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Author: Subject: healthcare bill

Universal Peach





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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 11:45 AM
Kinda thought there would be some discussion about this bill here.
CBO saying the bill will cost $940 billion+ over the next 10 years.
Taxes and fees paid by 'us' for 10 years, covered for 6 years as I understand it.
Rasmussen poll today has 52% opposed, 45% of that number are 'strongly' opposed.
As with most everything the government undertakes, the cost projections always
run much more than projected. I figure this wont be any different.
Personally, I think it is a terrible bill that we do not need or want. Reform yes, but not this. I believe the consequences will be disastrous for this country if passed.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 12:01 PM
quote:
Kinda thought there would be some discussion about this bill here.
CBO saying the bill will cost $940 billion+ over the next 10 years.
Taxes and fees paid by 'us' for 10 years, covered for 6 years as I understand it.
Rasmussen poll today has 52% opposed, 45% of that number are 'strongly' opposed.
As with most everything the government undertakes, the cost projections always
run much more than projected. I figure this wont be any different.
Personally, I think it is a terrible bill that we do not need or want. Reform yes, but not this. I believe the consequences will be disastrous for this country if passed.


We are (as a result of both parties over the last 20 years) spending ourselves into decline. Seems like most of Europe is too. Obama (and this may get me karmatized) as much as he professes to be about non-partisan politics and including everyone views any dissent as an attack. Yes, the republicans stonewall, but it would be more difficult for them with a more reasonable compromise bill. I CAN SAY AS A PHYSICIAN THAT THE UNINSURED; UNDERINSURED; ILLEGALS ARE MUCH SICKER THAN THOSE IN THE SYSTEM ALREADY. THE COST OF THIS BILL IS A SEVER UNDERESTIMATION. Unless our nation starts to accept limitations in our "entitlements" the financial end is near.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 12:34 PM
You forgot to mention that this bill, as projected by the Congressional Budget office, cuts the deficit by $138 billion over that ten year period and an additional $1.2 Trillion in the decade following. And there's that little thing about 32 million additional Americans being covered.

It also reduces Medicare expenditures by 1.4 percent annually while extending Medicare's solvency by at least nine years. Oh and a few restrictions on insurance companies. Like denying coverage for pre existing conditions, etc.....

Not a perfect bill by any means but it certainly addresses some problems which will only get worse if we allow the status quo for another 10 years.

[Edited on 3/18/2010 by Chain]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 12:42 PM
quote:
You forgot to mention that this bill, as projected by the Congressional Budget office, cuts the deficit by $138 billion over that ten year period and an additional $1.2 Trillion in the decade following. And there's that little thing about 32 million additional Americans being covered.

It also reduces Medicare expenditures by 1.4 percent annually while extending Medicare's solvency by at least nine years. Oh and a few restrictions on insurance companies. Like denying coverage for pre existing conditions, etc.....

Not a perfect bill by any means but it certainly addresses some problems which will only get worse if we allow the status quo for another 10 years.

[Edited on 3/18/2010 by Chain]


1 - I hate insurance companies, but re: pre-existing allowing people to buy insurance after they are sick is like buying insurance after you crack your car up. Yes, there needs to be some socializayion of helath care - THIS WILL INCUR HIGHER EXPENSES THAN PERMITED

2 - I am not so much opposed to the plan as I am stating that the "savings" projections are unreal. We are talking about cutting payment all over the place to hospitals, physicians for sicker and sicker people. The real way to save money is stopping payment for people who are so sick that they do no good. NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY WANTS TO BE RATIONED - THEY JUST VIEW THE SITUATION AS SOMEONE ELSE WILL BE NEGATIVELY AFFECTED

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 01:01 PM
Chain, those estimated figures are already proven false. The costs will rise dramatically
and the cuts to medicare will be disastrous. Not to mention the effect on job loss and small business decline. Across the board, this bill is bad for every American, left or right.
Reform yes, socialistic medicine that is government controlled, NO!

