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Author: Subject: DADT Repealed

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 08:19 PM
quote:
quote:
First, scientific knowledge about ourselves and the world around us is good. I'm interested in the science of it. I'm also fascinated by the seeming need for so many that there be no choice involved in the behavior, specifically homosexual behavior. Would it be just as okay for someone to be born with a predispostion to be attracted to members of the same sex but chose not to act on it, or to engage in heterosexual relationships?


"Seeming need?"

I don't believe we have a "choice" over who we are attracted to. To me it seems like you are going the long way to say that homosexuality is wrong because there is no scientific proof to justify such a "lifestyle choice" and that even though you may be attracted to a member of the same sex, "acting on it by choice" is wrong because it fits a specific personal or religious theorem. I, personally think that's wrong and judgmental in and of itself, but I could be way off base, however.

The "seeming need" I'm talking about is for those defending homosexuality that it not be a choice. I just find that fascinating. Why should it matter so much that it not be a choice? Again, I've said absolutely nothing about the "right or wrong" of homosexuality in any of these threads, or about "justifying" any choices one might make. I find the conclusion you and others have come to about my motivations fascinating as well. The line of thinking seems to belong to you and others that if it is a choice, and people choose it, it is wrong. I've never said or implied that, only that all human behavior, including all sexual behavior, is a choice. The rest is you.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 08:27 PM
quote:
We recently had a long discussion that included this idea here in the WP. As of yet, as far as any of us were able to determine, there has been no gene isolated that determines a predispostion for sexual preference. Could you post a link to the information you have stating otherwise?
Also, could you site some sources that explain scientifically human behavior is not a choice?


US researchers find evidence that homosexuality linked to genetics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa

Homosexual behavior due to genetics and environmental factors
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/28/homosexual.behavior.due.genetic s.and.environmental.factors

How homosexuality is 'inherited' Scientists say they have shown how male homosexuality could be passed from generation to generation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3735668.stm

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 08:29 PM
Sometimes, Doug, it really isn't all about you. Seriously, my comments were in general to reflect previous conversations with other posters and their opinions.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 08:42 PM
quote:
quote:
We recently had a long discussion that included this idea here in the WP. As of yet, as far as any of us were able to determine, there has been no gene isolated that determines a predispostion for sexual preference. Could you post a link to the information you have stating otherwise?
Also, could you site some sources that explain scientifically human behavior is not a choice?


US researchers find evidence that homosexuality linked to genetics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa

Homosexual behavior due to genetics and environmental factors
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/28/homosexual.behavior.due.genetic s.and.environmental.factors

How homosexuality is 'inherited' Scientists say they have shown how male homosexuality could be passed from generation to generation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3735668.stm

From the gaurdian:
While sexual behaviour may be chosen, the preponderance of researchers say attraction is dictated by biology, with no demonstrated contribution from social factors such as parenting or other factors after birth.

A host of studies since the mid-1990s have found common biological traits between gay men, including left-handedness and the direction of hair whorls. The likelihood that if one identical twin is gay, the other will be also be gay is much higher than the "concordance" of homosexuality between fraternal twins, indicating that genes play a role in sexual orientation, but are not the entire cause

And the other articles make the same basic premise. This is exactly what I was saying.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 08:43 PM
quote:
Sometimes, Doug, it really isn't all about you. Seriously, my comments were in general to reflect previous conversations with other posters and their opinions.


Understood.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 09:47 PM
quote:
The "seeming need" I'm talking about is for those defending homosexuality that it not be a choice. I just find that fascinating. Why should it matter so much that it not be a choice? Again, I've said absolutely nothing about the "right or wrong" of homosexuality in any of these threads, or about "justifying" any choices one might make.


Hmmm. You seem, to me, to contridict yourself there. I find equally as fascinating your use of the words "defending homosexuality." Usually when someone uses the word "defend" they are using in somewhat of an angered context showing disgust that someone would "defend" something. What is it that you find so fascinating?

Turned around the other way, why is it so important that it is a choice to those who abhor homosexuality? To those who try to have people's homosexuality "deprogrammed?" To them, it is a 100% choice and they have judged that choice to be wrong, do they not?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/27/2010 at 10:28 PM
quote:
quote:
The "seeming need" I'm talking about is for those defending homosexuality that it not be a choice. I just find that fascinating. Why should it matter so much that it not be a choice? Again, I've said absolutely nothing about the "right or wrong" of homosexuality in any of these threads, or about "justifying" any choices one might make.


Hmmm. You seem, to me, to contridict yourself there. I find equally as fascinating your use of the words "defending homosexuality." Usually when someone uses the word "defend" they are using in somewhat of an angered context showing disgust that someone would "defend" something. What is it that you find so fascinating?

Turned around the other way, why is it so important that it is a choice to those who abhor homosexuality? To those who try to have people's homosexuality "deprogrammed?" To them, it is a 100% choice and they have judged that choice to be wrong, do they not?

I really didn't know how else to state that; "approve" of homosexuality seems loaded, but I guess any way you state it could be taken that way. It is the insistence that there be no choice in the matter that I find fascinating, that the possibility of choice somehow equates to "wrong". I think it is equally fascinating that some could deny the distinct possibility of a genetic predispostion, as if that would somehow negate the issue of choice. I fully believe that at some point a true genetic link to predispostion will be found, but I also fully understand the act, or behavior, is a choice, as is all human behavior. If someone chooses that behavior that is their business, not mine. The emotional loading on both sides of the issue, and the conclusions about others that people draw are, well, fascinating to me. I'm not angry at homosexuals or disgusted by the behavior, but you have apparently drawn such a conclusion. I've been labeled a rascist, a bigot, someone who equates homosexual behavior on a par with rape and pedophilia, and someone who wants all homosexuals locked up or wiped off the face of the planet because I point out that the behavior is a choice, as do the articles ST posted. None of these things are true about me or what I believe. That is what I find so fascinating. I get accused of all sorts of liberal leanings here in Texas (the horror!) because I point out there is most likely a genetic predispostion to be attracted to partners of the same sex in those engaging in homosexual behavior. Fascinating.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 10:06 AM
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I've been labeled a rascist, a bigot, someone who equates homosexual behavior on a par with rape and pedophilia, and someone who wants all homosexuals locked up or wiped off the face of the planet because I point out that the behavior is a choice, as do the articles ST posted. None of these things are true about me or what I believe.


I don't think you are any of those things, Doug. Worst thing I can call you is a Cowboy fan.

I think we have been talking about two different things and I also think we actually agree on more here than we disagree.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 10:10 AM
quote:
quote:
I've been labeled a rascist, a bigot, someone who equates homosexual behavior on a par with rape and pedophilia, and someone who wants all homosexuals locked up or wiped off the face of the planet because I point out that the behavior is a choice, as do the articles ST posted. None of these things are true about me or what I believe.


I don't think you are any of those things, Doug. Worst thing I can call you is a Cowboy fan.

I think we have been talking about two different things and I also think we actually agree on more here than we disagree.


I agree.
And congrats to the Chiefs. Bastids.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 11:19 AM
can you both agree on the glory and mightiness of the beloved Patriots?
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 12:14 PM
No.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 01:01 PM
Did someone say something?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 08:01 PM
No.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/28/2010 at 08:13 PM
Ahhhh...the sound of silence.

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 
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