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Author: Subject: The 2018 Nominees for the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame are...

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 10:48 AM
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Answer is simple. Make the voting like the baseball hof. Percentage needed rather than five a year.

Do you feel the biggest problem is that there are too many bands in there? That's the only thing that would solve. There are around 300 inductees but my sense is that most people get more annoyed by who's out than who's in.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 11:10 AM
There are years great bands have to wait; years like this one where pickings are slim. I think if it was just by votes the strongest candidates would be rewarded and borderline people wouldn't get in during a weak year
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 11:13 AM
What about Steppenwolf and QUICKSILVER mESSENGER Service. They both played Rock and Roll and broke new ground.Bunch of **** Sat the hall.

 

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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 11:26 AM
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There are years great bands have to wait; years like this one where pickings are slim. I think if it was just by votes the strongest candidates would be rewarded and borderline people wouldn't get in during a weak year

That would probably reduce that at least a little, maybe not that much. You can tell they're worried about having no inductees in one year or an induction ceremony without much star power.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 12:54 PM
The comparison to the baseball HOF is interesting. In sports you can attach numbers to a particular player. Make your argument from there. I don't care how many records a band or person sells, it is totally subjective. Who do you like? And are you open minded enough to appreciate the act's influence in the grand scheme of things even if you don't care for them?

There are several bands I really like and if I built my own HOF they would be in but I am not naive enough to think they will be in the R&R HOF.

 

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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 03:51 PM
Love Steppenwolf and Quicksilver; but their time span for influence wasn't that long. Don't think their should be a time limit like the baseball HOF - but for shorter careers you really need to have made a difference (Buddy Holly comes to mind)
 

Peach Head



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  posted on 10/6/2017 at 07:36 PM
Radiohead is the most deserving and a sure lock.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/7/2017 at 03:08 AM
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Bon Jovi has sold world wide and continue to do so. They are an act from the 'hair Metal" years that never lost popularity and continued to sell both albums and tickets. Countless hits. You may not like them but to question whether they should get in? That is like a baseball player having a 25 year career and batting .400 each season and winning 20 Golden Glove Awards and debating if they are worthy of the HOF. Their success is undeniable.

Nobody's denying their success. They're saying they're not one of the greatest bands ever. The baseball player you described would be the best ever by such a huge margin that nobody would even argue about it anymore and nobody thinks that's Bon Jovi's place in rock. They've sold a ton of records and they must be a bunch of people's favorite (btw: their last big hit was almost 20 years ago), but in terms of influence or innovation I don't think that's how most people see them. Maybe they have more influence than I know about since hair metal isn't my thing.

Not that you need me to tell you this, but since this isn't a sport there are no championships or relevant statistics and not much agreement on what the "sport" is, it's hard to argue anybody HAS to be in. Garth Brooks has sold about the same number of records as Bon Jovi, I think, and so has Celine Dion. Neither of them is getting in even though other artists with lesser sales who definitely didn't make rock music are already in. Also: you can argue the best baseball player ever is not in the Hall of Fame. I dunno what that tells you about any of this.

I appreciate it when the hall honors people I like, and when they induct people whose music I don't enjoy, I don't care. So I'm not going to make a case against Bon Jovi other than I find their music not just crappy but almost deliberately boring. I don't know what else you can say about a band that tried to show attitude by writing a song called "Have a Nice Day" (it was sarcastic, get it?). That's the end of the argument for me. But you can't argue that leaving them out compromises the integrity of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because the whole project has none. I don't even mean that in a derogatory way. It's just fundamentally arbitrary and mostly reflects one person's view of music.


Crappy=judgemental so I doubt that you are biased or even making sense. LOL

How many people do you think find 30 minutes of Mountain Jam boring? Most of the planet. But you will just respond that they are wrong and you are right.

Opinions differ Marley. I know that you are a far better judge of music than the millions world wide that bought their albums and went to shows and still do which is quite a rarity in todays industry. They still sell out arenas and in some cities stadiums. Very few acts can do the tours that they do and have done for 35 years.

Over 130 million albums sold. Uncountable millions in tickets sold. Toured the entire planet over and over. Sustained a massively successfully for 35 years. So they shouldn't get in because Marley thinks they are boring? That is funny. Try and mock when their last hit was? How many did the ABB have Marley? When was the last?

I know - they are bad and don't deserve anything because they didn't influence Marley and he thinks they are crap and boring. Quite a convincing case you made. Just deny the obvious. I hope you never get jury duty.

35 years
130 million sales not including singles, Cds, DVDs etc
Still sell out arenas and stadiums

And you think no one was influenced because you were not? Two guys who were inducted into the Songwriters Hall Of Fame and you think they had no influence? Really? How the hell could you actually believe that?