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 01:03 PM
$*^! Obama,Pelosi,Holder,Emanuel,Van Jones,Wright & the rest of the scumbags.


And $*^! Bush too !

[Edited on 3/18/2010 by LUKE]

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 01:08 PM
quote:
Obama (and this may get me karmatized) as much as he professes to be about non-partisan politics and including everyone views any dissent as an attack.


"Non-partisan" doesn't mean "capitulate to the opposition's every whim."

quote:
Yes, the republicans stonewall, but it would be more difficult for them with a more reasonable compromise bill.


Which Boehner promised months ago and still hasn't produced.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 01:25 PM
quote:
quote:
Obama (and this may get me karmatized) as much as he professes to be about non-partisan politics and including everyone views any dissent as an attack.


"Non-partisan" doesn't mean "capitulate to the opposition's every whim."

quote:
Yes, the republicans stonewall, but it would be more difficult for them with a more reasonable compromise bill.


Which Boehner promised months ago and still hasn't produced.



Re: the first part, I don't think that Obama listens to anything he doesn't want to hear. Re: the second, the Republicans have been less than proactive; the more moderate democrats, however, have not exactly been embraced by Pelosi on a mission..

Healthcare reform needs to occur; what I see going on now is Partisan (as well as less than transparent politics) The true costs of this undertaking are severely underestimated. Everyone is being told that this is income saving and will not hurt them. That is just a fantasy. For the people who say Medicare for everyone - that would be great; but Medicare is severely subsidized now by the tax payers. The premiums for the Seniors don't cover a huge part of the costs. Re: Medicaid for everyone, the payments don't cover the physicians costs of treatments (there was an article on this topic this week in the NY Times - everyone in Flint Michigan is getting on Medicaid and no one accepts it) although the hospitals don't do as badly.

Nowhere in this bill is tort reform addressed. I would say 1/3 the expensive testing I order is to cover my ass. Until we as a society accepts some limitation of our "rights" to everything this is doomed to failure. I have to order 300 unnecessary MRI's to prevent missing one tumor. Else I'll end up in court with someone saying "why didn't you order that doc." Again, the public is being told that this won't affect them. They don't have a clue. The only way to save money is things like "No focal neurological defect with your headaches = no MRI = if something shows up later it is not the fault of the MD." We have too much technology (that is of great help) that we all feel entitled to have used on ourselves just to make sure. Medicare for all is too expensive; Medicaid is sham coverage. The private insurers have cherry-picked for decades so the sick fall into the government's lap.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 01:35 PM
Here's what I've been finding around here lately.....the bottom line has gone to the head of the list in health care. Hospitals are cutting staff to the point the nurses, etc. are understaffed and overworked which means a lot of things have the potential to fall to the wayside. The doctors are running in more patients in order to make enough money to cover their expenses....or live wildly beyond how doctors in years past are living....consequently, there isn't enough 'face time' with your doctor to really get to the root us the problems.

I, for one, am getting weary of being shuffled in and out the door like I'm on an assembly line. And I have insurance! Before I had covereage I thought it was just me....but it seems it's everywhere with everyone. We may have some of the best technology around but if you don't have access to someone who cares if you live or die, what good does it do?

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 02:09 PM
Good points Ann.It is getting worse by the day. Many senior Physicians and surgeons are quitting the industry if this bill passes. Where does that leave us?
If this bill passes, and adds 30 million+ to the roll-call of
people in line for healthcare, just think how much worse it will be. And who is paying for all this socialized care? You and me, and the rest of working America. Not to mention, cutting Medicare which I will hope to use as I get older.
We have the best system in the world, needs reform yes, but the very best in care, research, and the development of new equipment and drugs.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 02:11 PM
quote:
And who is paying for all this socialized care? You and me, and the rest of working America. Not to mention, cutting Medicare which I will hope to use as I get older.



