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Author: Subject: gregg allman suing "sharing the groove"???

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 12/30/2003 at 06:39 PM
I thought some of you might find this interesting...

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30436

BTW, what is "rock suitcase"? There were a lot of nasty comments aimed at Gregg and the ABB (gotta love them boycotts...lol), but I guess even **** s are entitled to an opinion. Of course I would have to agree with some of the negativity if this lawsuit thing were true, which I am sure it is not.

I really do wish though that the powers that be would reconsider allowing the use of electronic trading for ABB shows...it is so annoying that so much music by so many bands can be shared that way, but not the ABB. Some people might even figure out that they do another song besides Ramblin' Man...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/30/2003 at 06:49 PM
rocksuitcase.com There is just a mention.
The way rumors have been flying around here lately it could just be a rumor but if Gregg is suing he does have every right to do so. He has made it pretty clear what he feels about file sharing.

 

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  posted on 12/30/2003 at 09:47 PM
I hope that the idea of Gregg suing that site is just a rumour.
But I have seen some of his solo work being offered for download there.
So, he does have a right to sue.

As for the Gregg/ABB haters/boycotters, well let them stay ignorant.
I don't like the download policy either; but I certainly wouldn't "boycott" a musician because of their preference for or against it.

 

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  posted on 12/30/2003 at 10:19 PM
There's a bit more than the usual ignorance in that thread.

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 12:19 AM
Yeah really, what an a**hole that guy was. He probably had a good point about Gregg though back in the day. I wish he'd go see him now and see the difference. I bet he would change his mind.
 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 12:37 AM
They are a bunch of spoiled whiney boys.

Its not hard to ABB shows. You just have to
come here to the trade forums and ask.

But that would take some effort on their part.
They just want to do a google search and download it at will.

Punks

Peace
John

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 03:13 AM
John,

But what's wrong with wanting to find an easy download? I don't have a high-speed connection unfortunately, but I do recognise that this is the way forward & represents the true future of trading.

Denza hit the nail on the head on this one, as having a few shows out there for download has the possibility of really opening people's minds to the ABB - as the years go by, there are going to be more & more kids out there who are interested in the "jambands" scene (yeuch! My apologies for using that revolting phrase!) who won't be checking out the ABB's music, simply because it isn't there for download - yes, it IS laziness, but that is the nature of the world these days, & it's time to do something positive about it.

Of course, there is a partial solution: make audience downloads of ABB shows available, but only accessible by links from this site - anyone putting a show up for download needs to register first, thereby keeping a bit of control over the process & what's made available.

Sadly, people calling Gregg names on other websites isn't exactly going to help endear the cause to him...

 
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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 09:07 AM
I don't have a high speed connection, so I am unable to download shows. But I do often like to view the lists at bt.etree.org and sharingthegroove.org, just to see what shows are available for trading. Often these days shows are first coming into circulation through bit torrent and SHN or FLAC offers, so it's a nice way to see what is circulating.

Anyway, I have had some contact with people who post at sharing the groove. Some very kind, generous, happy people that were an absolute pleasure to trade with Others..not so much

If I see a post that I can help out with, then I will write and offer a trade or something. There is a wide range of styles available there, and I think it depends on the bands or type of music you are looking for. Two things that really turn me off. Several times I have offered mail trades to people and they are only interested in 2 for 1 deals where I send twice as many discs as I get back. I don't really like that very much. I don't mind sending freebies at all (In fact I often truly enjoy sending surprises to others), but being mandated to send more then you get in return just seems against the spirit of trading.

One time I saw someone post that they were looking for a GD show that I have had for years. I wrote and offered them a trade and even planned to thow in a freebie or two. And it turns out the guy wanted absolutely nothing to do with trading. He was angry with me that I had the show available and would not post it in Bit-Torrent format. God forbid he had to wait a couple days to complete a trade!! I remember in the old days I used to trade via snail mail letters. Sometimes it would take months...if I ever heard back at all. There are just a lot of spoiled people out there.

But I would say again that the problem people are the exception to the rule and the overwhelming majority of people that I have met through various trading sites, including sharing the groove, are kind good people.

Of course, this ABB site is the best of the best. Happy New Year my friends

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 11:31 AM
Good posts Denza and Paul.
BTW on SharingtheGroove and Furthur (and some other sites too) it's officially posted that the ABB (band / management / record company ) do not allow ABB shows to be offered for download. Not as mp3 and not as SHN / FLAC / Wav.
Those shows that DO get posted normally get response with a link to the statement of the ABB and the download / torrent will be removed.
Still on all those sites Warren Haynes Solo , Gov't Mule , DTB , DB & GS , GAB , FW and GA & F shows are offered and are accepted. So i think that the policy is for ABB shows only and not solo efforts. For that reason i do not think that Gregg Allman will sue the site.

BTW since this policy was stated and respected by the before mentioned sites i saw an increase of tapes , bootlegs , and even worse, CD-rs of these (and Instant live shows)
being offered for hard cash on Ebay. So the whole damn policy is back firing.
Now the wrong people are making a profit all over again. Liberate them bootlegs / tapes and offer them for trade or as freebie by making them available for download!

The best and coolest way that get a great collection of tunes is not snailmail trades only
nor saying "that's a thing of the past; everything should be made downloadable as a bit torrent", nope the best is a combination of both.

Eat A Peach fellow ABBholics and happy New Year !!!!

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 12:49 PM
Right you are DutchFan, and that is good suggestion Paul. One of the things I prefer about e-trading (not just Bit Torrent), is that you get the shows in a loseless format and have the assurance of a file integrity check. You avoid all the TAO, burn-on-the-fly, and diginoise from a bad burn issues and keeps the digital gene pool intact. I also like that you get a info file with setlist and source when known. Even cover art if that is your thing. Plus, it saves all the paper and postage and you can burn on whatever type of discs that suits you. There are just a lot of advantages to me...I have also made many friends through this type of trading (including DC & FTP) and have found just as strong a sense of community.

