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Sublime Peach





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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 05:56 AM


[Edited on 1/6/2012 by jerryphilbob]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 09:26 AM
quote:
Obama more polarizing than Bush

Is not.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 09:36 AM
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 09:58 AM
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 10:01 AM
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 10:18 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 12:32 PM
You nailed it there. My thoughts are the division is that republicans are sore losers and don't mind pitching a fit when they don't win.

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 12:51 PM
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


That is simply not the case. From the day he took office Democrats claimed Bush "stole" the election and attacked him.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 12:52 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 01:05 PM
quote:


That is simply not the case. From the day he took office Democrats claimed Bush "stole" the election and attacked him.


He did.

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

True Peach



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Posts: 11675
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 01:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.

They keep sales records by political party?

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 01:23 PM
quote:
Mind you, their attacks are purely a political calculation - opposition to Obama is not based around objections to his policy


Sorry, but it's about his policies.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 01:29 PM
I thought Obama didn't have any policies. From all I've been reading and hearing he's not getting anything done other than finishing up what Bush started. What's the problem?

 

____________________
Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

True Peach



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Posts: 11675
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 01:35 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.

They keep sales records by political party?

Do they need to, or can we use some common sense here?

What seems like common sense to you may seem like a bias to me.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 15998
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Registered: 10/13/2007
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 01:58 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Mind you, their attacks are purely a political calculation - opposition to Obama is not based around objections to his policy


Sorry, but it's about his policies.


No it's not. If it were, there would be one single GOP member who would support one single initiative of the Obama administration. The GOP has enforced the strictest possible party discipline out of necessity, not out of any desire to serve the public.


Sure, and it would most likely be the one of the last things they ever support before they got sent home. They are listening to the public, most particularly to the voters that put them there.

Obama's flagging support stems from everything except policy? That's kind of a dangerous gamble, but please feel free to continue.

 

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Zen Peach



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Posts: 46252
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:06 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Mind you, their attacks are purely a political calculation - opposition to Obama is not based around objections to his policy


Sorry, but it's about his policies.


No it's not. If it were, there would be one single GOP member who would support one single initiative of the Obama administration. The GOP has enforced the strictest possible party discipline out of necessity, not out of any desire to serve the public.


Sure, and it would most likely be the one of the last things they ever support before they got sent home. They are listening to the public, most particularly to the voters that put them there.

Obama's flagging support stems from everything except policy? That's kind of a dangerous gamble, but please feel free to continue.


I find this interesting. You make fun of people routinely for suggesting that it is for something other than policy. As if you just know there's absolutely no other reason at all that people have issue with him other than just policy.

Aren't you guilty of having the same tunnel vision of those you mock?

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



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Posts: 20943
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Status: Offline

  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:07 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.


Really now. I didn't realize they listed sales figures by Republicans but ok I'll take your word for it. That certainly proves it.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
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Registered: 6/15/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


That is simply not the case. From the day he took office Democrats claimed Bush "stole" the election and attacked him.


I agree that Bush was not given any grace period by Democratic citizens. He certainly was given about a 3 year grace period by Congressional Democrats, though, which is all that really matters. Obama was deeply, viscerally feared by conservatives during the election cycle, and that fear led to some of the most bitter, unhinged attacks on a candidate in recent memory. Now they've succeeded in focusing their attacks on grounds that more closely resemble actual issues, rather than manufactured issues with his place of birth, or his use of a teleprompter. Mind you, their attacks are purely a political calculation - opposition to Obama is not based around objections to his policy, but rather a desire to capitalize on some of that populist fever that has wracked the minds of many citizens in hopes of winning elections and installing their failed regime as the majority once more. So while Bush took a beating for being named President because the Conservative Supreme Court decided that properly-cast ballots need not be counted, that contentious environment from the opposition didn't arise until at least year 3 of his Presidency, at which point Democrats began to stop kowtowing to Bush and started to call attention to the fact that the Bush administration was doing permanent damage to our nation. The amazing thing is how effective the GOP has been in convincing the masses that the Democrats bear the blame for those 8 years of catastrophic leadership. Truly baffling.

