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Sublime Peach





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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 02:44 PM


[Edited on 1/6/2012 by jerryphilbob]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 08:30 PM
JPB did you write that post? If not you should link or give credit to the original author.

Living in the part of the country I live in it is very easy to see the devastation to middle class families over the last few decades. Their jobs have been lost, or if not lost, drastically reduced and not just by technology or productivity gains. That is the cost of free trade and this global economy. We give jobs to China, Mexico, Central America, etc at the cost of losing jobs here. It sucks, but tell me who is going to right this wrong?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 09:40 PM
25 years ago my dad (on the garment industry) told me we'd all be better off with 3 pairs of shoes made in Mass. than 10 made by a bunch of 12 year olds in Guatemala. Yes, big business has raped the country, but it was our collective greediness that helped them do it. Vacations, wide screen TV's were deemed "rights" rather than earned luxuries. We wanted to believe that this image was real. When I went to college it cost $240 to fly to and from NC. I almost never went home for holidays. Now, every parent I know would never "deny" their kids. And, by the way the fare is the same. Any wonder being a pilot isn;t as good a job anymore?

Wall street did it to us, but we were like the characters in the Wizard of Oz

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 09:45 PM
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 09:51 PM
quote:
25 years ago my dad (on the garment industry) told me we'd all be better off with 3 pairs of shoes made in Mass. than 10 made by a bunch of 12 year olds in Guatemala. Yes, big business has raped the country, but it was our collective greediness that helped them do it. Vacations, wide screen TV's were deemed "rights" rather than earned luxuries. We wanted to believe that this image was real. When I went to college it cost $240 to fly to and from NC. I almost never went home for holidays. Now, every parent I know would never "deny" their kids. And, by the way the fare is the same. Any wonder being a pilot isn;t as good a job anymore?

Wall street did it to us, but we were like the characters in the Wizard of Oz

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"


Or was it an abandonment of our more protectionist policies of the early 20th century? Was it post WWII trade that changed nothing overnight, but changed everything decades later?

I never seem to blame corporations or Wall St as much as everyone else does. I guess I just accept them for what they are. For me it gets back to the rules that Washington sets for them to play by and how they let foreign companies penetrate our market forever changing the game.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 09:54 PM
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


And the steel industry died under Carter.

This is hardly a Republican or Democrat issue. Did you see who Obama nominated for commerce, or the global, free trade advocates he surrounds himself? Or his displeasure with the Buy American provision of the Recovery and Reinvestment Act?

Democrats might talk a better game, but they often don't act any different than those evil Republicans. NAFTA might have been drafted under Bush I administration, but it was a Democrat administration that signed it into law.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/13/2009 at 10:37 PM
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


I don't see this as trashing Reagan but rather a statement of fact....whether it was Reagan or his aides, the firing of the air traffic control workers was detrimental to the work force in general just as the deregulation of the airlines set up a whole world of woes.

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 08:15 AM
This article was written by Elizabeth Warren and appeared at the Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-warren/america-without-a-middle_b_3 77829.html

JPB is getting more and more liberal, it appears. Good for him. As we watch capitalism eat itself, the middle class disappear, and the owners of the country prosper, the very real suffering that millions are experiencing continues and will continue until someone enacts legislation helping the middle class (tax the ever loving shiat out of the owners). Not too hard to reverse, just change the philosophy.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 08:21 AM
quote:
just change the philosophy.



We are talking about the government. That will never happen!

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 09:20 AM
quote:
Wall street did it to us
You had me until this. Wall Street made you (not YOU, emr) buy a flat screen? Wall Street made you go to Cabo on your Visa Card? Wall Street made millions of people sign mortgages they knew they couldn't afford?

I think not.

[Edited on 12/14/2009 by Brendan]

 

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This one goes to eleven...

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 10:10 AM
quote:
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


I don't see this as trashing Reagan but rather a statement of fact....whether it was Reagan or his aides, the firing of the air traffic control workers was detrimental to the work force in general just as the deregulation of the airlines set up a whole world of woes.


That's exactly right, bigann. Anyone who doesn't know this wasn't around back then. Wages rose steadily until Reagan did what he did, and they have hardly gone up at all since then. This isn't a philosophical argument. the facts are all right there for anyone to see.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 11:39 AM
quote:
quote:
Wall street did it to us
You had me until this. Wall Street made you (not YOU, emr) buy a flat screen? Wall Street made you go to Cabo on your Visa Card? Wall Street made millions of people sign mortgages they knew they couldn't afford?

I think not.

[Edited on 12/14/2009 by Brendan]


Most people want to hear what they want to hear. My two older kids are in college.When they opened up checking accts they each (one with no employment history, one who has earned 2K in her life) given pre-approved credit cards. I told them to take them (or they would use mine) to establish a credit history.My son who has never earned a dime in his life now has a 15K limit. Yeas, no one can put you into debt, but this is corporate irresponsibility of the highest level. The hosuing/mortgage crisis was fueled by bankers giving loans to people who couldn't afford them. If you're diabetic no one can stop you from eating ice cream. if your doctor, however, told you it was OK to do so that would be professional misconduct. The banks should be held to the same standards

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 08:26 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


I don't see this as trashing Reagan but rather a statement of fact....whether it was Reagan or his aides, the firing of the air traffic control workers was detrimental to the work force in general just as the deregulation of the airlines set up a whole world of woes.


That's exactly right, bigann. Anyone who doesn't know this wasn't around back then. Wages rose steadily until Reagan did what he did, and they have hardly gone up at all since then. This isn't a philosophical argument. the facts are all right there for anyone to see.