Medicare isn't socialized medicine?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 02:16 PM
quote:
You forgot to mention that this bill, as projected by the Congressional Budget office, cuts the deficit by $138 billion over that ten year period and an additional $1.2 Trillion in the decade following. And there's that little thing about 32 million additional Americans being covered.

It also reduces Medicare expenditures by 1.4 percent annually while extending Medicare's solvency by at least nine years. Oh and a few restrictions on insurance companies. Like denying coverage for pre existing conditions, etc.....

Not a perfect bill by any means but it certainly addresses some problems which will only get worse if we allow the status quo for another 10 years.
While technically true, it's based on completely unrealistic economic assumptions provided by the language of the bill they are given to score. It assumes no increase in fees for doctors. It assumes Medicare cuts will be accepted without reaction. It double-counts some items. As emr points out so well, it assumes that covering more people currently uninsured will occur at the same cost as current coverage. That's unrealistic.

CBO's scores can be valuable, if based on reasonable assumptions. But in this case, its been garbage in, garbage out.

For a more accurate look at the economics, why not study a similar program already in place? Like in Massachusetts. There, costs have been rising well beyond original estimates (like virtually all entitlements do). MA residents pay some of the highest premiums in the country.

Proponents of the current bill usually don't spend much time hoisting MA as an example of success, even though much of the concepts are shared. No wonder.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 02:35 PM
quote:
Chain, those estimated figures are already proven false. The costs will rise dramatically
and the cuts to medicare will be disastrous. Not to mention the effect on job loss and small business decline. Across the board, this bill is bad for every American, left or right.
Reform yes, socialistic medicine that is government controlled, NO!



How have they been proven false as they were just released a few hours ago? And enough with the usual garbage of "socialized medicine" as that's not what this reform is.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 02:41 PM
quote:
quote:
Chain, those estimated figures are already proven false. The costs will rise dramatically
and the cuts to medicare will be disastrous. Not to mention the effect on job loss and small business decline. Across the board, this bill is bad for every American, left or right.
Reform yes, socialistic medicine that is government controlled, NO!



How have they been proven false as they were just released a few hours ago? And enough with the usual garbage of "socialized medicine" as that's not what this reform is.


Oh you mean some paid hack carnival barker on Fox News saying the CBO's projections are wrong doesn't do it for ya?

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 02:42 PM
quote:
You forgot to mention that this bill, as projected by the Congressional Budget office, cuts the deficit by $138 billion over that ten year period and an additional $1.2 Trillion in the decade following. And there's that little thing about 32 million additional Americans being covered.

It also reduces Medicare expenditures by 1.4 percent annually while extending Medicare's solvency by at least nine years. Oh and a few restrictions on insurance companies. Like denying coverage for pre existing conditions, etc.....

Not a perfect bill by any means but it certainly addresses some problems which will only get worse if we allow the status quo for another 10 years.

[Edited on 3/18/2010 by Chain]


I want your calculator. Or whoever's you got those numbers from. Did it come with the requisite tab of windowpane? If you buy that, and the majority of Congressmen truly believe that, we are seriously focked.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 03:17 PM
quote:
Here's what I've been finding around here lately.....the bottom line has gone to the head of the list in health care. Hospitals are cutting staff to the point the nurses, etc. are understaffed and overworked which means a lot of things have the potential to fall to the wayside. The doctors are running in more patients in order to make enough money to cover their expenses....or live wildly beyond how doctors in years past are living....consequently, there isn't enough 'face time' with your doctor to really get to the root us the problems.

I, for one, am getting weary of being shuffled in and out the door like I'm on an assembly line. And I have insurance! Before I had covereage I thought it was just me....but it seems it's everywhere with everyone. We may have some of the best technology around but if you don't have access to someone who cares if you live or die, what good does it do?