[Edited on 1/26/2010 by mglowenstein]


I just can't agree with this. The only grace period he got was immediately after 9/11 and as soon as it became seen as reasonably popular to do so he was slammed on this as well. It is not the job of the opposition to give the president a "grace period" I'm not saying I agree with them but Republicans who oppose Obama's agenda of course rallied their forces such as they were to block it. That's our system. It often has to operate by some degree of consensus. Obama made no attempt to solicit the advice of the loyal opposition. I'm not saying Bush was huge on it either but there were some bi-partisan bills he signed early on. It seems to me that when you like the President's agenda you (collective you not you personally) get angry when the opposition acts to block it and vice versa.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
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Registered: 7/8/2004
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:12 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.


Really now. I didn't realize they listed sales figures by Republicans but ok I'll take your word for it. That certainly proves it.


You'll stereotype the left in a heartbeat, but you predictably bristle at any negative notion whatsoever about the other side.

I really wish you'd admit your biases.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
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Registered: 6/15/2005
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:12 PM
quote:
quote:
Mind you, their attacks are purely a political calculation - opposition to Obama is not based around objections to his policy


Sorry, but it's about his policies.


I agree it is about his policies with the exception of a small minority of crazies. Of course some say his policies are communist. This is wrong and crazy but it's still about his policies.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:13 PM
quote:
Obama made no attempt to solicit the advice of the loyal opposition.


Lie.

Just how dead is single payer?

Olympia Snowe?

Lie.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
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Registered: 6/15/2005
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  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:13 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.

They keep sales records by political party?

Do they need to, or can we use some common sense here?

What seems like common sense to you may seem like a bias to me.


Now THAT seems like common sense.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:14 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.

They keep sales records by political party?

Do they need to, or can we use some common sense here?

What seems like common sense to you may seem like a bias to me.


Now THAT seems like common sense.


Yeah, you're above biases alright.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
(20942 all sites)
Registered: 6/15/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:14 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.


Really now. I didn't realize they listed sales figures by Republicans but ok I'll take your word for it. That certainly proves it.


You'll stereotype the left in a heartbeat, but you predictably bristle at any negative notion whatsoever about the other side.

I really wish you'd admit your biases.


I do NOT stereotype the left. And I am not bristling. More laughing at the idea that this is evidence that Republicans are buying guns because they fear Obama.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 46252
(46253 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/26/2010 at 02:16 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Right vs. Left is firmly entrenched regardless of who the President is.


Democrats adopted a wait and see approach with Bush and gave him the benefit of doubt on a lot of policies. Republicans and conservatives have been on the attack since Obama was elected. So despite the obvious entrenchment the behavior of conservatives and democrats is very different and this has had an impact on whether any initiatives will be able to get off the ground. Itís a little difficult putting up a tent if one is constantly dodging bullets and this has been Obamaís lot over the last year. Itís also forced him to look for compromises that led him down not very intelligent or productive paths.


I agree with you, but a lot of people won't as they see the two parties as exactly the same.


I don't recall democrats stocking up on guns and ammo when Bush was elected. That really is a fundamental difference in behavior and attitude.


Do you really think a signficant number of Republicans are "stocking up on guns and ammo?"

"Hoarding" would be a better term, and yes. Sales figures for 2009 support such a notion.


Really now. I didn't realize they listed sales figures by Republicans but ok I'll take your word for it. That certainly proves it.


You'll stereotype the left in a heartbeat, but you predictably bristle at any negative notion whatsoever about the other side.

I really wish you'd admit your biases.


I do NOT stereotype the left. And I am not bristling. More laughing at the idea that this is evidence that Republicans are buying guns because they fear Obama.


Gun sales are up.

Ammo too.

You've usually got your finger on the pulse of the zeitgeist, so...

...how many of those people do you think voted for Obama?

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 
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