Even if that was true, how about blaming the controllers instead of Reagan then. Despite being warned against doing so numerous times, the knuckleheads went ahead with an illegal strike and got canned for it. I hate to see anybody lose their job, but how stupid can you get?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 08:34 PM
quote:
quote:
Wall street did it to us
You had me until this. Wall Street made you (not YOU, emr) buy a flat screen? Wall Street made you go to Cabo on your Visa Card? Wall Street made millions of people sign mortgages they knew they couldn't afford?

I think not.

[Edited on 12/14/2009 by Brendan]


 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 08:41 PM
quote:
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


And the steel industry died under Carter.

This is hardly a Republican or Democrat issue. Did you see who Obama nominated for commerce, or the global, free trade advocates he surrounds himself? Or his displeasure with the Buy American provision of the Recovery and Reinvestment Act?

Democrats might talk a better game, but they often don't act any different than those evil Republicans. NAFTA might have been drafted under Bush I administration, but it was a Democrat administration that signed it into law.
and a republican congress

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 08:59 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


I don't see this as trashing Reagan but rather a statement of fact....whether it was Reagan or his aides, the firing of the air traffic control workers was detrimental to the work force in general just as the deregulation of the airlines set up a whole world of woes.


That's exactly right, bigann. Anyone who doesn't know this wasn't around back then. Wages rose steadily until Reagan did what he did, and they have hardly gone up at all since then. This isn't a philosophical argument. the facts are all right there for anyone to see.


Even if that was true, how about blaming the controllers instead of Reagan then. Despite being warned against doing so numerous times, the knuckleheads went ahead with an illegal strike and got canned for it. I hate to see anybody lose their job, but how stupid can you get?


In the glory years of this nation "illegal" strikers became folk heros. There were no "legal" strikes when the unions gained strength

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 09:29 PM
A strong middle class is what made this country GREAT. republicans and people like joe lieberman, would like to destroy the middle class, and just have wealthy/poor. just like a third world country, and a pre- new deal , "robber baron" america.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 09:52 PM
I am Spartacus.....anyone else?

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 10:24 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Working class wages stopped rising when Reagan fired the air traffic control workers.


I don't see this as trashing Reagan but rather a statement of fact....whether it was Reagan or his aides, the firing of the air traffic control workers was detrimental to the work force in general just as the deregulation of the airlines set up a whole world of woes.


That's exactly right, bigann. Anyone who doesn't know this wasn't around back then. Wages rose steadily until Reagan did what he did, and they have hardly gone up at all since then. This isn't a philosophical argument. the facts are all right there for anyone to see.


Even if that was true, how about blaming the controllers instead of Reagan then. Despite being warned against doing so numerous times, the knuckleheads went ahead with an illegal strike and got canned for it. I hate to see anybody lose their job, but how stupid can you get?


In the glory years of this nation "illegal" strikers became folk heros. There were no "legal" strikes when the unions gained strength


Public Employee Unions are not allowed to strike. You can't strike against the public interest. It's always been this way. It always will. They were warned. They struck. They were fired and replaced.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 10:26 PM
quote:
A strong middle class is what made this country GREAT.


I'm going to throw in cheap labour during the industrial revolution as well as a huge percentage of the worlds manufacturing market for decades. Much like China today.

Buy North American or Die

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/14/2009 at 11:21 PM

Public Employee Unions are not allowed to strike. You can't strike against the public interest. It's always been this way. It always will. They were warned. They struck. They were fired and replaced.


Since when were the air controllers public employees? As far as striking against the public interest, is that anything like eminent domain where the government...local or otherwise...decides you've got to lose your house because Walmart wants the land? I don't remember flying as being all that vital to national security....if it was, how come all the planes were grounded after 9/11? People got by with no planes then.

 

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Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/15/2009 at 12:12 PM
quote:

Public Employee Unions are not allowed to strike. You can't strike against the public interest. It's always been this way. It always will. They were warned. They struck. They were fired and replaced.


Since when were the air controllers public employees? As far as striking against the public interest, is that anything like eminent domain where the government...local or otherwise...decides you've got to lose your house because Walmart wants the land? I don't remember flying as being all that vital to national security....if it was, how come all the planes were grounded after 9/11? People got by with no planes then.


Since always. Otherwise how did Reagan fire them? It has nothing to do with eminent domain which is being abused but is another subject. It has nothing to do with national security. Public employees (of which I am one incidentally) are not allowed to strike. Period.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/15/2009 at 12:34 PM
quote:
until someone enacts legislation helping the middle class (tax the ever loving shiat out of the owners)./quote]

Hey Goliath,

not picking a fight, but wanted to know if that is how the middle class got strong to begin with - by taking the shiat out of owners. i wouldn't think it would, but i do not know my history on this.

what did make the middle class strong? do we need to look back in history and try to repeat our rights instead of repeating our wrongs?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/15/2009 at 02:17 PM
quote:
quote:
Wall street did it to us
You had me until this. Wall Street made you (not YOU, emr) buy a flat screen? Wall Street made you go to Cabo on your Visa Card? Wall Street made millions of people sign mortgages they knew they couldn't afford?

I think not.
Ditto. I get weary of people refusing to take responsibility for stupid financial choices involving spending money they do not have to buy stuff, stuff, and more stuff that is totally unnecessary. We are accountable for the decisions we make in life.

 

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"Come on down to the Mermaid Cafe and I will buy you a bottle of wine, and we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down..."

 
 


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