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Author: Subject: Conservatism is better than liberalism, IMHO

Peach Head





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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 12:59 PM
Here's what most Conservatives think, in no particular order. It seems that most liberals believe the opposite so I won't make a separate list.

1. We Conservatives think the Constitution means what it says, in plain English. It isn't a "living, breathing document" any more than any other binding agreement, like your lease or mortgage.

2. The chief function of government is the protection of the citizens. Non-citizens don't have the rights that citizens do.

3. America is a unique society better than any other. We bow to no rulers.

4. America needs a strong national defense via the military, and via well defended national borders.

5. Profiling to maintain national security is appropriate. Check the likely culprits, not grannies.

6. Minimize the federal government as much as possible. Transfer power to the states as much as possible.

7. Judges interpret laws, they don't make them. Think of an umpire. He doesn't decide whether a rule is right or wrong. All he decides is whether the player broke it or not.

8. End the federal income tax and replace it either with a national sales tax. Keep it as low as possible

9. The government must immediately stop printing fiat money ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money ).

10. The federal government must limit its activities to the ones outlined in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, as well as the Tenth Amendment.

11. Life begins at conception, therefore abortion is murder. See http://www.prolifephysicians.org/lifebegins.htm , http://www.prolife.com/life_begins.html , http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_human_rights/Scientists_Attest_T o_Life_Beginning_At_Conception.shtml , and others.

12. There is no right to abortion. This came from a convoluted misapplication of the right to privacy in a misguided Supreme Court decision. It's still a state-level decision to allow medical murder. But it shouln't be legal at all.

13. We think our way to a conclusion. We don't rely on our feelings.

14. Adults (13+ or so) are accountable for their decisions and actions. Don't enable bad behavior by making excuses for those who can be expected to know the difference between right and wrong, smart and foolish, and so on.

15. Right and wrong are absolutes that rely on a supernatural source, the God of the Bible. Relativism refutes itself, always.

16. Let us make our own decisions about issues like medical care.

17. Marriage = one man + one woman. No exceptions.

18. The Constitution defines individual rights, not group rights.

19. Income redistribution, socialism, and anything related to these is completely un-American and must be blocked.

20. No government, state or local, has any business telling anyone whether or not to smoke, eat saturated fats, wear a seat belt, or in any other way take care of myself. That's an individual decision. This applies to recreational drugs as well.

P.T.

 
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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:19 PM
While I agree with many points, I wince at some that violate true concepts of liberty.

#11 is, I believe, not founded in current law. Until conception is deemed as the point where human life begins by our laws, then rights of personal liberty go to the mother. In other words; the individual has rights to their own body that no govt should violate. Trying to restrict the choice of the mother violates that concept of personal liberty until conception is legally defined as the point where life begins.

#17 is just plain ridiculous, even though it appears to the preferred definition. Other than stopping perverse intra-family marriages, govt should have no role in the process of the individual choosing their marriage partner. How does it harm anyone else if gays decide to marry? If you agree with #20 - that govt has no right to restrict personal behavior that harms no one outside of the individual - then you have to oppose #17.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:23 PM
Oh yeah, I agree with Marc. #15 has to go. I'll trust our laws far more than anyone's interpretation of biblical verse or God's intention.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:27 PM
quote:
God help us all if most conservatives believe


God help us all if we have to define our beliefs according to some list of someone else's.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:29 PM
WBD has PM.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:33 PM
There is no such thing as a Conservative manifesto but if there were this would most assuredly not be it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:36 PM
quote:
Here's what most Conservatives think, in no particular order. It seems that most liberals believe the opposite so I won't make a separate list.
I doubt that many 'conservatives' or most 'liberals' want you to be their belief system spokesperson. In fact I would bet many would cringe at some of the 'conservative beliefs' that you've outlined here. (Just like a few of these 'beliefs' you've defined as strictly conservative in nature are probably shared by a good number of people regardless of their political persuasion)

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:43 PM
3. America is a unique society better than any other.


Have you lived as a citizen in any other country ?
Now I can dig me some I'm proud to be an American but its a big world and alot of other folks love the countries that they live in.
How can you actually claim it to be the best, when you have a list of items you would like to be law or whatever ?
Seems like America isn't so great by your standards in which America does not adhear to.
Love it or leave it !

 

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If we practice and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, soon the whole world will be blind and toothless. -Mahatma Gandhi.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:45 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
God help us all if most conservatives believe


God help us all if we have to define our beliefs according to some list of someone else's.


Point taken.


Wasn't directed at you, really.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:49 PM
quote:
American arrogance fuels terrorism.


That's almost as much of a hoot as some of the list above.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 01:53 PM
Just wondering why anyone would respond by a post by someone named Professional_Troller.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:14 PM
quote:
Please elaborate.

EDIT: Or logoff...


Should I elaborate or log off? I will do whatever you say.

[Edited on 1/27/2010 by jim]

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:20 PM
quote:
Just wondering why anyone would respond by a post by someone named Professional_Troller.


