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Author: Subject: Hillary announces "exploratory committee" to run for President

Zen Peach





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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 09:18 AM
Im so sorry I was wrong in this. I was certain that Hilllary would have enough sense (her advisors too) not to run for President. She is beyond polarizing though not through her own actions, but by those that hate the name "Clinton" and the issues will be lost in a sea of Republicans wailing like banshees. If you thought the last presidential election was ugly, this one will take the cake. Democrats, please dont choose Hillary. Almost anyone would be better, even a Republican.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

[Edited on 1/20/2007 by SquatchTexas]

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 04:22 PM
So which candidate, that's announced so far, would you back?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 04:43 PM
ST, ego does sometimes get in the way of common sense.

 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 04:57 PM
they'll have to raise taxes just to keep in in those cheesy Walmart pant suits
 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 04:59 PM
ooops I mean Hillary in those cheesy Walmart pant suits, sorry, BTW did you know Obamas real last name is Obamawitz?
 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 05:13 PM
Some people are humorless, me thinks you're one of them. I bet your favorite color is khaki and you love to watch paint dry.
 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 05:15 PM
"humor" me with specifics
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 05:27 PM
My brothe who is a Minnesota Democrat said to me years ago that Hillary will not fly anywhere in the midwest. But Dems know they only have to win the coasts and one or two other states and its over.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 05:45 PM
quote:
So which candidate, that's announced so far, would you back?


None yet, Jerry. Im also waiting to see which Republicans are running before picking a horse.

 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 08:00 PM
quote:
quote:
So which candidate, that's announced so far, would you back?


None yet, Jerry. Im also waiting to see which Republicans are running before picking a horse.


No thoughts on Edwards, Gore, Biden, Lincoln, Easley, Blagojevich, or even Kerry?

Think if Giuliani, Powell, or Elizabeth Dole ran you could vote for them?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 08:30 PM
quote:
No thoughts on Edwards, Gore,


I would have to hear more of their positions later on..way too early.

quote:
Biden, Lincoln, Easley, Blagojevich,


Same as above.

quote:
or even Kerry?


Too indecisive, slow to respond. I dont think I would ever vote for him again.

quote:
Think if Giuliani,


Not even.

quote:
Powell,


Youre kidding right? One of the main guys that got us into the Iraq mess? He pissed away any credibility he had a long time ago. He was the only one in the Bush administration at the time that I thought had anything even remotely resembling integrity. Boy, I was sure wrong there.

quote:
or Elizabeth Dole ran you could vote for them?


Dont know enough about her positions right now and I would want to wait until much later down the road. For me, its a bit early to pick candidates.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 09:03 PM
quote:
ooops I mean Hillary in those cheesy Walmart pant suits, sorry, BTW did you know Obamas real last name is Obamawitz?


Maybe we'd find it funny if we knew whether it was a racist slur against Blacks or against Jews. I guess your humor was just too subtle for us to pick up.

[Edited on 1/21/2007 by nitelite51]

 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 09:09 PM
quote:
She is beyond polarizing though not through her own actions, but by those that hate the name "Clinton"


So who was responsible for the Travelgate debacle? The Clinton Health Care Task Force? Craig Livingston? The 'missing' files? And on & on & on.....

Heck, she voted for military action in Iraq both times. I still wonder if Sandy Burgler stole those documents under Hillary's orders or Bill's.

She has a lot of her own actions to be accountable for that are not of her husbands doing. Some just want to paint any criticism of her as rantings of the opposition's supposed obsessing over her husband. I think there is more polarization because of her than the family she married into. Besides, when she is anointed President she'll change her name back to Rodham.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 10:49 PM
quote:
So who was responsible for the Travelgate debacle?


