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Author: Subject: Obama: Honduras Coup "Not Legal"

Peach Extraordinaire





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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 07:11 AM
It's hardly surprising that BarryO would join his Marxist/Socialist allies Chavez, Ortega and the Castro brothers in condemning the result of Zelaya trying to upsurp the Honduran constitution in order to make himself el presidente for life, ala Chavez. We have an outright communist sympathizer as president. There can be no doubt now.

# # #

Obama: Honduras Coup "Not Legal"
President Says Manuel Zelaya Remains Country's President, Wants To Avoid "Dark Past" Of Military Coups

(AP) President Barack Obama on Monday declared that the United States still considers Manuel Zelaya to be the president of Honduras and assailed the coup that forced him into exile as "not legal," deepening the chasm between the Central American nation and much of the rest of the world.

"It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition rather than democratic elections," Obama said in the Oval Office after meeting with Colombian President Alviro Uribe. "The region has made enormous progress over the last 20 years in establishing democratic traditions in Central America and Latin America. We don't want to go back to a dark past."

Leaders from across the Western Hemisphere and beyond called for return to power of Zelaya, who arrested on Sunday morning by soldiers who stormed his residence and forced him into exile. The country now has another president appointed by its Congress, Roberto Micheletti, who insisted that Zelaya was legally removed by the courts and Congress for violating Honduras' constitution and attempting to extend his own rule.

"We are very clear about the fact that President Zelaya is the democratically elected president," Obama said.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 08:18 AM
The only thing that theres no doubt about is that you are 100% clueless.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 09:46 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be meddling? I thought he didn't believe in doing that.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 11:34 AM
quote:
Isn't it pathetic to watch certain right wingers side with military dictatorship over democracy, simply because Obama (along with every single other leader of the free world) favors democracy and is against military coups?
It's equally sad to not see the full story reported in the US media, from which these kinds of conclusions are reached.

The Honduran Constitution specifically states that an elected President serves for one term of four years. Zelaya won the election and was placed in office in Nov. of 2005. His term is nearing it's end. In a bid to extend his power (gee, politicians never do things like that), he cooked up a referendum to change the constitution to permit a second term. Since he knew he couldn't get the courts and legislature to go along with the move, he tried to enlist the help of the army. One of the generals refused to help, so he tried to fire him. That sparked the crisis: the Honduran President tried to go around the country's Constitutional and democratic processes, trying to use the army in the process, and got his ass handed to him (as he deserved).

You have to go back a few days to find a proper description of the events -

quote:
Honduras in crisis over president re-election bid

TEGUCIGALPA (Reuters) - The Honduran supreme court barred President Manuel Zelaya from ousting the military chief of staff on Thursday after the army refused to help him run an unofficial referendum on extending his mandate, escalating a constitutional crisis.

Zelaya fired Gen. Romeo Vasquez, who heads the armed forces, and accepted the defence minister's resignation late on Wednesday, saying the shake-up was due "to a crisis caused by some sectors that have promoted destabilisation and chaos."

But the supreme court reversed the president's decision arguing the move was unconstitutional and reinstated Vasquez ahead of Zelaya's referendum scheduled for Sunday.

"The resolution was arbitrary and violated the constitution and the law of the armed forces so the official should be reinstated to his post," court magistrate Rosalinda Cruz told a news conference.

Zelaya has moved the impoverished Central American country closer to Venezuela's socialist President Hugo Chavez since taking power in 2006.

He is organizing the referendum to change the constitution to let him run for a second term, following similar moves by leftist allies in Latin America, but it holds no legal weight after a court ruled it invalid.

Honduran presidents serve four-year terms and the constitution does not allow re-election.

Zelaya rallied supporters in Tegucigalpa on Thursday and vowed to go ahead with the contested vote.

"No one can stop the referendum on Sunday," he shouted to a cheering crowd.

The leader of a small political party has warned that Zelaya could be removed in a coup because of the referendum, which critics say is a power grab by the president.

"The most worrisome part is that today we have seen some threats of a coup against Zelaya," said Cesar Ham, who heads the leftist Democratic Unification Party.