I think this is true for most all professions/businesses today. Money always was important; for the last 20 years or so of society it has been the only thing that matters. I know a lot of ethical docs and a lot of unethical docs. Those who are in primary care are getting crushed even before the plan. Further cuts will put many of them out of business. The pediatricians and the internists are not making "elite" incomes. The real heyday in medicine was actually for the old time docs you long for. The guys who are 60 and older made money that was worth a lot more in value than the guys running the treadmills today. They worked half as hard; people were half as sick; they made twice the money in inflation adjusted dollars (at least) I guarantee you Marcus Welby is running a hedge fund with all the $20's he stuck in his desk drawer

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 03:54 PM
Stop believeing obama and msnbc. the truth is something you would really like to have dont cha think? Then again, maybe not as you go around in your world of smoke and mirrors, lies and deception. This isnt about left or right, Rep or Dem..this issue will
devastate this country in ways you cant imagine.
This bill does litle to 'reform'.
Medicaid is viewed by some as 'socialized' medicine. To some degree, I agree. But working people have paid into this system for years and years. Now, obama tells us it's broken? bankrupt? This is the government control you want for our healthcare system?
Surely, you cant be that ignorant of the consequences.

[Edited on 3/18/2010 by skyponydogboy]

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 03:58 PM
All I keep hearing from the Republicans is that we have the best health care system in the world. It is only great to those who have access to it. They never offer anything new and the reforms they do want are just to keep their own insurance costs down, not to help others in need aquire health care insurance. All they want is to delay and keep things the way they are.

They care little for the little man, the service people who work their butts off to make everyone's lives more comfortable but can't afford to insure themselves and their families. The Republican answer is always, "work harder or find a different job that offers insurance". Problem is there will always be low paying service jobs that need to be done and those people working hard and performing those jobs deserve to get affordable health care insurance just like anyone else. But why would the Republican conservatives care, as long as they get theirs.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 04:00 PM
You do know that the federal government is already picking up the tab for illegals and other uninsured?

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 04:09 PM
quote:
You do know that the federal government is already picking up the tab for illegals and other uninsured?


They are, but the system is piecemeal. ER visits; scattered clinics with long waits; little access to quality care. There is rationing through lack of access.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be reform; I am saying that the cost projections are Fantasy Island. I also feel strongly that a unified immigration policy needs to be reached. We can't support our own citizens - we surely can't afford to insure the rest of the world. it is patently insane that someone can hop accross the border in their 9th month of pregnancy (this happens frequently) have their baby for free; potentially sue the unfortunate physician on call that night for the ER and then their child is a US citizen. That law making anyone born here a citizen made sense in the 1700's when we wanted to grow our population. It is insane at this point in time

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 04:15 PM
quote:
Stop believeing obama and msnbc.


I don't watch MSNBC.

quote:
the truth is something you would really like to have dont cha think?


And let me guess, you are the only one that knows the truth?

quote:
Then again, maybe not as you go around in your world of smoke and mirrors, lies and deception.


Ooooo. Scary.

quote:
This isnt about left or right, Rep or Dem..


Oh, yes it is. If the sides were flipped you'd be all for it.

quote:
this issue will
devastate this country in ways you cant imagine.
This bill does litle to 'reform'.



If you say so...

quote:
Medicaid is viewed by some as 'socialized' medicine. To some degree, I agree. But working people have paid into this system for years and years. Now, obama tells us it's broken? bankrupt? This is the government control you want for our healthcare system?
Surely, you cant be that ignorant of the consequences.



Medicare is nearly bankrupt. Fact. That was a fact long before Obama even declared his intention to run for President. It was heavily pushed over the edge by the Medicare Prescription Drug Act, which was passed by who? Signed into law by who?

You need to make up your mind. On one hand you say you want Medicare benefits. On the other hand you say that government can't run anything but you want it anyway. It's so convoluted.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 04:20 PM
Health Reform: What's In, What's Out and What's Changed

Politics Daily (March 17) -- Despite all the feverous negotiations going on in Washington, the basic elements of health care reform are largely settled.

