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Author: Subject: how many automatic weapons ...

Sublime Peach





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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 10:53 AM
were used at ....

The Columbine shootings
The Giffords shooting
The Colorado movie shooting
The Newtown shootings

Would more security at schools really make your kids safer ???

Can you legislate crazy ??? (softball served up)


Just another grate excuse to take more of your rights away ... And they are going to do it.

" ... because you can never let a good crisis go to waste"







[Edited on 12/18/2012 by jerryphilbob]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 10:59 AM
The simple answer: NONE

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 11:03 AM
What right are you losing?


 

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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 11:11 AM
It comes in black, tan and camouflage. A pink version was once raffled by a gun store to raise money for breast cancer research

Favored by target shooters in competitions and by hunters who stalk small game and sometimes deer, its customizable features — stocks, grips, sights, barrel lengths — are endlessly discussed in online forums. It ranks high among the firearms bought for self-defense.

But the AR-15 style rifle — the most popular rifle in America, according to gun dealers — was also the weapon of choice for Adam Lanza, who the police said used one made by Bushmaster on Friday to kill 20 young children and six adults in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in a massacre that has horrified the nation.

The increasing appearance of the rifle in rampage killings — an AR-15 was used by James E. Holmes, who is accused of opening fire and killing 12 people in a movie theater in Colorado in July, police officials say, and by Jacob Roberts, who shot and killed two people and then took his own life in a shopping mall last week near Portland, Ore. — has rekindled the debate about its availability and its appeal to killers bent on mass slaughter.

It has also starkly highlighted the chasm between those who favor tighter regulations for firearms and those who believe that guns like the AR-15 are widely misunderstood and wrongly blamed for the actions of a few individuals.

Gun control advocates contend that semiautomatic weapons like the AR-15, the civilian version of the military’s M-16 and M-4, are a logical choice for anyone whose goal is to kill a lot of people in a short time because of their ability to rapidly fire multiple high-velocity rounds.

“The people we’re talking about, once they get into ‘I want to kill a lot of people,’ it’s not a leap for them to see that these guns are made and designed for war,” said Tom Diaz, a senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center. “And if you look at the industry advertising, that is a consistent theme.”

AR-15s are not the only weapons used by rampaging shooters. Semiautomatic handguns are also frequently employed. In Newtown, in addition to the Bushmaster M-4 carbine, two handguns were found at the scene, a 10-millimeter Glock and a 9-millimeter Sig Sauer, although the rifle is what Mr. Lanza used, pumping up to 11 bullets into each victim’s body, according to the medical examiner. All three guns belonged to his mother, officials said.

In Colorado, Mr. Holmes carried two Glock handguns and a shotgun, the authorities said, as well as the AR-15. A Glock and a Walther were used by Seung-Hui Cho to kill 32 people and wound 17 at Virginia Tech in 2007.

Mr. Diaz said semiautomatic weapons, including the AR-15, are increasingly being used in the killings of police officers, whose vests often provide little protection against such firearms.

Since the Newtown shooting, Mr. Diaz and others have called for a ban on high-capacity magazines, which feed 20 or 30 rounds at a fast pace. (In Colorado, officials said Mr. Holmes used a 100-round drum magazine that gun dealers say is primarily a novelty item that is likely to jam, as Mr. Holmes’s rifle apparently did.)

Some advocates have also argued for banning assault rifles, though some of them also acknowledge that the federal assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004, was inadequate and largely ineffective.

Defenders of the firearm, however, say that it is misguided to blame a gun that is used by millions of owners across the country in a responsible manner.

They argue that unlike the AR-15’s military counterparts, the civilian models are almost all semiautomatic, not fully automatic, and so should not be classified as assault rifles.

Critics describe them as high-power weapons — in addition to firing multiple rounds quickly, they have a higher muzzle velocity than traditional rifles. But defenders say that most AR-15s are chambered for .223 or 5.56 ammunition, low-caliber rounds that are less deadly than those used in many handguns. And they cite statistics indicating that unlike handguns or shotguns, rifles of any type account for only a fraction of homicides in the United States — of 12,664 murder victims last year, 323 were killed with rifles, according to the F.B.I.’s Uniform Crime Report.