The president moved against the military because they refused to distribute ballot boxes for Sunday's referendum as is customary in Honduran elections, said a source in the presidency. Defence Minister Edmundo Orellana also quit.



So as much as the military intervention is distasteful, who started it? Zelaya did! But listen to the US media, the morons at the UN, and our apparently democracy-challenged President, you'd think this guy was some sort of hero. The question is; why is Obama apparently supporting this guy's actions in obvious defiance of his country's democratic process?

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 11:39 AM
quote:
Isn't it pathetic to watch certain right wingers side with military dictatorship over democracy, simply because Obama (along with every single other leader of the free world) favors democracy and is against military coups?


Except it isn't a military dictatorship in Honduras, genius. Their equivalent to our Senate and Supreme Court BOTH told Zeleya he couldn't upsurp the Honduran Constitution to extend his presidency. He broke the law. He got a free ride out of the country. Nary a shot fired.

Now we have BarryO on the same page with the Castros, Ortega and Chavez, America HATERS ALL and that doesn't appear to concern you. Why am I not surprised.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 12:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Isn't it pathetic to watch certain right wingers side with military dictatorship over democracy, simply because Obama (along with every single other leader of the free world) favors democracy and is against military coups?


Except it isn't a military dictatorship in Honduras, genius. Their equivalent to our Senate and Supreme Court BOTH told Zeleya he couldn't upsurp the Honduran Constitution to extend his presidency. He broke the law. He got a free ride out of the country. Nary a shot fired.

Now we have BarryO on the same page with the Castros, Ortega and Chavez, America HATERS ALL and that doesn't appear to concern you. Why am I not surprised.


Your understanding of world politics is nil


RBK's stupidity is the only constant in an ever changing world.
So what are you offering to counter his assertions? I provide a sequence of events, a news report from a trusted source to back it up, that all seem to point to the same questions/conclusions RBK raises. Are personal opinion and attacks the only tools you got?

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 01:01 PM
quote:
quote:
So as much as the military intervention is distasteful, who started it? Zelaya did! But listen to the US media, the morons at the UN, and our apparently democracy-challenged President, you'd think this guy was some sort of hero. The question is; why is Obama apparently supporting this guy's actions in obvious defiance of his country's democratic process?


In what crazy world can you justify removing the democratically-elected President from power for trying to conduct a referendum on term limits? Zelaya is no hero but nor has he taken any action that threatens their government. Meanwhile, a group of generals rise up and forcibly remove him from power, transport him out of the country, install themselves as new leaders, and you're trying to tell me they represent democracy in action? What a joke.
In what world do you advocate a President attempting to use his country's army to go around the legislature and courts to help him in his aims against the democratic principles of his country? You've got the order of events backwards, or at least conveniently omitting those important first steps. I assume you're in favor of dictatorial regimes then?

What's funny is to watch some (not necessarily you Marc) who were so worried that Bush would pull some sort of state-of-emergency-power-grab, now support a Honduran President whose trying to do very nearly the same thing to retain his power. Unbelievable!

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:14 PM
And isn't he still the elected president until November of this year to finish out his four year term? Just asking.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:35 PM
quote:
Isn't it pathetic to watch certain right wingers side with military dictatorship over democracy, simply because Obama (along with every single other leader of the free world) favors democracy and is against military coups?


You actually have it completely backwards. Why do you think the dictators want him back? The Army overthrew him because he refused to step down as the constitution required and tried to manipulate the law to keep himself in power much as Chavez has done and as other properly elected demagogues have done. The army immediately put the appropriate constitutionally mandated person in power and an election is going to be held. All this is totally supported by the Hondoran people. This is an effort to PRESERVE Democracy in Honduras. I have NO idea what the administration thinks it is doing by attacking this. If the demagogue gets returned to power it will be solely due to US pressure and will likely sour our relations with Honduras for a generation. I refuse to believe Obama actually supports left wing dictatorships in Central America. I can only assume it is because he is listening to the jackasses of the State Department who actually have no idea what on earth they are doing.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:37 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Isn't it pathetic to watch certain right wingers side with military dictatorship over democracy, simply because Obama (along with every single other leader of the free world) favors democracy and is against military coups?