I wish a Happy New Year to everyone!!!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 01:59 PM
The point many of the punks bitching about the ABB
at these sites are missing is that the ABB own
the copyright and they get to make the rules about
how the materail is distributed. Be grateful they
allow taping and trading, most bands don't allow it at all.

Just because you "want" to download shows
doesn't give you that right.

The thing about trading is it is not anonymous.
I've made some friends with trades. I believe
this is part of the reason for the ABB policy.

I never made any friends with a download, although
I do appreciate those that post and share files via
http or bittorrent.

And I am grateful for the folks that offer trades
and freebies here. Y'all are good people.

Peace
John

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 03:23 PM
quote:
The point many of the punks bitching about the ABB
at these sites are missing is that the ABB own
the copyright and they get to make the rules about
how the materail is distributed.


I would never argue this and I don't think most of the users at STG would either. I still have not seen that Gregg is suing, and will be surprised if he does. Looks like one trouble maker is working for the Dept of Making Crap Up and having fun with it.

That said. I just finished downloading Govt Mules 12/29 Beacon Show and hope 12/30 is posted soon. The technology is amazing! Bands should work with the technology. As an older fan I never broke through on Phish. They offered a couple of shows for free, SHN's for download. I brought them down and ran them as background while surfin'. I started to dig it. Thought hmmmmm.

Went back to their site and started reading fan comments and fan reviews. Realized, with so many reviews, you could pick the best shows. I was surprised at the size and depth of their community. I went on to purchase and download shows, including the show w/BB King at the Meadowlands, and gained respect for the band and community. Phish is giving all their net profits from the site to charities now.

IMO - Unbelievably smart move.

Music distribution is changing. I'd rather be on the wagon than under the wheel again.

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 04:10 PM
Billy - Great point. Bands like the Grateful Dead and Allmans have survived and propspered for years on the basis of their live performance. Allowing free taping and free non-commercial distribution of their shows has been extremely positive for fans, fan interest, increased the fan base, and been very profitable for the bands.

Digital recordings and digital file sharing via the Internet is just another distribution vehicle for the music. Hopefully these bands, and many more bands, will continue to allow their music to be distributed free of charge with whatever distribution vehicle that is used.

But many bands, record companies, etc are worried about the copyright issues, the ever increasing quality of the audience recordings available, and the influence on CD sales. DVD's have already taken a huge chunk of the sales originally gobbled up by the CD market. More and more they are diving in to fee based music downloading. But it's so early in that game we'll just have to see what happens.

Jerry Garcia's view of the whole thing was that music is free. He plays it for the band and the audience, as a reflection of that particular moment in time, and once it is played, it is "out there" and available to everyone. Then that moment is gone, and there will be another one at some point in the future. That vision fueled the GD's tape trading policy, but unfortunately there is only one Jerry Garcia! Not every musician feels that way. I wonder what he would have thought about Instant Live and the Dead Summer Getaway packages? Regardless, it is their music, their art, their copyright, and they have the right to protect it to the extent legally possible if they choose to do so.


[Edited on 12/31/2003 by merlin28]

 

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  posted on 12/31/2003 at 04:39 PM
What everyone has to realize is that this is a "new" format. These things take time, because of copyright issues, and other legal ties to various distribution companies, labels etc. It's not always in everyone's best interest to just on the bandwagon with this kind of thing. There are usually lots of details that we are largely unaware of. Many times, artists don't own, or have any ownership at all, in the publishing companies that have published the majority of their own songs. Some artists have contracts with labels and/or distribution companies that absolutely forbid them to give their music to anyone else, and other artists are involved in random lawsuits, where doing anything with their music can be used "against" them. - Beyond that, tie this to the fact that it is a "new" format and people want to see where it is going and how it's going to work to benefit everyone in the best possible way, and you'll find that MANY artists are hold-outs. - It's just impatient people who can't deal with it. - AND the reality is that regardless of whether the artist/company's decision to hold off with something like this is valid or not, it still needs to be respected and understood. If it is abused, the consequences need to be expected.

People can sit and "theorize" about what a jerk someone is because they are rumoured to be involved in a lawsuit, but it really just shows their own ignorance. There are always facts that we don't see... Also, it seems to me if I thought someone was a "drunk" or a "bore" or whatever, I wouldn't've went to see them live 5 times! hee hee.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2004 at 08:23 AM
quote:
Digital recordings and digital file sharing via the Internet is just another distribution vehicle for the music. Hopefully these bands, and many more bands, will continue to allow their music to be distributed free of charge with whatever distribution vehicle that is used.

I agree, but I have to admit I think the band's argument against this makes some sense. The main point seems to be that one-to-one trading helped build the community vibe that we enjoy today, and internet sharing has much greater distribution potential with none of the personal contact. I think it's a fair comment. But there are a lot of great things about the technology and it's not going away. The policy seems a little behind the times at this point, but I don't think the band will change it now.

 

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  posted on 1/4/2004 at 04:12 PM
Marley, Yea, I understand your point completely. It's not like regular 1 on 1 trading because downloading gives you the option to get a hold of the music with no personal contact at all.

Also I think many of the bands, and the music industry in general, are concerned because many of these files are being traded in lossless formats like SHN and FLAC. As traders and or tapers, and consumers of music, we love lossless formats because the jams sound just as good no matter how many times you copy it!! But I think that technology and that option scares the heck out of the recording industry. Some of these audience tapes sound as good or better than commercially released CDs.

 
 


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