A career like that and you honestly believe it is debatable? What more do they have to do? Go to space? Cure cancer? They are a R&R band who attained any goal that a band could wish for. Did they change the world? No. Did the ABB? No. You don't like them. I get it. LOL

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/8/2017 at 12:05 PM
So given the choice between arguing that Bon Jovi actually is an all-time great rock band to someone who only knows a couple of their hits and doesn't like them or arguing that I'm a snob, you picked the second one. Dude, I know I'm a snob. If you asked "are you a music snob," I've have said "sure" and given you better examples than this.

I did say I wouldn't vote for them personally because I dislike their music. That's a personal taste thing, which is why it's basically an aside in that post. It's not a thing you can argue about. I don't think people who like BJ have bad taste or are stupid or wrong.

The real argument I had is with your total certainty that it's insane to say they're not a Hall of Fame band. And they didn't get a lot of votes in this thread. There's probably not a ton of ABB-Bon Jovi fan overlap. My opinion is this: since Rock and Roll Hall of Fame membership is almost purely arbitrary, outside of a very small number of artists - 25? 50? Definitely not 300 - there are very few artists you can point to and say "they have to be in or this thing is a joke." Bon Jovi has achieved all kinds of success but they're not one of those bands. The only thing you've really said to argue that they belong is that they sold a lot of albums and concert tickets, which they definitely did. But lots of bands that have sold huge numbers of albums aren't in the hall or weren't sure things, and lots of artists in the hall hardly sold any records. Plus there are great artists who definitely didn't make rock music who are in there. So I don't think you can say "they sold a lot of albums and tickets" and let that be the whole argument.

When I said I didn't see them as an influential band I also acknowledged that I don't really listen to the kind of music they make, so maybe they're more influential than I'm personally aware of. I don't see them as influential on a scale of hard rock or metal bands like Metallica or Kiss or Aerosmith, for example, but maybe that's setting the bar too high.

Does anybody want to make an actual hall of fame case for Bon Jovi and not be totally offended I'm not already convinced they're all-timers?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/8/2017 at 01:56 PM
Again you discuss them as if their accomplishments are average and that many bands have achieved that level of success. They are far from average.

Dismiss a planet full of people that love them and keep them releasing material and playing sold out shows after 35 years. Dismiss gigantic sales? Hell those are only people that liked it enough to buy it.

Spin it any way you want. You are debating a 400 career hitter and career Golden Glover getting in the HOF. You don't see the comparison then you have no idea of just how much this band achieved. You think they are average and many have accomplished what they have? When every other 'hair" band or "metal" disappeared - their tickets sales increased. Why? They are not average in any way. Songwriter HOF have it wrong too?

You think there are no clear cut automatics that should enter. Only a few since the 80s and U2 and Bon Jovi are two of them. Disagree which is obviously your right but it is like saying Kobe shouldn't get in because Jordan was better and influenced more people.

The level of success in undeniable and if a planet of people loving and buying your music and shows for 35 years doesn't get you entrance then what does?

I love these debates. Comical.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 10/8/2017 at 05:05 PM
Delaney & Bonnie & Friends & Little Feat need to be inducted. The Hall is OK...but Jann Wenner is an ass for so many that are not included.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/8/2017 at 07:39 PM
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Again you discuss them as if their accomplishments are average and that many bands have achieved that level of success.

You're arguing against things I didn't say. This obviously touched a nerve with you for some reason, and I don't think that reason has much to do with me. With luck I'll remember to avoid talking to you in the future. I don't much enjoy having conversations like this and it's probably torture for people to read, assuming they don't just scroll past, rolling their eyes.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/8/2017 at 10:15 PM
Wish you had that avoided me long ago. LOL

You have never enjoyed conversations like this as perhaps someone calls you out on your pompous, arrogant attitude and self-righteousness. Been done often over the years by many people and you always react the same. I have always enjoyed seeing it - you always just disappear when confronted by fact.

You never strike a nerve Marley and never will. You clearly proved your point. You don't like something - means it is no good. Regardless of obvious fact slapping you in the face. Never stopped you before and won't now.

Argue against your points? You didn't make any. Aside from letting us know that you don't like them and therefore they clearly are not deserving.

Don't worry about rolling eyes - people have been doing it for years and again it never stopped you before.

You felt the need to try and tell me how wrong I was - you have done it often over the years - failed again. Your intentions are always completely transparent.

Just for you.

You are right - one of the most successful acts in American Music History doesn't deserve the status. Clearly a logical viewpoint. They should put the unsuccessful ones in first.

What was I thinking? Now that I disregard any actual facts or reality, it is obvious. Thanks for setting me straight.