Exactly what I was thinking. DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:29 PM
quote:
Just wondering why anyone would respond by a post by someone named Professional_Troller.
Yeah - me too. And I was a respondent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU&feature=related

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:38 PM
http://forums.printfection.com/showthread.php?p=25048

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:42 PM


 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:44 PM
I will elaborate instead. Many ask, why do the people who perpetrated 9/11 and other such acts hate us…must be American arrogance. Why they really hate is what they see here in America, which is a democratically elected government (well the closest thing to one at least). Their leaders are self appointed. They hate our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote, our freedom to assemble and our freedom do exactly what we are doing here, disagreeing. Insane hatred drive these people. Even if American (arrogance) ceased to exist, they would still seek to impose an extremist religious agenda on the rest of the world.

There is also the psychology of a person that might go into a crowded market place and blow the living crap out of everyone including him/herself. There is certainly more to it than, “man, those Americans are arrogant.”

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 02:55 PM
quote:
quote:
3. America is a unique society better than any other.


Have you lived as a citizen in any other country ?
Now I can dig me some I'm proud to be an American but its a big world and alot of other folks love the countries that they live in.
How can you actually claim it to be the best, when you have a list of items you would like to be law or whatever ?
Seems like America isn't so great by your standards in which America does not adhear to.
Love it or leave it !

American arrogance fuels terrorism.


Nothing but self-flaggelation blaming ourselves for everything else that is wrong in the world.

A really, really assinine assertion there. But taken straight from the Obozo/Michael Moore/etc. repertoire.

I suppose American arrogance fuels the conflict between the moderates and radicals in Pakistan. Or the conflict in Northern Ireland, the Hutus and Tsutsi.

Bullshit.

[Edited on 1/27/2010 by alanwoods]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 03:12 PM
Arrogance would be sending a minuteman right up Mullah Omar's nasty goat-humping ass.

I'm all for that.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 03:59 PM
quote:
Relax you two, you'll live longer.


I will just do as you say and log off. As a reminder, this is the whipping post, you might get differing opinions from some folks....doesn't mean everyone is not "relaxed". Amazing how the open progressive mind can be closed so often...for repairs I assume. Just kidding, don't get crazy.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 04:10 PM
Not so sure I buy into # 3 at all. Any society who supports Corporate profits over health care for it's poorest citizens can't be all that great.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 04:27 PM
quote:
Struck a nerve I guess, angry conservative is angry!

I did not say that arrogance is the only reason people hate America, nor did I qualify how much of a factor arrogance plays in terrorism, nor does Northern Ireland have anything to do with what I said (WTF?). It's a contributing factor, that's it. Irrefutable.

Relax you two, you'll live longer.



"Terrorism" is a pretty broad term and you are still delusional.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 04:29 PM
quote:
Not so sure I buy into # 3 at all. Any society who supports Corporate profits over health care for it's poorest citizens can't be all that great.


Another really assinine statement. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Move, then. Go find Utopia. I'm quite happy here micelf, no matter who is in charge.

Edit: Let me add: Extremely naive statement.

[Edited on 1/27/2010 by alanwoods]

 

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Peach Head



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 05:01 PM
quote:
God help us all if most conservatives believe that abortion unequivocally equals murder, that basic rights and civil liberties are to be restricted by race and sexual orientation, and that the Christian God does not play a large enough role in our government. And really, it is amazing to me how fundamentally at odds many of these suggestions are with the founding documents and laws of our land.
quote:
Equal protection under the law...
See item 18.
quote:
Separation of church and state...
From a private letter Jefferson wrote. He wanted no government influence over religion. The Constitution itself doesn't address this. The First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a state religion, such as the Church of England.
quote:
All that good stuff. Not to mention the inherent contradictions within your argument, such as the one that states that ours is the best society on the planet, despite all the other ones that limit the benefits of that society to select genders, ethnicities and religions of your choosing.
Unclear. Clarify, please
quote:
Plus the one that claims that a woman's right to make her own medical decisions is murder.
If you don't like it, get out the vote.
quote:
despite the one that demands that citizens be able to make their own decisions about health care.
Saving a life overrides any other consideration. If you don't like that, then vote for candidates who support your position.

P.T.
P.T.

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 1/27/2010 at 05:11 PM
quote:
While I agree with many points, I wince at some that violate true concepts of liberty.

#11 is, I believe, not founded in current law. Until conception is deemed as the point where human life begins by our laws, then rights of personal liberty go to the mother. In other words; the individual has rights to their own body that no govt should violate. Trying to restrict the choice of the mother violates that concept of personal liberty until conception is legally defined as the point where life begins.
Legal doesn't necessarily mean morally right. Slavery is legal in many Islamic countries. Is it morally right? Female genital mutilation is legal in many countries (not sure which). Is it morally right? Hitler (everyone's favorite worst case example) made it not just legal but mandatory to turn in Jews for execution. Was that morally right? All these examples reflect the laws of their societies.
quote:
#17 is just plain ridiculous, even though it appears to the preferred definition. Other than stopping perverse intra-family marriages, govt should have no role in the process of the individual choosing their marriage partner.
You define them as perverse. What objective standard do you use? If you haven't one, but only your perspective that it's perverse, you're getting into relativism. Pharaohs married their sisters. Was that wrong? It was the law of the land.
quote:
How does it harm anyone else if gays decide to marry?
It sets a bad precedent for further erosion of marriage, the foundational social unit of society.
quote:
If you agree with #20 - that govt has no right to restrict personal behavior that harms no one outside of the individual - then you have to oppose #17.
I was talking specifically about health-related issues, not behaviors that corrode a foundational institution.

P.T.

 
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