“They get a lot of coverage when there’s a tragedy with one, but the number of people unlawfully killed with them is small,” said Stephen Halbrook, a constitutional lawyer in Virginia who has argued high-profile Second Amendment cases and represented the National Rifle Association.

What neither side questions is the popularity of AR-15s, which dealers say fairly leap off the shelves. Richard Taylor, the manager of the Firing-Line in Aurora, Colo., said the store each year sells several hundred of the rifles, which range from $600 to more than $2,000. At least 60 companies manufacture AR-15s or AR-15 accessories. The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite, and the name was trademarked by Colt, which bought the design, but it is widely used to describe all brands and models of the rifle.

“The distributors aren’t sitting on inventory,” said Lawrence Keane, senior vice president and general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which has its headquarters in Newtown. He added that sales of AR-15 rifles went up in 2004, after the expiration of the assault weapons ban, and again in 2008.

Gun makers do not release sales figures for specific types of firearms. But Mr. Halbrook, who compiled manufacturing estimates for a lawsuit, said that by a conservative estimate, 3.3 million to 3.5 million AR-15s were made in the United States from 1986 through the first half of this year and were not exported. A similar estimate, for manufacturing from 1986 through 2009, was summarized by a District of Columbia circuit court judge as sufficient evidence that the rifles were in “common use.”

Enthusiasts praise the AR-15 rifle as lightweight, durable, accurate and, compared with other long guns, gentle in its kick. They describe the rifle as a gadget geek’s dream — the “Barbie doll” of firearms, as one gun dealer described it — because of an array of accessories that allow it to be easily customized.

“The average person can change stocks, they can put lasers on them, they can put locks on them,” said Tony Dee, the chief gunsmith at The Gun Store in Las Vegas. “It’s just endless. It’s like building a custom car. You can just accessorize it to your own personal taste.”

Mr. Dee said his wife owned a pink, chrome-plated AR-15. “It’s blinged out pretty good.”

Although in some states, AR-15s with certain cosmetic features are banned from sale — in Connecticut, the guns cannot be sold with collapsible stocks or removable muzzle brakes — manufacturers continue to sell models without such features in those states. Buyers who want those features can easily add them by themselves: in one video on YouTube, a gun owner demonstrates how to quickly replace a fixed stock with a collapsible one without the aid of a gunsmith.

In a survey conducted by the shooting sports foundation, gun dealers reported that in 2011, 49.1 percent of the AR-15-style rifles they sold were bought for target shooting, up from 46.3 percent in 2009. Hunting accounted for 22.8 percent of sales, and personal protection 28.1 percent.

Yet even some gun sellers acknowledge that some of their customers choose AR-15s for reasons that have little to do with plinking cans or hunting prairie dogs.

The optional grenade launchers listed in the descriptions of some models have a particular appeal, one gun salesman said, even though civilians cannot buy them. (They are restricted by federal law.) He added that although he did not want to make his customers sound crazy, the different types of ammunition available for AR-15s made them attractive to people “who want to be prepared for an Armageddon-type situation.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us/lanza-used-a-popular-ar-15-style-rifle -in-newtown.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



I guess being semi-automatic makes it ok to you.........

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 11:47 AM
I say only the Police and the crooks can have them

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 12:56 PM
Most popular rifle in the US.

quote:
statistics indicating that unlike handguns or shotguns, rifles of any type account for only a fraction of homicides in the United States — of 12,664 murder victims last year, 323 were killed with rifles, according to the F.B.I.’s Uniform Crime Report.



Someone should tell piers morgan that.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 01:11 PM
quote:
I say only the Police and the crooks can have them


What can you carry in Belize?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 01:31 PM
I support a ban on all assault weapons and guns that can carry more than ten rounds at a time. As a friend of mine wrote in response to someone who said semi-automatics were good for shooting small game, if he couldn't shoot any better than to need several bullets to bring down a rabbit then he deserved to go hungry.

I'm tired of the gun lobbyists holding this country hostage to fear of 'taking our guns' just so the companies they represent can make bigger profits. How many people in here even have an assault rifle? I daresay very few. I'm not willing to give up all my guns, but I'm not willing to live in fear that some yahoo will waltz into another school and take out one of my great grandchildren, or into a church and take out any of my family. No one is wanting to disarm America....but enough is enough with the assault weapons.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 02:09 PM
quote:
I support a ban on all assault weapons and guns that can carry more than ten rounds at a time. No one is wanting to disarm America....but enough is enough with the assault weapons.