Except it isn't a military dictatorship in Honduras, genius. Their equivalent to our Senate and Supreme Court BOTH told Zeleya he couldn't upsurp the Honduran Constitution to extend his presidency. He broke the law. He got a free ride out of the country. Nary a shot fired.

Now we have BarryO on the same page with the Castros, Ortega and Chavez, America HATERS ALL and that doesn't appear to concern you. Why am I not surprised.


Your understanding of world politics is nil


RBK's stupidity is the only constant in an ever changing world.


This is not a response.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:38 PM
quote:
quote:
So as much as the military intervention is distasteful, who started it? Zelaya did! But listen to the US media, the morons at the UN, and our apparently democracy-challenged President, you'd think this guy was some sort of hero. The question is; why is Obama apparently supporting this guy's actions in obvious defiance of his country's democratic process?


In what crazy world can you justify removing the democratically-elected President from power for trying to conduct a referendum on term limits? Zelaya is no hero but nor has he taken any action that threatens their government. Meanwhile, a group of generals rise up and forcibly remove him from power, transport him out of the country, install themselves as new leaders, and you're trying to tell me they represent democracy in action? What a joke.


They are not the new leaders. He did not try to "conduct a referendum" He tried to manipualte and distort his way to a second term. The people of Honduras did not want this. They support the action taken. Any referendum that passed would have been fraudulent. Whatever happened to not intervening? Or is the rule when Obama intervenes it is good when anyone else does, it is bad.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:40 PM
quote:
quote:
In what world do you advocate a President attempting to use his country's army to go around the legislature and courts to help him in his aims against the democratic principles of his country? You've got the order of events backwards, or at least conveniently omitting those important first steps. I assume you're in favor of dictatorial regimes then?


Let's be clear, Zelaya was democratically elected and he is within his rights to pursue constitutional amendments if he so chooses. As I understood it, he wasn't seeking to install himself as lifetime president. Regardless, there is nothing legal and nothing pro-democratic about militaristic coups. If Zelaya's moves leading up to the coup were shady, that doesn't justify his forcible removal and deportation. The reaction is 100x more damaging than anything Zelaya intended. That's why every country and every leader, from Obama to freakin' Hugo Chavez, has condemned the military uprising, and that's why ultimately Zelaya will end up back in control of the country he was elected to lead.


He was going to be prosecuted. He was offered exile as an alternative. The "coup" was supported by both the legislature and the Courts. It will not lead to a military dictatorship but a new election of an executive chosen by the people as the Constitution mandates.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:42 PM
quote:
And isn't he still the elected president until November of this year to finish out his four year term? Just asking.


He is but he resigned rather than face prosecution in Honduras. Amazing, Bush did none of these things but everyone constantly feared he would refuse t leave office. What Nixon did wasn't a fraction what this is. But this is ok? Why? I can only imagine it is because President Obama says it is ok. I cannot conceive that if President Bush approved of it and this guy was a right wing type that all would be ok with it.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:47 PM
Prosecution for what?

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:54 PM
quote:
Prosecution for what?


I imagine for his illegal efforts to use the military to fraudulently usurp the constitutional process. I know here in our REAL country we frown on that sort of thing.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:55 PM
quote:
Yeah, that State Department, they sure wouldn't know anything about these things, would they? But somehow you can definitively tell me the will of the Honduran people? How many of those same people who voted him into office were given a vote to remove him?

How one can claim with a straight face that the appropriate response to a proposed constitutional amendment involves overthrowing and forcibly removing the President from power before the end of his term is beyond me. How anyone could support the actions of the Honduran military, even as they are condemned by literally every single nation across the Americas (no exaggeration, mind you), is beyond me. Again, whatever you think about Zelaya, and it's clear that he isn't a heroic figure by any means, this coup is more damaging to Honduras than anything Zelaya has ever done. It is a disaster. It is a democracy in its death throes. If anyone can explain why this should be tolerated in the free world, I'd be interested to hear it.


