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Author: Subject: My proposal to address mass shootings and potential violent persons

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/25/2018 at 12:53 PM
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quote:
I guess the proven effectiveness of our own country's automatic weapons ban escapes you.

Bumps stocks one example of a workaround Trump is now rightfully banning like obedient cuck he is.





Where the Obama administration failed and made bump-stocks available to everyone President Trump is standing up and banning them.





Repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true.... but keep trying

 

Peach Head



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  posted on 3/25/2018 at 03:20 PM
I haven't checked in to this forum in a year at least. Don't let it turn into the phish message board
 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/25/2018 at 08:18 PM
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You guys remember that mass shooting committed by the guy carrying the fully automatic M41A carbine?

Yeah me either.

Golly gosh I guess gun bans really do work.


You mean the gun used in "Aliens"? How do you ban a fictitious firearm?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 08:04 AM
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quote:
quote:
You guys remember that mass shooting committed by the guy carrying the fully automatic M41A carbine?

Yeah me either.

Golly gosh I guess gun bans really do work.


You mean the gun used in "Aliens"? How do you ban a fictitious firearm?

Well thank you sweet baby Jesus for the typo else you might have been compelled to consider a very difficult question. Phew! Now you don't have to think about it.


You are welcome.

Oh, and M4s are not banned for civilian ownership.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 09:01 AM
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AR stands for Armalite Rifle. Armalite is the manufacturer that designed the weapon and designated it the AR-15, Colt bought the rights to the firearm and made it for the government that designated it the M-16.
Semi-auto variants are called AR-15, while the select fire versions full/semi/three shot burst, are called M-16s.

What did you think that the AR stood for? If you thought it stood for automatic rifle, then you have proven you really don't know crap about guns (or how to research before posting).




Can I please go on the record to say that I do not care to know what the silly "code letters" mean on weapons?

A person does not have to know the technical "F-Stop" differences between two professional camera lens to be able to say that child-porn is bad with either of them.

A person does not have to know what "GT" stands for on a car to be able to say that drunk driving is dangerous.

The whole "I can't even discuss guns with someone who knows less than me" trope is pathetic. All there is to know is that sickos are taking these things to schools and very easily killing children.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note, there is a gun store in a town near me that has a billboard along the highway with two women in lingerie holding military-looking rifles and with pistols in holsters strapped around their bare thighs. I have to agree with the previous poster that there is at least a certain segment of gun owners that has a strange erotic connection or fetish with guns that is pretty disturbing. Otherwise, a billboard like this would not be good business. I would like to hear one of the gun culture advocates to explain what this is about. Thanks.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 11:43 AM
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Oh, and M4s are not banned for civilian ownership.


If true, then this is a disgrace. They should be banned. Whoever first allowed these types of weapons to be sold to the general public is at fault as much as the shooters.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 01:04 PM
The difference in what the military uses today and what a civilian can buy is the military issue is a 3 shot burst fire, civilian is semi-auto...which really isn't much of a difference. We are talking split seconds in terms of one trigger pull for 3 shots or 3 fast trigger pulls for the same amount of ammo to be shot.

There has long been a history in this country of guns used by our military and theaters of war also being available to the general public... WWII, Vietnam - historically people could buy either the exact same gun or a version very similar to it.

You could say that the guns used by the military has evolved to the point that civilians should no longer be allowed to own them. Or I could say the character and make-up of our people has changed and they can no longer be counted as responsible owners of these weapons. Yet I'd venture to state that over 99% of AR15 or owners of similar rifles are not using their weapons for murder or criminal purposes. But as I said before like so many other things in life, the bad decisions of a few tend to ruin it for the vast majority doing nothing wrong. As a result here we are.

If we want to talk about the success of an automatic weapons ban and how that has worked and apply it to another gun ban, say a semi-automatic rifle ban the sheer volume of weapons in existence is vastly different. The number of automatic guns available at the time of ban, and also then grandfathered in for legal possession, is much much much smaller than the number of semi-autos in existence today. And every assault weapon ban bill I have seen to date always grandfathers existing preban guns as legal. So one has to temper the expectations of what a gun ban will really do as long as we are talking grandfathering preban guns. Now, if somebody wants to go down the path of removing, or requiring forfeiture of a certain type of gun, I think that would meet a very strong resistance and potentially cause civil unrest. Senators like Mrs Feinstein do not even suggest this so it isn't realistic within the mind of most rational people.