Yes, enough is enough about people using the term "assault weapons". I'll put this in all caps so everyone will get to see it.

THERE ARE NO CIVILIAN SALES OF ASSAULT WEAPONS UNLESS THEY HOLD A FFL3 LICENSE.

Go to the firearms definitions thread to find out more.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 02:11 PM
Assault Weapons:

The term was most notably used in the language of the now-expired Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994, more commonly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired in 2004. The federal assault weapons ban specifically prohibited 19 guns considered to be assault weapons. These were all semi-automatic firearms, meaning that they can eject spent shell casings and chamber the next round without additional human action, but (as opposed to automatic firearms) only one round is fired per pull of the trigger.[5] In addition to the 19 weapons specifically prohibited, the federal assault weapons ban also defined as a prohibited assault weapon any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine and at least two of the following five items: a folding or telescopic stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel (a barrel that can accommodate a flash suppressor); or a grenade launcher. The act also defined as a prohibited assault weapon semi-automatic pistols that weighed more than 50 ounces when unloaded or included a barrel shroud, and barred the manufacture of magazines capable of carrying more than 10 rounds.[5]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 02:53 PM
quote:
Assault Weapons:

The term was most notably used in the language of the now-expired Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994, more commonly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired in 2004. The federal assault weapons ban specifically prohibited 19 guns considered to be assault weapons. These were all semi-automatic firearms, meaning that they can eject spent shell casings and chamber the next round without additional human action, but (as opposed to automatic firearms) only one round is fired per pull of the trigger.[5] In addition to the 19 weapons specifically prohibited, the federal assault weapons ban also defined as a prohibited assault weapon any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine and at least two of the following five items: a folding or telescopic stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel (a barrel that can accommodate a flash suppressor); or a grenade launcher. The act also defined as a prohibited assault weapon semi-automatic pistols that weighed more than 50 ounces when unloaded or included a barrel shroud, and barred the manufacture of magazines capable of carrying more than 10 rounds.[5]



And they were told back then that the definition was used in the wrong context.
As I've posted in another thread you can take many .22 rimfire semi-auto rifles and turn them into the described "assault weapon" in the Act. It doesn't change the rate of fire, nor the power of the round.
Actually there are some air rifles that will fall under the definition of "assault weapon" as stated above.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 04:32 PM
Most of the "assault weapon" definition specifics are COSMETIC.

It looks scary.

As for the grenade launcher attachment, who the hell has a grenade launcher???

Explosives like that aren't legal for any civilians.

And a bayonet mount?

So one person might get stabbed (a bayonet is a knife) after the shooter runs out of ammo?

Without a bayonet the rifle becomes a club, maybe having a folding stock could actually prevent a killing if it collapses.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 06:20 PM
Bayonets are no longer practical because in a Close Combat Situation you would be more likely to stick your own people. The en vogue melee weapon of choice is the Tomahawk. A weapons ban will surely fuel the Black Market and empower the Mexican Cartels who will then be making large profits importing fully automatic AKs into the States.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 08:35 PM
quote:
Bayonets are no longer practical because in a Close Combat Situation you would be more likely to stick your own people. The en vogue melee weapon of choice is the Tomahawk. A weapons ban will surely fuel the Black Market and empower the Mexican Cartels who will then be making large profits importing fully automatic AKs into the States.




Now that is a zombie killer.

 

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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 08:37 PM
quote:
quote:
Bayonets are no longer practical because in a Close Combat Situation you would be more likely to stick your own people. The en vogue melee weapon of choice is the Tomahawk. A weapons ban will surely fuel the Black Market and empower the Mexican Cartels who will then be making large profits importing fully automatic AKs into the States.




Now that is a zombie killer.


As long as he doesn't bite you while you're swinging it.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/18/2012 at 09:12 PM
Our youngest grandson (15) throws tomahawks for sport. I have no problem with them as long as one doesn't end up in my back!

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 06:27 AM
quote:
Can you legislate crazy ???


Bingo!...This kid Lanza was a certified nutcase. Who else would kill children?

quote:
Just another grate excuse to take more of your rights away ... And they are going to do it.