President Barack Obama's proposal, released Feb. 22, largely keeps in intact much of the health reform framework passed by Senate Democrats in December, including a mandate requiring Americans to purchase health insurance, a process for the federal government to subsidize people who cannot afford coverage, and taxes and fees to raise revenue to pay for those subsidies.

Until Congress hashes out its legislative language, the president's proposal is the closest description of what is expected to be put to a vote.

What's in:

Insurance mandate: The bill would require every American to purchase health insurance, either through an employer or through new health insurance exchanges created by the bill.

In order to encourage businesses to provide insurance for their employees, companies with more than 50 employees will pay fines to the government if they do not.

Health care exchanges: The new health care exchanges will include for-profit and nonprofit insurance companies and will be run by states or multistate cooperatives. At least two plans will be run by the Office of Personnel Management, which now handles plans for federal employees. Individual customers can shop for insurance in the exchanges, in some cases across state lines.

Insurance rules: Insurance companies will be required to include a minimum level of coverage for all customers and will be prohibited from dropping or denying coverage based on a customer's medical history. Companies also cannot implement caps on lifetime coverage.

Federal subsidies: If a person or family cannot afford coverage, the federal government will subsidize the cost of coverage for families making up to $88,000 a year.

Medicaid: The bill will also expand Medicaid to include as many as 15 million more people living just above the poverty line.

Medicare: The measure also eliminates Medicare co-payments for preventive and screening services and phases out the so-called "doughnut hole" that leaves some prescription drugs uncovered, starting with an immediate $250 rebate in 2010.

Dependent care: Also starting immediately, parents will be able to keep dependent children on their health plans until they are 26 years of age, and insurance companies will have to cover children with pre-existing conditions.

What's likely to change:

"Cornhusker Kickback": To address the backlash over perceived backroom deals in the Senate version, President Obama said he would eliminate the "Cornhusker Kickback," the provision negotiated by Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., to require the federal government to pay for his state's portion of the costs for Medicaid expansion. Instead, the federal government will pay for 100 percent of the Medicaid increase for all states through 2018, and a declining share after that.

Taxes and credits: To pay for this expansion, the president has proposed that a 40 percent excise tax be added to expensive insurance policies for all policyholders, not just union members (as had been previously negotiated), until 2018.

Obama would also increase the Medicare payroll tax on earnings over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples, and impose a 2.9 percent tax on unearned income for higher-income taxpayers.

For small businesses, $40 billion in tax credits would help employers pay for insurance for their workers.

Rate regulations: This is a proposal to give the federal government authority over insurance rates. Right now, rates are regulated only at the state level, and in some states they are not regulated at all.

GOP contributions: A number of Republican ideas were incorporated into the health reform package during committee work, including new steps to combat fraud and abuse in the Medicare and Medicaid programs. On March 2, the president said he was open to four more proposals from GOP lawmakers. They are: Using undercover investigators to detect Medicare fraud, adding $50 million for medical malpractice demonstration programs, encouraging wider use of health savings accounts, and possibly increasing Medicaid reimbursement rates to doctors. For procedural reasons, it is not clear yet whether all four will be in the final package.

Abortion: Obama opted to keep the Senate's more liberal language on abortion funding in the bill. It would require at least one option on every heath care insurance exchange to provide coverage for elective abortion services and allow women who choose that coverage to pay for it, as long as they use their own money. Federal subsidies could not directly pay for abortion coverage.

Immigrants: At the same time, the president chose the more restrictive Senate language barring illegal immigrants from purchasing health insurance through the exchanges, even with their own money. The House would have allowed such access for undocumented workers.

What's gone:

Public option: The president decided against including a public option, or government-run insurance coverage, which the House passed in November.

A word about costs:

One hurdle has come from budget restrictions on the proposal. Because Democrats are using a procedure called "reconciliation" to pass the bill, congressional rules require that the legislation reduce the deficit over the next five years and be revenue neutral after that.