As for photos with guns, I take pictures of my friends shooting their guns when we go to the range. Just like I take pictures of my friends when we hike, play cards, drink beer, or a variety of other thing we do together. I have pictures of people smiling with their gun. Target shooting is fun, it can be competitive and takes patience, skill and practice. So if you get some good shots you are going to be happy with those results. The selfie gun thing, not for me. The people who take those pictures, there must be an image they want to portray, like 'look at me, I'm a bad ass' or something I guess. Some people always want to control how they are viewed by others and to them, a tough looking photo of them with a gun does something for them, I'm not sure what. Lots of people like attention.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 08:26 PM
quote:
quote:


AR stands for Armalite Rifle. Armalite is the manufacturer that designed the weapon and designated it the AR-15, Colt bought the rights to the firearm and made it for the government that designated it the M-16.
Semi-auto variants are called AR-15, while the select fire versions full/semi/three shot burst, are called M-16s.

What did you think that the AR stood for? If you thought it stood for automatic rifle, then you have proven you really don't know crap about guns (or how to research before posting).





(Quote)The whole "I can't even discuss guns with someone who knows less than me" trope is pathetic. All there is to know is that sickos are taking these things to schools and very easily killing children.(Quote)

I don't know who won't talk to people who don't know guns, about guns. Those who wish to ban or rigidly regulate guns, usually don't know much about them and quite often only know what someone tells them about firearms. Example given: what the AR in ar-10 and other armalite products stands for. What designates a semi-auto firearm from a single shot, or even a full auto firearm. What a mil-spec firearm is vs a civ-spec firearm.
If they don't know, how are they going to argue a good case?

Why aren't they arguing a case of keeping the sickos from killing kids at schools?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note, there is a gun store in a town near me that has a billboard along the highway with two women in lingerie holding military-looking rifles and with pistols in holsters strapped around their bare thighs. I have to agree with the previous poster that there is at least a certain segment of gun owners that has a strange erotic connection or fetish with guns that is pretty disturbing. Otherwise, a billboard like this would not be good business. I would like to hear one of the gun culture advocates to explain what this is about. Thanks.



Same reason they use scantily dressed women to sell many products, like shave cream and cars, and booze.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 08:27 PM
quote:
The difference in what the military uses today and what a civilian can buy is the military issue is a 3 shot burst fire, civilian is semi-auto...which really isn't much of a difference. We are talking split seconds in terms of one trigger pull for 3 shots or 3 fast trigger pulls for the same amount of ammo to be shot.

There has long been a history in this country of guns used by our military and theaters of war also being available to the general public... WWII, Vietnam - historically people could buy either the exact same gun or a version very similar to it.

You could say that the guns used by the military has evolved to the point that civilians should no longer be allowed to own them. Or I could say the character and make-up of our people has changed and they can no longer be counted as responsible owners of these weapons. Yet I'd venture to state that over 99% of AR15 or owners of similar rifles are not using their weapons for murder or criminal purposes. But as I said before like so many other things in life, the bad decisions of a few tend to ruin it for the vast majority doing nothing wrong. As a result here we are.

If we want to talk about the success of an automatic weapons ban and how that has worked and apply it to another gun ban, say a semi-automatic rifle ban the sheer volume of weapons in existence is vastly different. The number of automatic guns available at the time of ban, and also then grandfathered in for legal possession, is much much much smaller than the number of semi-autos in existence today. And every assault weapon ban bill I have seen to date always grandfathers existing preban guns as legal. So one has to temper the expectations of what a gun ban will really do as long as we are talking grandfathering preban guns. Now, if somebody wants to go down the path of removing, or requiring forfeiture of a certain type of gun, I think that would meet a very strong resistance and potentially cause civil unrest. Senators like Mrs Feinstein do not even suggest this so it isn't realistic within the mind of most rational people.

As for photos with guns, I take pictures of my friends shooting their guns when we go to the range. Just like I take pictures of my friends when we hike, play cards, drink beer, or a variety of other thing we do together. I have pictures of people smiling with their gun. Target shooting is fun, it can be competitive and takes patience, skill and practice. So if you get some good shots you are going to be happy with those results. The selfie gun thing, not for me. The people who take those pictures, there must be an image they want to portray, like 'look at me, I'm a bad ass' or something I guess. Some people always want to control how they are viewed by others and to them, a tough looking photo of them with a gun does something for them, I'm not sure what. Lots of people like attention.