All I can say is you are through the looking glass. You have it exactly backwards. Exactly.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 02:57 PM
This is from the Miami Herald

What's the Chance of Stability?
By Carlos Alberto Montaner

The United States, the OAS, the European Union, Hugo Chávez, Fidel Castro -- most of all, Chávez and Castro -- want Manuel Zelaya immediately restored to the presidency of Honduras. He was expelled from the country on the morning of June 28.

Almost by unanimity, the Honduran Congress, supported by the Supreme Court, had removed him for breaking the law and ignoring the rulings of the Electoral Tribunal. But that was a technical excuse. The deep truth is a lot more dramatic: Zelaya, obstinate and rash, intent on being reelected at any cost, heedless of all the warnings of the judiciary and the legislature, intended to drag the nation in the direction of Chávez, something that in Honduras would have been the beginning of a huge economic and social Via Crucis.

Immediately, the parliamentarians elected as his substitute Roberto Micheletti, a lawyer from Zelaya's own party who, until a few hours earlier, had been president of the legislative chamber. It seems that most Hondurans, including the Christian churches, support the action.

In reality, from a formal point of view, there is nothing surprising in the way Zelaya was removed. It was Congress -- in accord with the Armed Forces, after receiving a resignation letter signed under duress -- that replaced Gonzalo Sánchez de Losada in Bolivia (2003), Abdalá Bucaram (1997), Jamil Mahuad (2000) and Lucio Gutiérrez (2005) in Ecuador, and Jorge Serrano in Guatemala (1993).

In those cases, however, the international community barely paid any attention to the incident. Those were political squabbles that became clashes between the public powers and were resolved by means of a constitutional solution that saved the existing legality. Technically, they were not coups d'état but extreme forms of retaining a vestige of legality. In this case, however, despite the enormous domestic support behind Zelaya's removal, the international reaction has been different.

21st-century socialism

Why? Basically, because the ousted president in recent years had timidly joined (albeit in a rhetorical manner) the so-called ''21st-century socialism,'' a warring ideological family with a large resonance box. The family is directed by Hugo Chávez, who in 1992 was the author of one of the bloodiest military coups in the history of Latin America, but who today, invoking democracy, wasted no time warning that he will overthrow any president who replaces his friend Zelaya.

What we're seeing in Honduras is not a clash between uniformed men and civilians, or between putschists and innocent functionaries. Nor is it a return to the lamentable past of military governments. We are witnessing a conflict between two ways of understanding the function of the state and the role of the political leaders. Chávez's way -- an incipient ruling concept that Zelaya irresponsibly assumed in Honduras -- is a variant of state-run collectivism, a political stream that does away with the separation of powers that is part and parcel of republics. It exalts the personalist style, eliminates replacement of the leader, and adopts anti-Western positions that are expressed in dangerous alliances with countries like Iran and North Korea.

Will Roberto Micheletti's new government be able to stabilize itself? It will all depend on the strength of the bond between the two major political parties, the army and the other institutions of state. It is also possible that Washington will try to forge a compromise between Zelaya and his adversaries whereby the ousted president returns to the country but renounces his intention to change the constitution and to engage in reprisals for the sole purpose of staying on until the November elections.

In any case, participants must walk a narrow line because any mistake could result in a blood bath or the start of a long period of instability and agony. And that's too high a price for one of the poorest countries in Latin America.

©2009 Firmas Press

[Edited on 7/1/2009 by dougrhon]

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 03:06 PM
quote:
Nope Doug. This is why the O.A.S. is unanimously condemning the action. This is why every nation but one - the United States - has recalled their ambassadors. There is simply no way to include a military coup in a democratic society.


It is NOT a military coup. The military has not taken power. In the United States if the President refused to leave when his term was up (as many expected Bush to do) the military would remove him. He was replaced by someone from his OWN party. There are nuances and complications to be sure. But propoganda is making this seem like the old fashioned coups of the 70's. It is not. It is an effort to preserve the rule of law in Honduras by removing a genuine threat. Why would his own party break with him and support the removal if his term was up in a couple of months and there were nothing to fear? Do we want a repeat of Venezuela? I know some do. Certainly Chavez, Castro and the Organization of American States do. I would imagine the majority of dictators in the UN do. But I don't and I don't think Hondurans do either.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 03:08 PM
In the United States if the President refused to leave when his term was up (as many expected Bush to do) the military would remove him.