The arbiter for predicting the costs of new government programs is the Congressional Budget Office, and so each side has been eagerly awaiting the CBO "scoring" -- balancing the costs of a proposed measure against its revenues. On Thursday morning, House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer released a preview of CBO's cost estimate for Democrats' final health care reform proposal.

According to Hoyer, the CBO has estimated that despite a 10-year cost of some $940 billion over 10 years, the bill would actually cut the deficit by $130 billion in the first 10 years and more than $1 trillion in the next 10 years. It would do that by raising taxes on high-dollar insurance plans; expanding the Medicare payroll tax to unearned income for wealthy earners; imposing fees on medical supplies and pharmaceuticals, and collecting penalties from large business that do not insure their employees along with fees levied against individuals who can afford insurance but do not buy it.

 

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  posted on 3/18/2010 at 04:42 PM
MY COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS FOLLOWING EACH SECTIO

quote:
Health Reform: What's In, What's Out and What's Changed

Politics Daily (March 17) -- Despite all the feverous negotiations going on in Washington, the basic elements of health care reform are largely settled.

President Barack Obama's proposal, released Feb. 22, largely keeps in intact much of the health reform framework passed by Senate Democrats in December, including a mandate requiring Americans to purchase health insurance, a process for the federal government to subsidize people who cannot afford coverage, and taxes and fees to raise revenue to pay for those subsidies.

Until Congress hashes out its legislative language, the president's proposal is the closest description of what is expected to be put to a vote.

What's in:

Insurance mandate: The bill would require every American to purchase health insurance, either through an employer or through new health insurance exchanges created by the bill.

DEFINITELY NEEDED

In order to encourage businesses to provide insurance for their employees, companies with more than 50 employees will pay fines to the government if they do not.

WHAT LEVEL OF INSURANCE MUST THEY PROVIDE - WILL PROBABLY OPT FOR THE CHEAPEST

Health care exchanges: The new health care exchanges will include for-profit and nonprofit insurance companies and will be run by states or multistate cooperatives. At least two plans will be run by the Office of Personnel Management, which now handles plans for federal employees. Individual customers can shop for insurance in the exchanges, in some cases across state lines.

COMPETITION IS ALWAYS GOOD FOR PRICE

Insurance rules: Insurance companies will be required to include a minimum level of coverage for all customers and will be prohibited from dropping or denying coverage based on a customer's medical history. Companies also cannot implement caps on lifetime coverage.

GOOD IDEA - DROPPING CAPS WILL RAISE COSTS

Federal subsidies: If a person or family cannot afford coverage, the federal government will subsidize the cost of coverage for families making up to $88,000 a year.

HOW MUCH AND HOW TO DETERMINE THIS - WILL THIS BE ADJUSTED BY REGION? 88K IS WEALTHIER IN ALABAMA THAN NYC

Medicaid: The bill will also expand Medicaid to include as many as 15 million more people living just above the poverty line.

AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, THERE AREN'T ENOUGH MD'S IN MEDICAID TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE CURRENTLY INSURED. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ADDED TO EVEN THE WORK ROLLS WILL BE IN MEDICAID HMO'S. WHO WILL PROVIDE THEIR CARE?

Medicare: The measure also eliminates Medicare co-payments for preventive and screening services and phases out the so-called "doughnut hole" that leaves some prescription drugs uncovered, starting with an immediate $250 rebate in 2010.

WILL COST A FORTUNE. EVEN WITH THE DOUGHNUT HOLE MEDICARE PART D IS KILLING THE VIABILITY OF THE PROGRAM

Dependent care: Also starting immediately, parents will be able to keep dependent children on their health plans until they are 26 years of age, and insurance companies will have to cover children with pre-existing conditions.

VERY NECESSARY; THE PARENTS WILL HAVE TO PAY HIGHER FEES ABOVE THE FAMILY PLAN. BUT, SO MANY 20'S DON'T HAVE INSURANCE NOW. VERY IMPORTANT

What's likely to change:

"Cornhusker Kickback": To address the backlash over perceived backroom deals in the Senate version, President Obama said he would eliminate the "Cornhusker Kickback," the provision negotiated by Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., to require the federal government to pay for his state's portion of the costs for Medicaid expansion. Instead, the federal government will pay for 100 percent of the Medicaid increase for all states through 2018, and a declining share after that.