Good post Nebish.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 09:38 PM
Doesn’t matter if it’s the AR, the M, the XYZ, the PDQ or the WTF. Nothing’s getting banned.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/26/2018 at 09:45 PM
quote:
As for photos with guns, I take pictures of my friends shooting their guns when we go to the range. Just like I take pictures of my friends when we hike, play cards, drink beer, or a variety of other thing we do together. I have pictures of people smiling with their gun. Target shooting is fun, it can be competitive and takes patience, skill and practice. So if you get some good shots you are going to be happy with those results. The selfie gun thing, not for me. The people who take those pictures, there must be an image they want to portray, like 'look at me, I'm a bad ass' or something I guess. Some people always want to control how they are viewed by others and to them, a tough looking photo of them with a gun does something for them, I'm not sure what. Lots of people like attention.


It seems like most of these mass shooters have taken selfish with their guns (not just photos at gun ranges or hunting).

I see the argument all the time that an AR-15 is a semiautomatic that does the same thing as semiautomatic guns that look like hunting rifles, so banning an AR-15 just because it looks scary is ignorant. Well, the AR-15 is the preferred gun in these shootings, so maybe they use it because it looks scary and it makes them feel more like a badass. Maybe they wouldn't be doing the mass shooting at all if the weapon looked like a hunting rifle. Maybe if all AR-15s were required to be pink with purple and yellow flowers painted on them they wouldn't feel quite so badass and would take out their frustration doing something else instead.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/27/2018 at 02:19 AM
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quote:
Oh, and M4s are not banned for civilian ownership.


Whoever first allowed these types of weapons to be sold to the general public is at fault as much as the shooters.


Disagree. No one and I repeat, No one, is as responsible for the act of shooting as the shooter.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/27/2018 at 08:38 AM
I too really do want to make the acquisition and purchase of alot of these guns more difficult by the 'wrong' people. Since it can be difficult to figure out who these wrong people are before they do something wrong, everyone will end up - or should end up - having to jump through more hoops to buy certain guns. And it goes back to the 'if you aren't doing anything wrong or have done anything wrong then you should have nothing to worry about'. I know some flaws with that thinking when applied to other controversial topics, like surveillance for instance. That is just how my mind works. I will submit anything they want in order to verify my eligibility to purchase said gun if that is what they want because I am confident in my mental stability and my background and my proper use of any gun I may want to purchase.

So that is where I'm at. I want more data in our systems to cross reference against to try and block purchases that shouldn't be allowed to go through. And then a host of other things as well.

I appreciate how some people will want to ban the guns. I mean, I think I get where you are coming from. And I think a few of us here also understand my point of the immediate impact of a gun ban would be minimal. I'll conceded that a ban would have a longer term effect of reducing the number in circulation, and if that is the stated goal I think that is the honest way to present the argument. Some gun buy back type program could have some small effect compared to the overall number out there, I think our country is different. We have a culture of gun ownership, a history of it and in some respects a passion for it that other nations do not have. For the lifespan of all of us we are going to have to live with guns in our society that is a fact. I think the best thing we can do is focus our attention on stopping people from obtaining them who at highest risk of using them to willfully commit violence and crime with them.

Just one other thing, the point 2112 was making, partially tongue-and-check perhaps, but yeah, if you did make the AR15 pink or whatever "maybe they would take out their frustration doing something else instead"...I don't know or understand what goes through these people's minds, but if the AR15 did not exist (or some similar variant of it), the desire these people have for carrying out an attack doesn't go away does it? I dont know why it would. I can't fathom that these people only wish to kill because of the gun(s) they are using. I have to believe the fantasy and want is to kill first and foremost, then they seek the appropriate means to achieve that goal. And the AR15 is a good choice for their purpose. Ofcourse there are many other guns or weapons or means they could carry out a deadly attack as well. I'm here with you though, if the AR15 is the primary choice, we need to make that primary choice more restrictive and difficult to obtain. And then with each alternative an attacker considers we find some marginally more favorable outcomes...maybe more victims live if they use another gun, maybe making an explosive is too problematic or prone to not work right, down the line we go.

These defective people still want to carry out their twisted visions. If we can agree that limiting access and creating barriers is a proper way to go then we are atleast in some agreement on a really difficult issue and can work towards what those restrictions and rules become. While we are at it, we must not ignore failures in our current system that have allowed guns to legally be purchased by people who shouldn't have purchased them. Alot needs done. We can't reliably count on the federal government to do this. But state governments continue to lead and make changes. This is really where anyone can and should put their efforts at this point.

