Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2    3  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Why did ABB do Mtn Jam?

Peach Head





Posts: 69
(69 all sites)
Registered: 2/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/13/2011 at 11:22 AM
Does anybody know how ABB came up with the idea of jamming on Donovan's song There is a Mountain? It was not in their usual vein of blues covers and they never covered anything else similar to There is a Mountain. In all the reading I've done it is obvious that they were blues and jazz fans but I don't recall any reference as to why they would be into Donovan and why they would choose that song to jam on.

[Edited on 4/13/2011 by northernbrother]

 
Replies:

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4506
(4574 all sites)
Registered: 4/13/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/13/2011 at 01:47 PM
I think it was inspired by jazz and the idea of taking a melody and expanding on it...much in the way John Coltrane took My Favorite Things and made it what it is today in the jamband and jazz scene. It was a way to feature each band member and to take music to it's limit and creative peak. Plus the dead did a tease on one of their early live LP's and I'm sure Duane heard that plus Paul Butterfield Blues band's East West was probably an influence

 

____________________
Believin' is alright just don't believe in the wrong thing....Sonny Boy Williamson

 
E-Mail User

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 69
(69 all sites)
Registered: 2/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/13/2011 at 03:27 PM
Do you know which tune the Dead did the tease on? I'd be interested in checking that out. Butterfield's East/West is a huge favourite of mine. Apparently there is a live East/West recording but I haven't run across it.
 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/13/2011 at 03:31 PM
quote:
Do you know which tune the Dead did the tease on? I'd be interested in checking that out. Butterfield's East/West is a huge favourite of mine. Apparently there is a live East/West recording but I haven't run across it.


At about the 9:00 mark on "Alligator" off Anthem of the Sun is one. I've heard it on other Alligators, too.

Go here and go to about the 2:40 mark and listen for, oh, 30-40 seconds or so. You'll hear Garcia do some Mt Jam phrasing in passing...it's very short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-H3Aoak3c

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5249
(5255 all sites)
Registered: 6/7/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/13/2011 at 03:38 PM
Great question...great post! More...More!

 

____________________
"There's only two kinds of music...The Blues and Zip-A-Dee-Do-Dah"- Townes Van Zandt

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/13/2011 at 03:53 PM
Jorma Kaukonen's AUD from 5/18/68 Santa Clara Fairgrounds...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1968-05-18.aud.dad.82515.flac16

In the second half of Alligator after Drums, There's very distinctive Mt Jam/There Is A Mountain phrasing by Garcia at 5:45.

This recording also includes a snippet of a young Bobby Weir being "interviewed" by Jorma... "F--K the proletariat!"

Oh, and a killer Caution too...

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4937
(4936 all sites)
Registered: 3/28/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 04:30 AM
4/23/69 during the Alligator jam post drums.
I'll have to listen again to get the timing.

iirc, they also did it a few times in 73

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 08:56 AM
I've really never understood how the ABB could claim writing credit for Mountain Jam when it was pretty clear that the Dead were doing it years before the Brothers...

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1907
(1909 all sites)
Registered: 3/16/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 10:13 AM
quote:
I've really never understood how the ABB could claim writing credit for Mountain Jam when it was pretty clear that the Dead were doing it years before the Brothers...


Well, really, the dead just jammed Donovan's melody. The ABB play it too but expanded it to a long jam and credited Donovan and themselves (for their own improvisations). For example that opposite melody that is played in the beginning is original, so they should be credited.

I don't mean disrespect to the Dead (I'm a huge fan) but they don't really need any credit for the ABB covering or riffing on someone else's music. That is like my band giving credit to another band for covering a song before we covered it.

I do agree that the ABB were just using the "jazz" idea of expanding on a melody. And of course Warren, Oteil & Derek do that all of the time and "quote" other songs in their solos. - In fact the ABB all the way back to the beginning has always structured a lot of their jamming more like standard jazz. Doing an "A" section a "B" section and the improvising on a chord structure, going back to an "A" section etc...