NEEDED TO GET RID OF THE KICKBACK; NOW A KICKBACK FOR ALL. COST A LOT OF MONEY

Taxes and credits: To pay for this expansion, the president has proposed that a 40 percent excise tax be added to expensive insurance policies for all policyholders, not just union members (as had been previously negotiated), until 2018.

WILL PUSH MORE PEOPLE INTO **** TY INSURANCE PLANS. WHY NOT TAX BETTER CAR INSURANCE TO PAY FOR HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENTS? THIS IS NUTS!!!

Obama would also increase the Medicare payroll tax on earnings over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples, and impose a 2.9 percent tax on unearned income for higher-income taxpayers.

IF TAXES ARE TO BE RAISED, DON'T PUNISH WOMEN FOR WORKING. SPLIT B/W SINGLE AND FAMILY EARNINGS IS TOO SMALL

For small businesses, $40 billion in tax credits would help employers pay for insurance for their workers.

WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM? AND WILL THEY THEN BE TAXED IF ITS GOOD INSURANCE ON THE BACK END?

Rate regulations: This is a proposal to give the federal government authority over insurance rates. Right now, rates are regulated only at the state level, and in some states they are not regulated at all.

EITHER IT IS VIABLE ECONOMICALLY OR NOT. MEDICARE/MEDICAID RATES ARE BELOW MARKET VALUE

GOP contributions: A number of Republican ideas were incorporated into the health reform package during committee work, including new steps to combat fraud and abuse in the Medicare and Medicaid programs. On March 2, the president said he was open to four more proposals from GOP lawmakers. They are: Using undercover investigators to detect Medicare fraud, adding $50 million for medical malpractice demonstration programs, encouraging wider use of health savings accounts, and possibly increasing Medicaid reimbursement rates to doctors. For procedural reasons, it is not clear yet whether all four will be in the final package.

135 BILLION FOR POLICY; 50 MILLION TO START TORT REFORM? THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA

Abortion: Obama opted to keep the Senate's more liberal language on abortion funding in the bill. It would require at least one option on every heath care insurance exchange to provide coverage for elective abortion services and allow women who choose that coverage to pay for it, as long as they use their own money. Federal subsidies could not directly pay for abortion coverage.

IDIOTIC. BUT WITHOUT THIS MIDDLE AMERICA SAYS NO

Immigrants: At the same time, the president chose the more restrictive Senate language barring illegal immigrants from purchasing health insurance through the exchanges, even with their own money. The House would have allowed such access for undocumented workers.

THEY WILL STILL GET COVERED - NO ONE CAN DENY ACCESS IN AN EMERGENCY. NO IMMIGRATION REFORM TIED IN

What's gone:

Public option: The president decided against including a public option, or government-run insurance coverage, which the House passed in November.

A word about costs:

One hurdle has come from budget restrictions on the proposal. Because Democrats are using a procedure called "reconciliation" to pass the bill, congressional rules require that the legislation reduce the deficit over the next five years and be revenue neutral after that.

The arbiter for predicting the costs of new government programs is the Congressional Budget Office, and so each side has been eagerly awaiting the CBO "scoring" -- balancing the costs of a proposed measure against its revenues. On Thursday morning, House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer released a preview of CBO's cost estimate for Democrats' final health care reform proposal.

According to Hoyer, the CBO has estimated that despite a 10-year cost of some $940 billion over 10 years, the bill would actually cut the deficit by $130 billion in the first 10 years and more than $1 trillion in the next 10 years. It would do that by raising taxes on high-dollar insurance plans; expanding the Medicare payroll tax to unearned income for wealthy earners; imposing fees on medical supplies and pharmaceuticals, and collecting penalties from large business that do not insure their employees along with fees levied against individuals who can afford insurance but do not buy it.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 27533
(27822 all sites)
Registered: 2/18/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 3/18/2010 at 05:36 PM
quote:
quote:
You do know that the federal government is already picking up the tab for illegals and other uninsured?


