it has been investigating food theft in Somalia for two months. The WFP said that the "scale and intensity" of the famine crisis does not allow for a suspension of assistance, saying that doing so would lead to "many unnecessary deaths."

And the aid is not even safe once it has been distributed to families huddled in the makeshift camps popping up around the capital. Families at the large, government-run Badbado camp, where several aid groups have been distributing food, said they were often forced to hand back aid after journalists had taken photos of them with it.

Ali Said Nur said he received two sacks of maize twice, but each time was forced to give one to the camp leader.

"You don't have a choice. You have to simply give without an argument to be able to stay here," he said.

The U.N. says more than 3.2 million Somalis - nearly half the population - need food aid after a severe drought that has been complicated by Somalia's long-running war. More than 450,000 Somalis live in famine zones controlled by al-Qaida-linked militants, where aid is difficult to deliver. The U.S. says 29,000 Somali children under the age of 5 already have died.

International officials have long expected some of the food aid pouring into Somalia to go missing. But the sheer scale of the theft taking place calls into question aid groups' ability to reach the starving. It also raises concerns about the willingness of aid agencies and the Somali government to fight corruption, and whether diverted aid is fueling Somalia's 20-year-civil war.

"While helping starving people, you are also feeding the power groups that make a business out of the disaster," said Joakim Gundel, who heads Katuni Consult, a Nairobi-based company often asked to evaluate international aid efforts in Somalia. "You're saving people's lives today so they can die tomorrow."

WFP Somalia country director Stefano Porretti said the agency's system of independent, third-party monitors uncovered allegations of possible food diversion. But he underscored how dangerous the work is: WFP has had 14 employees killed in Somalia since 2008.

"Monitoring food assistance in Somalia is a particularly dangerous process," Porretti said.

In Mogadishu markets, vast piles of food sacks are for sale with stamps on them from the World Food Program, the U.S. government aid arm USAID and the Japanese government. The AP found eight sites where aid food was being sold in bulk and numerous smaller stores. Among the items being sold were corn, grain, and Plumpy'nut - a specially fortified peanut butter designed for starving children.

An official in Mogadishu with extensive knowledge of the food trade said he believes a massive amount of aid is being stolen - perhaps up to half of aid deliveries - by unscrupulous businessmen. The percentage had been lower, he said, but in recent weeks the flood of aid into the capital with little or no controls has created a bonanza for businessmen.

The official, like the businessmen interviewed for this story, spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid reprisals.

The AP could not verify the official's claims. WFP said that it rejected the scale of diversions alleged by the official.

At one of the sites for stolen food aid, about a dozen corrugated iron sheds are stacked with sacks. Outside, women sell food from open 110-pound (50-kilogram) sacks, and traders load the food onto carts or vehicles under the indifferent eyes of local officials.

Stolen food aid is not new in Somalia - it's the main reason the U.S. military become involved in Somalia during the country's 1992 famine, an intervention that ended shortly after the military battle known as Black Hawk Down. There are no indications the military plans to get involved in this year's famine relief efforts.

WFP said in a statement that it has put into place "strengthened and rigorous" monitoring and control in Somalia.

"However, given the lack of access to much of the territory due to security dangers and restrictions, humanitarian supply lines remain highly vulnerable to looting, attack and diversion by armed groups," WFP told the AP.

Somali government spokesman Abdirahman Omar Osman said the government does not believe food aid is being stolen on a large scale but if such reports come to light, the government "will do everything in our power" to bring judicial action.

The AP investigation also found evidence that WFP is relying on a contractor blamed for diverting large amounts of food aid in a 2010 U.N. report

Eight Somali businessmen said they bought food from the contractor, Abdulqadir Mohamed Nur, who is known as Enow. His wife heads Saacid, a powerful Somali aid agency that WFP uses to distribute hot food. The official with extensive knowledge of the food trade said at some Saacid sites it appeared less than half the amount of food supplied was being prepared.

Attempts to reach Enow or his wife for comment were not successful.


 

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  posted on 8/15/2011 at 04:24 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The short and unfortunate answer is, IMO, by and large, the rest of the world doesn't give a $hit about Africa.


Including many on the continent of Africa.

Famines are rarely caused by actual weather conditions/patterns. Most are caused by maniacal people.

PJ O’Rourke, in All the Trouble in the World actually highlights the Somalia issue and does a good, and funny job (even though its not a funny topic), explaining the situation there. For his chapter on famine (“All Guns, No Butter”) he goes to Somalia and discovers that there’s plenty of food, you just have to be armed to get it.


fine. Let's go in, wipe out Al Shabab, give all the residents .38's. Problem solved.

somewhat sarcastic...but there has to be an answer. How can we live in a world where little children are dying by the hundreds of thousands? It boggles the mind...


Not trying to sound cruel or indifferent but people including children have been starving for thousands of years only difference now is we have more people which equates to more numbers starving.... sad but true just part of the animal world...

 

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