Is everyone ever going to stop bring this up?

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 03:55 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Isn't it pathetic to watch certain right wingers side with military dictatorship over democracy, simply because Obama (along with every single other leader of the free world) favors democracy and is against military coups?


Except it isn't a military dictatorship in Honduras, genius. Their equivalent to our Senate and Supreme Court BOTH told Zeleya he couldn't upsurp the Honduran Constitution to extend his presidency. He broke the law. He got a free ride out of the country. Nary a shot fired.

Now we have BarryO on the same page with the Castros, Ortega and Chavez, America HATERS ALL and that doesn't appear to concern you. Why am I not surprised.


Your understanding of world politics is nil


RBK's stupidity is the only constant in an ever changing world.
So what are you offering to counter his assertions? I provide a sequence of events, a news report from a trusted source to back it up, that all seem to point to the same questions/conclusions RBK raises. Are personal opinion and attacks the only tools you got?


To quote the scumball RBK, I give as good as I get. That's all I need to do.
Otie; I gotta say, you made me laugh pretty well with this - good response!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 04:07 PM
quote:
In the United States if the President refused to leave when his term was up (as many expected Bush to do) the military would remove him.

Is everyone ever going to stop bring this up?


good point. I stand chagrined.

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 04:16 PM
A reasonable look at the situation from the Journal. It IS true that it would have been best to have him arrested and impeached but the world is simply IGNORING the fact that this action was ordered by the Supreme Court and approved by the Congress. They make it seem as if it is no different than the Chilean military coup in the 70's and that is a lie. The United States should protect Honduran independence and preserve our relationship not go off and join the mob.

The Wages of Chavismo
The Honduran coup is a reaction to Chávez's rule by the mob.

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As military "coups" go, the one this weekend in Honduras was strangely, well, democratic. The military didn't oust President Manuel Zelaya on its own but instead followed an order of the Supreme Court. It also quickly turned power over to the president of the Honduran Congress, a man from the same party as Mr. Zelaya. The legislature and legal authorities all remain intact.

We mention these not so small details because they are being overlooked as the world, including the U.S. President, denounces tiny Honduras in a way that it never has, say, Iran. President Obama is joining the U.N., Fidel Castro, Hugo Chávez and other model democrats in demanding that Mr. Zelaya be allowed to return from exile and restored to power. Maybe it's time to sort the real from the phony Latin American democrats.
[Review & Outlook] Associated Press

People against the return of ousted Honduras President Manuel Zelaya participate in a rally at the central park in Tegucigalpa, Tuesday, June 30, 2009.

The situation is messy, and we think the Hondurans would have been smarter -- and better off -- not sending Mr. Zelaya into exile at dawn. Mr. Zelaya was pressing ahead with a nonbinding referendum to demand a constitutional rewrite to let him seek a second four-year term. The attorney general and Honduran courts declared the vote illegal and warned he'd be prosecuted if he followed through. Mr. Zelaya persisted, even leading a violent mob last week to seize and distribute ballots imported from Venezuela. However, the proper constitutional route was to impeach Mr. Zelaya and then arrest him for violating the law.

Yet the events in Honduras also need to be understood in the context of Latin America's decade of chavismo. Venezuela's Hugo Chávez was democratically elected in 1998, but he has since used every lever of power, legal and extralegal, to subvert democracy. He first ordered a rewrite of the constitution that allowed his simple majority in the national assembly grant him the power to rule by decree for one year and to control the judiciary.

In 2004 he packed the Supreme Court with 32 justices from 20. Any judge who rules against his interests can be fired. He made the electoral tribunal that oversees elections his own political tool, denying opposition requests to inspect voter rolls and oversee vote counts. The once politically independent oil company now hires only Chávez allies, and independent television stations have had their licenses revoked.