Somewhat cynical, but in theory.....I agree. Except, in this case "they" are going to be the people who believe a Federal Gubmint "ban" will do anything to curb this problem. In Lanza's case, I first blame the parents for failing to teach this child the value of life. Secondly....I blame the Lanza kid...goes directly to personal responsibility. Deceased or not, he is guilty. I truly believe someone this sick would have commuted this heinous crime with home made poisonous gas if he could not have found a gun.

I do not believe for one minute that the people of this nation will agree to an alteration of the Constitution.

 

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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 08:37 AM
quote:
quote:
Can you legislate crazy ???


Bingo!...This kid Lanza was a certified nutcase. Who else would kill children?

quote:
Just another grate excuse to take more of your rights away ... And they are going to do it.


Somewhat cynical, but in theory.....I agree. Except, in this case "they" are going to be the people who believe a Federal Gubmint "ban" will do anything to curb this problem. In Lanza's case, I first blame the parents for failing to teach this child the value of life. Secondly....I blame the Lanza kid...goes directly to personal responsibility. Deceased or not, he is guilty. I truly believe someone this sick would have commuted this heinous crime with home made poisonous gas if he could not have found a gun.

I do not believe for one minute that the people of this nation will agree to an alteration of the Constitution.


I think it's important to remember that "Regulating," which is what I assume gun control laws are considered, is in the same section of the Constitution that guarantees the right to bear arms. For some reason people tend to forget this fact. Therefore, changing or reforming gun control laws is not unconstitutional.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 09:39 AM
quote:
I say only the Police and the crooks can have them


You want Sting to carry?

 

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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 03:57 PM
there is So much lack of Knowledge on the subject of firearms that it warrants a thread of its own but lacking that there is no such thing as a assault weapon that is the media shoved down your throw for 40 years , look it is simple the AR15 or M16 (military version) has gotten a media bad rap since Vietnam but the truth is each and every weapon in anyone's house today is based on a military weapon from some era of our history.

1600's thru 1700's it was flintlock rifles and muskets or smoothbores next it was percussion rifles and muskets and smoothbores, then single shot rifles with brass casings ,then lever action rifles yep the good old 30 30, then bolt action rifles and semi auto rifles introduced in world war 1 M1 garands M1 carbines, Bar's(browning automatic rifle) and the same with pistols, from each type of military weapon came the civilian version, so if they had semi auto and auto weapons in WW1 when did they become assault weapons? what makes them one?
A big scary black stock? a pistol grip? a flash hider? a high capacity magazine? NO! all these things were on weapons long before the ak's and ar15's of the world the difference MEDIA !!!
Come on people have a clue cars kill way more people when you add alcohol it is even worse and it happens each and every day yet no one is calling for a ban of these mass killers tobacco nope no one wants it banned how about prescription drugs? nope . No it is always the guns fault people that think ;like that to me are cowards they do not want to face the truth that we as a society have many many issues we need to address. But until we do we are doomed to keep passing the blame for everything to something else and accomplishing nothing!

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 04:00 PM
Cars are not built to kill people.... the constant parroting of 'we should ban cars' is the stupidest argument I have ever heard - and it has been used a lot over the last week ... shows how much influence the NRA has on some people........

 

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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 04:29 PM
quote:
shows how much influence the NRA has on some people........


On some people??? They control it all. The NRA has about 4 million members, and I believe the vast majority of them are law abiding, good folks. The problem is that they dictate what can and can't done regarding gun laws for the rest of us. It is time to say enough is enough. I have no problem with a person who wants to keep a 9MM in his/her home for protection. I have no problem with someone who owns a rifle or shotgun for hunting. I DO have a problem with a weapon like the one used in Colorado and CT that can squeeze out 45 shots in 60 seconds. Come one...no one can defend John Q Public having this kind of firepower. No one who has any common sense. This was designed for one thing and one thing only. Mass destruction in a small amount of time. Leave that kind of thing to the military, the police, and the mafia.

You bring up the car ban thing again. How about this...a bartender or a private individual is responsible if they serve a person alcohol and that person then goes out and kills someone while dirving under the influence, correct? How about this then, a gun dealer sells a semi automatic weapon that is used in a killing (mass or otherwise), then they bear some of the legal responsbility. I bet they would think twice about selling one, just like a bartender or the host of a party thinks twice before serving up that next drink.