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 25201
(25201 all sites)
Registered: 9/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 10:14 AM
quote:
I've really never understood how the ABB could claim writing credit for Mountain Jam when it was pretty clear that the Dead were doing it years before the Brothers...


They gave credit to Donovan for the tune. And took credit for their exploration of that tune.

Why would they give the dead the credit for a Donovan tune? or for the dead's interpretation that is different than their own exploration?

 

____________________
Keep on Smiling


 

Peach Head



Karma:
Posts: 69
(69 all sites)
Registered: 2/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 11:01 AM
Thanks for the info Bhawk. I've been a fan of the Dead ever since around 1970 when a draft dodger moved to our town (in Ontario) and started a bookstore. All he had was a backpack and in it was a copy of American Beauty/Reality. The cover was curved to the shape of his pack. I listened to the early stuff but I guess I never noticed the Mountain quote. Maybe I was partying and it just drifted by me.
 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1142
(1142 all sites)
Registered: 4/16/2007
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 11:29 AM
Like in many great compositions, first the theme is stated. Then variations on the main theme using melodic structure are played before restating the main theme. Beethoven and Brahm would be two examples of this approach.
 

Extreme Peach



Karma:
Posts: 1778
(1787 all sites)
Registered: 11/20/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 12:38 PM
Why did ABB do Mtn Jam?

...because Donovan needed a steady stream of income......

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 2854
(2854 all sites)
Registered: 8/20/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 04:28 PM
quote:
I think it was inspired by jazz and the idea of taking a melody and expanding on it...much in the way John Coltrane took My Favorite Things and made it what it is today in the jamband and jazz scene. It was a way to feature each band member and to take music to it's limit and creative peak. Plus the dead did a tease on one of their early live LP's and I'm sure Duane heard that plus Paul Butterfield Blues band's East West was probably an influence

Did I read or hear Duane say that he would like to take My Favorite Thing and do an arrangement as ther next Mtn Jam? Think I either read it in one of the bio's or maybe it was in an article or interview?

 

____________________
"Leave the Ego at Home, Play the Music, Love the People "-Luther Allison.

"Troops be awful quiet tonight, is it early or what? Too high. Me too." Duane Allman

Life Aint what it seems, its a Boulevard of Broken Dreams

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 25201
(25201 all sites)
Registered: 9/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 04:41 PM
quote:
Why did ABB do Mtn Jam?

...because Donovan needed a steady stream of income......


He sold a lot more records than the ABB at that time.

just saying

 

____________________
Keep on Smiling


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 25201
(25201 all sites)
Registered: 9/7/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 04:42 PM
quote:
Like in many great compositions, first the theme is stated. Then variations on the main theme using melodic structure are played before restating the main theme. Beethoven and Brahm would be two examples of this approach.



I think the brothers were more into Coltrane and Miles than Beethoven and Brahms

 

____________________
Keep on Smiling


 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 18636
(18696 all sites)
Registered: 2/9/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 04:47 PM
quote:
I think it was inspired by jazz and the idea of taking a melody and expanding on it...much in the way John Coltrane took My Favorite Things and made it what it is today in the jam band and jazz scene. It was a way to feature each band member and to take music to it's limit and creative peak.


Bingo!

 

____________________


 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 11675
(12118 all sites)
Registered: 1/8/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 05:47 PM
I always get a chuckle out of this excerpt from a Donovan interview:

quote:
Q: I have just a couple more questions if you have some time. Just a personal curiosity. Not many people know that the Allman Brothers Band famous 'Mountain Jam' is inspired by your 'There Is a Mountain' song. So I'm just very curious to know if you ever discussed with the people in the Allman Brothers Band about that particular song. The 'Mountain Jam' is a kind of landmark to the Allman Brothers Band. the Allman Brothers Band music is so different from your music...I thought maybe you were friends?.

A: No, we didn't...we briefly met when once, with one of the Allman brothers', his name is Gregg. Who's the other brother's name?

Q: Duane

A: Who's the guy who died?

Q: Duane

A: Duane. Gregg is still alive?