[Edited on 3/27/2018 by nebish]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/30/2018 at 10:45 AM
The far end of the pro-gun crowd definitely has some weird affection towards it. I think these people are deeply insecure and take the photos to show that they are powerful, which means they feel as though they are not. Then there's the hunting crowd - people like Carson Wentz. He's a devout Christian, positive member of the community, a role model, sky is the limit - but posts pictures on IG of his hunting kills. I'm not saying there's anything wrong or immoral about it, but I do believe there's a dark reason why, of all the hobbies in the world to choose from, he chooses one that involves killing/taking the life of something else. If that's how he chooses to deal with his demons, then it's better than shooting up a school, but I'm simply stating that there's probably demons deep down inside anyone fascinated with guns and killing.
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 3/30/2018 at 02:31 PM
quote:
The far end of the pro-gun crowd definitely has some weird affection towards it. I think these people are deeply insecure and take the photos to show that they are powerful, which means they feel as though they are not. Then there's the hunting crowd - people like Carson Wentz. He's a devout Christian, positive member of the community, a role model, sky is the limit - but posts pictures on IG of his hunting kills. I'm not saying there's anything wrong or immoral about it, but I do believe there's a dark reason why, of all the hobbies in the world to choose from, he chooses one that involves killing/taking the life of something else. If that's how he chooses to deal with his demons, then it's better than shooting up a school, but I'm simply stating that there's probably demons deep down inside anyone fascinated with guns and killing.



There is nothing dark about a law abiding citizen out in the woods on a legal hunt. It happens every day all over the country. The taking of an animal life is nowhere close to murdering people. The vast majority of gun owners are just regular people that have no intention of killing anyone, unless it was for self defense, let alone mass murder.

[Edited on 3/30/2018 by funkyfitter]

[Edited on 3/30/2018 by funkyfitter]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/30/2018 at 03:48 PM
quote:
There is nothing dark about a law abiding citizen out in the woods on a legal hunt. It happens every day all over the country.


I never said it did. My post says that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.

quote:
The taking of an animal life is nowhere close to murdering people.


Agreed. I think hunting is way better than murdering people too.

quote:
The vast majority of gun owners are just regular people that have no intention of killing anyone, unless it was for self defense, let alone mass murder.


Hence why I wrote “the far end” of the pro-gun crowd.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 3/30/2018 at 03:58 PM
quote:
quote:
There is nothing dark about a law abiding citizen out in the woods on a legal hunt. It happens every day all over the country.


I never said it did. My post says that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.

quote:
The taking of an animal life is nowhere close to murdering people.


Agreed. I think hunting is way better than murdering people too.

quote:
The vast majority of gun owners are just regular people that have no intention of killing anyone, unless it was for self defense, let alone mass murder.


Hence why I wrote “the far end” of the pro-gun crowd.




I know. It was your deep seeded dark comment that got me thinking.
As a legal, gun carrying vet, I'm just tired of so many people thinking that every person that shoots a gun is a psycho, yahoo with no moral conscious that's ready to go off at the drop of a hat

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/31/2018 at 09:53 AM
quote:
It was your deep seeded dark comment that got me thinking.
As a legal, gun carrying vet, I'm just tired of so many people thinking that every person that shoots a gun is a psycho, yahoo with no moral conscious that's ready to go off at the drop of a hat


Whoever thinks that would be wrong. I enjoy target practice myself. It's fun to shoot. I'm simply referring to those who enjoy killing animals. There are poor families in rural areas who hunt for their nightly dinner, and I fully respect that. But then there are fortunate people like Carson Wentz who can choose any hobby in the world, but chooses to post pics of himself smiling next to a pile of dead geese. I'm not saying he's a psycho yahoo ready to go off at the drop of a hat, as you put it. But I do think there's something dark that motivates these types of people to want to take a life.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 3/31/2018 at 11:59 AM

Whoever thinks that would be wrong. I enjoy target practice myself. It's fun to shoot. I'm simply referring to those who enjoy killing animals. There are poor families in rural areas who hunt for their nightly dinner, and I fully respect that. But then there are fortunate people like Carson Wentz who can choose any hobby in the world, but chooses to post pics of himself smiling next to a pile of dead geese. I'm not saying he's a psycho yahoo ready to go off at the drop of a hat, as you put it. But I do think there's something dark that motivates these types of people to want to take a life.




I just disagree that it's dark. It's hunting. Nothing more, nothing less.
Do you feel the same way about a guy with a stringer of trout ?

[Edited on 3/31/2018 by funkyfitter]

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/31/2018 at 05:58 PM
Fair points. Maybe the word “dark” is too strong. I just think trophy hunters have something to prove.
 
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