 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 04:29 PM
quote:
Cars are not built to kill people.... the constant parroting of 'we should ban cars' is the stupidest argument I have ever heard - and it has been used a lot over the last week ... shows how much influence the NRA has on some people........


Show me the difference between a person killed by a car, cancer from Tobacco,serosis of the liver,from alcohol, a big rock to the head,or a overdose from prescription drugs dead is dead! what now you want to quibble about the manner in which people die? a loved one killed by any of those means is a loved one gone forever to me a drunk driver is just as deadly as any gun ever made. have we solved the drunk driving problem in this country by making more laws against it ? NO!

 

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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 04:42 PM
quote:
quote:
Show me the difference between a person killed by a car, cancer from Tobacco,serosis of the liver,from alcohol, a big rock to the head,or a overdose from prescription drugs dead is dead! what now you want to quibble about the manner in which people die?


Yes, I would like to quibble...

Killed by Car - Most likely an accident, even if alcohol is involved.
Cancer from Tobacco - Self inflicted.
Scerosis of the liver from Alcohol - Self Inflicted.
A Big Rock to the head - I stand a fighting chance if I see the guy coming at me.
Overdose from presription drugs - self infllicted.
20 children / 6 teachers shot with a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle - Not an accident. No chance even though they saw him coming. Not self inflicted.

Yes, I quibble.

[Edited on 12/19/2012 by tiderule1]

[Edited on 12/19/2012 by tiderule1]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 12/19/2012 at 05:57 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Show me the difference between a person killed by a car, cancer from Tobacco,serosis of the liver,from alcohol, a big rock to the head,or a overdose from prescription drugs dead is dead! what now you want to quibble about the manner in which people die?


Yes, I would like to quibble...

Killed by Car - Most likely an accident, even if alcohol is involved.
Cancer from Tobacco - Self inflicted.
Scerosis of the liver from Alcohol - Self Inflicted.
A Big Rock to the head - I stand a fighting chance if I see the guy coming at me.
Overdose from presription drugs - self infllicted.
20 children / 6 teachers shot with a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle - Not an accident. No chance even though they saw him coming. Not self inflicted.

Yes, I quibble.

[Edited on 12/19/2012 by tiderule1]

[Edited on 12/19/2012 by tiderule1]


So the SOB who sits and drinks in his house all day because his wife is leaving him for being a drunk decides he is going to go get more beer and in that process kills a family of four that is a accident? to whom the victim or the drunk? no that is not a accident it is a deliberate lack of caring about anyone but himself and taking innocent people with him ,and it kills more people than guns.

Cancer from Tobacco self inflicted ok but the president could make that his priority and take it away from us just like guns protect us from ourselves right ? that is the thinking right? well Cancer from Tobacco kills more people each year than guns, ditto for alcohol....

Big rock i agree you got a chance if you see him coming but he is a criminal and has a gun he does not care about laws hence he is a criminal I think you are in trouble and a easy victim.

prescription drugs again the same as Tobacco and alcohol

20 innocent kids 6 teachers one mother and one son all victims of if not self inflicted who pulled the trigger? remember he killed himself... please do not get me wrong this is a tragedy so horrible it makes me sad beyond belief that anyone could do this to a child but was this guy in his right mind? i think not was he on drugs? prescription or not I do not know but I know it was not a guns fault no more than all the folks who lost their lives by airplane on Americas darkest day was it the planes fault? what about all the folks we lost when Timothy Mcvie blew them up with Fertilizer and diesel fuel was it the fertilizers fault? no in all cases it was sick people and that is where we need to focus our efforts 97% of all gun owners are responsible caring people who who never do anything like this should they be penalized for the action of the other 3 percent?

for people who hunt with these weapons I get it because i do as well, they do not rust, there is no wood to scratch or break, they are easy to carry and they are dependable in a hunting situation, do I carry 30 rounds in a clip when hunting NO i carry 5 because that is the law here but I also use this gun as a home defense gun and i sure would not want to go up against someone with a 30 round clip if my home was invaded when i have but 5 would you?

we all have our choices to make no one has to have a gun but in this great country we do have a choice are we so willing to give up what the founding fathers of this country fought and died for or do we need to address the main problem which is US we need to fix us and help those who have problems our society is all about everyone for themselves we need to go back to caring for each other and really care about the guy next door...

 
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