Imagine all those hits, sales, fans, Songwriter HOF status and all by a band that was trying to be "deliberately boring". Jon is a F'N Genius.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 10/8/2017 at 10:36 PM
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Wish you had that avoided me long ago. LOL

You have never enjoyed conversations like this as perhaps someone calls you out on your pompous, arrogant attitude and self-righteousness. Been done often over the years by many people and you always react the same. I have always enjoyed seeing it - you always just disappear when confronted by fact.

You never strike a nerve Marley and never will. You clearly proved your point. You don't like something - means it is no good. Regardless of obvious fact slapping you in the face. Never stopped you before and won't now.

Argue against your points? You didn't make any. Aside from letting us know that you don't like them and therefore they clearly are not deserving.

Don't worry about rolling eyes - people have been doing it for years and again it never stopped you before.

You felt the need to try and tell me how wrong I was - you have done it often over the years - failed again. Your intentions are always completely transparent.

Just for you.

You are right - one of the most successful acts in American Music History doesn't deserve the status. Clearly a logical viewpoint. They should put the unsuccessful ones in first.

What was I thinking? Now that I disregard any actual facts or reality, it is obvious. Thanks for setting me straight.

Imagine all those hits, sales, fans, Songwriter HOF status and all by a band that was trying to be "deliberately boring". Jon is a F'N Genius.



its ok. people seem to have issues with bon jovi. over on another forum bon jovi, and for who knows what reason huey lewis and the news, are getting trashed. one person said those 2 bands are so generic and would have struggled to make it as pub bands if ther were from australia . guess they don't know huey lewis paid his dues for about a decade in the bar circuit

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 06:32 AM
Hall of Fame to me is like the Grammys - completely out of touch w/musicians and very in touch with money-makers.


 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 11:26 AM
I am no Bon Jovi fan but it ought to be pretty obvious that beyond any of our own personal tastes they are a 1st ballot RRHOF band and there is like zero chance they won't be inducted.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 11:54 AM
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I am no Bon Jovi fan but it ought to be pretty obvious that beyond any of our own personal tastes they are a 1st ballot RRHOF band and there is like zero chance they won't be inducted.

You're probably right. They've sold lots of albums and the Hall loves its stars collaborating (oh man, Radiohead and Bon Jovi together would be hilarious), so they're very likely to get in. But if someone wants to give a little background on the importance or influence of this band to an admitted non-fan I actually would be interested to read it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 01:08 PM
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That's the best I can explain it,Marley...sometimes taste has no explanation beyond emotions.

I know how being a fan works. I'm asking about their influence or their place in music history.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 04:36 PM
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I'm asking about their influence or their place in music history.


Their place in music history? One of the most successful American (or anywhere) bands of all time. That is what makes this debate rather comical. You don't have to like it to accept basic fact.

Influence? One of the most successful writing duos in music history. Huge selling band. Countless people going to show. As with every band/musician it inspires people to sing and/or play.

Ritchie Sambora smokes on guitar and can obviously write. You may not like the songs and think he is writing to bore people but millions upon millions disagree. Ask Al Paul about Ritchie's influence on the guitar magazine business and his influence. Cover stories, articles, songs transcribed and endorsement deals. Why? Because of his influence on guitar.

Cover bands across the globe play their songs. Why? Because millions of people want to hear them.

God Forbid that stats are brought up even though every single other HOF uses them. MLB Inducts minor leaguers and people with terrible stats into the HOF all the time. LOL It is so obvious. If you don't get it then maybe you never will.

Add in the fact that they are really nice guys who love all the classic rock that we do.

Richie Sambora (of Bon Jovi) - "Midnight Rider + Wanted Dead Or Alive" - 6-14-98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_b0c0o2KGY

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 06:49 PM
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still no johnny winter, grand funk railroad or mountain. doh.


Or Little Feat!

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 10/9/2017 at 06:54 PM
From the rock and roll hall of fame website regarding eligibility:

Artistsóa group encompassing performers, composers and/or musiciansóbecome eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first commercial recording. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 12:50 PM
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From the rock and roll hall of fame website regarding eligibility:

Artistsóa group encompassing performers, composers and/or musiciansóbecome eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first commercial recording. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.


Thanks for posting the actual guidelines.

Weasel-word is "unquestionable." As far as I know, there are no unquestionable standards of musical excellence. It's either subjective or money-making/chart-topping.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 10/10/2017 at 02:19 PM
Supposedly Sister Rosetta Tharpe was an important influence on Chuck Berry.

She looks like the neighbor down the street. Until she starts playing and singing -- then she becomes a force of nature.

Crash course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnAQATKRBN0

Sister Rosetta Tharpe 101:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sister+rosetta+tharpe

Play her loud!

Billastro

 

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