Q: Yes

A: It was Gregg when he was with Cher and that was fifteen years ago (not really, this is a note by me, it must have being at least 30 years ago). He was dating Cher and they were in Berlin and I didn't get a chance to talk but I said 'hello' and I said 'thank you' for that jam' because it's fantastic when a great band covers your song. 'Season Of The Witch' also has been jammed by Steven Stills and Al Kooper in a super session and the 'Mountain Jam' of course and it's so cool to have these kinds of songs that bands groove on. Led Zeppelin used to rehearse…begin the rehearsal with 'Season of the Witch' because it made the balance of the band correct. The arrangement was so simple and so full of groove that the drums and the bass and the guitars and the keyboards could be balanced easy and also the band could enjoy the sound check....ha-ha....and not play their own songs. They could play that and so I love 'Mountain Jam', yeah.


http://rocknrollcircus.altervista.org/Interviste/Donovan.htm

 

____________________
We'd all like to vote for the best man, but he's never a candidate.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 29713
(29846 all sites)
Registered: 12/13/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/14/2011 at 05:56 PM
quote:
quote:
I think it was inspired by jazz and the idea of taking a melody and expanding on it...much in the way John Coltrane took My Favorite Things and made it what it is today in the jam band and jazz scene. It was a way to feature each band member and to take music to it's limit and creative peak.


Bingo!



Absolutely. I totally agree.

It's just the Dead took the same song / melody and expanded on it much the same way the Allmans did, but well over a year before the ABB started doing it. That's the only reason I always thought it was weird that the ABB claimed writing credit with Donovan, when the Dead was doing the same thing a year before.

Now, sure the Allmans jammed it out for incredible lengths way more than the Dead. But that's just "featuring each band member and improvising on a chord structure."

The Dead took the original song and played around with the melody well before the Allmans did.

 

____________________
Your neighborhood brewery and tap house - yes! we're now open! Like us on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/FranklinStreetBrewing

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/19/2011 at 02:48 PM
Found another Alligator with a jam on the Mt. Jam melody...1/22/68

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1968-01-22.sbd.miller.97342.sbeok.flac16

Starts at about 8:30 of Alligator...Garcia plays the actual melody line just once, but then spends about, oh, the next two minutes or so expanding on the theme.



 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5069
(5069 all sites)
Registered: 7/18/2010
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/19/2011 at 05:27 PM
Just be glad it wasn't two album sides of "Atlantis"

or "I Love My Shirt"

 

Peach Pro



Karma:
Posts: 410
(410 all sites)
Registered: 2/24/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/20/2011 at 07:49 PM
This is always a way cool conversation. My two cents is that in various interviews ABB members have noted how they were into the Dead early on. For example in the bonus/interview section of the Dickey Betts and Great Southern Live At the RnR Hall of Fame dvd Dickey describes how they were into the Dead and then JJ turned them onto Miles and Coltrane... so it makes a lot of sense that they picked up Mtn Jam from that brief passage on Anthem of the Sun (one of the coolest albums ever!) and developed it with a jazz sensibility.

[Edited on 5/21/2011 by HillbillyHank]

 

A Peach Supreme



Karma:
Posts: 1036
(2423 all sites)
Registered: 12/29/2009
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/20/2011 at 10:38 PM
Lord of the Ring

 

____________________

 

Universal Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6612
(6612 all sites)
Registered: 11/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/21/2011 at 07:03 AM
Because it's awesome!

Seriously though, I think they did it precisely because it wasn't like the blues covers that comprised a lot of their early material. It provided contrast to songs like "Statesboro Blues" and showed that the ABB were more than just a blues-rock band.

I would agree that this song is to the ABB as "My Favorite Things" is to Coltrane. A very catchy, durable melody from pop music that is a perfect launching pad for extended improvisation.

Whatever reasons they had for playing it, I'm sure glad they did!

 
E-Mail User

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20227
(20241 all sites)
Registered: 9/22/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/21/2011 at 11:09 AM
quote:
Why did ABB do Mtn Jam?



Because it is there.

 

____________________
If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. -Mahatma Gandhi.

 
<<  1    2    3  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software


Privacy | Terms of Service
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com