They are, but the system is piecemeal. ER visits; scattered clinics with long waits; little access to quality care. There is rationing through lack of access.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be reform; I am saying that the cost projections are Fantasy Island. I also feel strongly that a unified immigration policy needs to be reached. We can't support our own citizens - we surely can't afford to insure the rest of the world. it is patently insane that someone can hop accross the border in their 9th month of pregnancy (this happens frequently) have their baby for free; potentially sue the unfortunate physician on call that night for the ER and then their child is a US citizen. That law making anyone born here a citizen made sense in the 1700's when we wanted to grow our population. It is insane at this point in time


Okay...the problem has been identified. What is your solution?

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5570
(5577 all sites)
Registered: 2/2/2008
Status: Offline

  posted on 3/18/2010 at 06:57 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
You do know that the federal government is already picking up the tab for illegals and other uninsured?


They are, but the system is piecemeal. ER visits; scattered clinics with long waits; little access to quality care. There is rationing through lack of access.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be reform; I am saying that the cost projections are Fantasy Island. I also feel strongly that a unified immigration policy needs to be reached. We can't support our own citizens - we surely can't afford to insure the rest of the world. it is patently insane that someone can hop accross the border in their 9th month of pregnancy (this happens frequently) have their baby for free; potentially sue the unfortunate physician on call that night for the ER and then their child is a US citizen. That law making anyone born here a citizen made sense in the 1700's when we wanted to grow our population. It is insane at this point in time


Okay...the problem has been identified. What is your solution?


1 - Immigration reform. I take care of a lot of illegals; they are hardworking nice people. They don't belong on the government dole. Children born in the country should not be citizens. We can't afford to keep our citizens healthy; we surely can't affort this charity.

2 - Tort reform. If the governemnt is calling for greater control of health care costs the physicians can't still be responsible for every decision they make (which is in reality frequently made by the insurance companies) It's not fair.

2B - Everyone got nuts with the "death panels" but something like 50% of our health care costs are spent in our final illness. There has to be a way for medical providers to say no and be protected (granted currently some say yes for their pocketbooks) I

3 - If we are starting to socialize medicine the government should re-imburse educational expenses for medical school education. In turn get some payback as salaried public service physicians. With the type of cuts projected people with $200,000 - $300,000 debt loads will never be able to pay that back and have a reasonably good (not priate jet/100K cars good) lifestyle. Too much money and too much time invested.

4 - It is obvious that taxes are too low to support the entitlements society expects. But, let the government, legal, business aspects of our society have the same level of scrutiny. Hungry people aren;t fed for free in the same manner that they will (supposedly) be cared for medically. Legal aid does not provide "the best" lawyers. No bank gives a toaster to homeless people. Problem with taxing "the rich" is everyone thinks those who make 10 bucks more than them are rich. I think most people would have a hard time arguing that over 750,000 or 1,000,000 per year is really rich. In NY 200-250K does not afford lifestyles of the rich and famous.

5 - I actually favor a partly public system. Whatever minimum amount is deemed necessary to provide basic care should be allocated. If you are poor it is in a medicaid system. Other people would get a credit towards their private plan. Surcharging better insurance will just send us into a spiral where we all end up with bad insurance

6 - Everyone should be required to have insurance

7 - To get the system started pre-existing illnesses have to be one time forgiven

8 - Insurance should not be employment tied. Big corps pay 1/2 price of small ones. Small businesses can't afford to pay. And, when you get sick you tend not to be able to work. Insurance pools should be created, but for individuals not businesses. For competition. Imagine if you couldn't insure your car if you lost your job?

9 - I don't know the dollar costs, but this is the framework I'd work from

 
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