Mr. Chávez has also exported this brand of one-man-one-vote-once democracy throughout the region. He's succeeded to varying degrees in Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina and Nicaragua, where his allies have stretched the law and tried to dominate the media and the courts. Mexico escaped in 2006 when Felipe Calderón linked his leftwing opponent to chavismo and barely won the presidency.

In Honduras Mr. Chávez funneled Veneuzelan oil money to help Mr. Zelaya win in 2005, and Mr. Zelaya has veered increasingly left in his four-year term. The Honduran constitution limits presidents to a single term, which is scheduled to end in January. Mr. Zelaya was using the extralegal referendum as an act of political intimidation to force the Congress to allow a rewrite of the constitution so he could retain power. The opposition had pledged to boycott the vote, which meant that Mr. Zelaya would have won by a landslide.

Such populist intimidation has worked elsewhere in the region, and Hondurans are understandably afraid that, backed by Chávez agents and money, it could lead to similar antidemocratic subversion there. In Tegucigalpa yesterday, thousands demonstrated against Mr. Zelaya, and new deputy foreign minister Marta Lorena Casco told the crowd that "Chávez consumed Venezuela, then Bolivia, after that Ecuador and Nicaragua, but in Honduras that didn't happen."

It's no accident that Mr. Chávez is now leading the charge to have Mr. Zelaya reinstated, and on Monday the Honduran traveled to a leftwing summit in Managua in one of Mr. Chávez's planes. The U.N. and Organization of American States are also threatening the tiny nation with ostracism and other punishment if it doesn't readmit him. Meanwhile, the new Honduran government is saying it will arrest Mr. Zelaya if he returns. This may be the best legal outcome, but it also runs the risk of destabilizing the country. We recall when the Clinton Administration restored Bertrand Aristide to Haiti, only to have the country descend into anarchy.

As for the Obama Administration, it seems eager to "meddle" in Honduras in a way Mr. Obama claimed was counterproductive in Iran. Yet the stolen election in Iran was a far clearer subversion of democracy than the coup in Honduras. As a candidate, Mr. Obama often scored George W. Bush's foreign policy by saying democracy requires more than an election -- a free press, for example, civil society and the rule of law rather than rule by the mob. It's a point worth recalling before Mr. Obama hands a political victory to the forces of chavismo in Latin America.
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A11





[Edited on 7/1/2009 by dougrhon]

 

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  posted on 7/1/2009 at 04:17 PM
quote:
quote:
In the United States if the President refused to leave when his term was up (as many expected Bush to do) the military would remove him.

Is everyone ever going to stop bring this up?


good point. I stand chagrined.
Why chagrined? I remember Ann as being one of the prominent posters here believing that Bush would trump up some excuse to stay in power beyond his term. Brought it up a number of times last fall.

 

____________________
Obamacare: To insure the uninsured, we first make the insured
uninsured and then make them pay more to be insured again,
so the original uninsured can be insured for free.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
(20942 all sites)
Registered: 6/15/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2009 at 04:20 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
In the United States if the President refused to leave when his term was up (as many expected Bush to do) the military would remove him.

Is everyone ever going to stop bring this up?


good point. I stand chagrined.
Why chagrined? I remember Ann as being one of the prominent posters here believing that Bush would trump up some excuse to stay in power beyond his term. Brought it up a number of times last fall.


Simply because I just told Ann to stop bringing it up then brought it up myself. That was hypocritical of me.

 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20943
(20942 all sites)
Registered: 6/15/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/1/2009 at 04:33 PM
quote:
Arrested and impeached for what? Pursuing a non-binding poll of the public about their opinions towards amending the constitution? If there was a legal case to be made against Zelaya, that would be one thing. There isn't, hence the forcible removal, rather than an impeachment. A preemptive strike against the President, based on fears that he might seek another term, despite the fact that there is no evidence that Zelaya had taken any action to actually pursue that second term. It's totally inexcusable, and with continued pressure from every nation in the world, it most likely won't stand.


You don't know anything about the situation at all. He refused to obey a Supreme Court order. Read the WSJ editorial.

 

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