Oh the scandal! You might want to read a bit before you continue...

quote:
The White House travel office controversy of 1993, often referred to as Travelgate [1], began on May 19, 1993, when several longtime employees of the White House Travel Office were fired. A whistleblower's letter, written during the previous administration, triggered an FBI investigation which revealed evidence of financial malfeasance. Office director Billy Dale was charged with embezzlement. In a letter to federal prosecutors he offered to plead guilty, return $69,000, and to serve a short jail sentence. The Department of Justice refused the offer and Dale was later found not guilty at trial. Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr also investigated the firings and could find no evidence of wrongdoing on the Clintons' part. [Howard Kurtz, The Washington Post, 11/23/98]

The White House Travel Office is in the residential section of the White House, and as such, staffers serve strictly at the pleasure of the president. Historically, a change of administrations usually resulted in a brand new Travel Office staff. Despite the established presidential privilege of replacing staffers at will, Congressional Republicans alleged that friends of President Bill Clinton, including his cousin Catherine Cornelius, had engineered the firings in order to get the business for themselves.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelgate

quote:
On May 19, 1993, several long-time employees of the White House Travel Office were fired for alleged incompetence or illegal activities. Accusations were made that Hillary Clinton was involved in the firings and that they were unjustified and were done in order to give the business to friends of the Clintons; she denied any role in the firings. Supporters said that the employees in question were officially political appointees (although they had served under Presidents of both parties) who served "at the President's pleasure" and could be fired or reassigned at any time. The affair became known as "Travelgate". On June 23, 2000, Whitewater Independent Counsel Robert Ray stated in a final report that while there was substantial evidence that she was involved in the firings, it could not be proved that she had deliberately lied about the matter, and so no charges would be brought.


quote:
The Clinton Health Care Task Force?


I have absolutely no problem with having a national health care system. Why do you?

quote:
Craig Livingston?


In June 1996, White House security head Craig Livingstone improperly asked for and received several hundred FBI background files, including ones on White House personnel from former Republican administrations. Accusations were made that Hillary Clinton had requested these files and that she had recommended hiring the supposedly unqualified Livingstone; she denied these charges. The affair became known as "Filegate". [35] [36] On July 28, 2000, Whitewater Independent Counsel Robert Ray stated in a final report that there was no substantial or credible evidence that Hillary Clinton had any role or showed any misconduct in the matter. [37]

quote:
The 'missing' files? And on & on & on.....


The White House personnel file controversy of June 1996, often referred to in the press as Filegate, [1] [2] arose around improper access to FBI security-clearance documents. Craig Livingstone, head of White House security, improperly requested, and received from the FBI, personnel files without asking permission of the subject individuals. Estimates range from 350 to 900 unauthorized file disclosures. The incident caused a firestorm of criticism because many of the files covered White House employees from previous Republican administrations.

In March 2000, Independent Counsel Robert Ray determined that there was no credible evidence of any criminal activity. Ray's report further stated "there was no substantial and credible evidence that any senior White House official, or First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, was involved" in seeking the files.

Judicial Watch, a conservative watchdog group, engaged in long-running litigation over the white house personnel file controversy.

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Looks like you have been listening to Rush and not doing your homework as usual.

quote:
Heck, she voted for military action in Iraq both times. I still wonder if Sandy Burgler stole those documents under Hillary's orders or Bill's.


Theres always room for another conspiracy from you nuts. Maybe you should start a website?

quote:
She has a lot of her own actions to be accountable for that are not of her husbands doing.


Like what? Please be specific.

quote:
Some just want to paint any criticism of her as rantings of the opposition's supposed obsessing over her husband.


"Supposed"? Are you crazy or just blind? Were you alive in the 90's? You dont do even basic research on a topic before spouting your crap so why am I not surprised that you dont know the extent to which Clinton is hated. Obsessed is putting it mildly when referring to Conservatives relationship with Clinton.

[Edited on 1/21/2007 by SquatchTexas]

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 11:00 PM
quote:

"Supposed"? Are you crazy or just blind? Were you alive in the 90's? You dont do even basic research on a topic before spouting your crap so why am I not surprised that you dont know the extent to which Clinton is hated. Obsessed is putting it mildly when referring to Conservatives relationship with Clinton.


Maybe I'm both crazy & blind, but I am not that 'obsessed' w/ the Clintons and I certainly don't hate them. I know quite a few conservative voters, and they don't hate the Clintons either. Conservatives that I know don't like the Clintons because of their stances on the issues. You must be thinking of the Pat Bucanon wing, that you are now agreeing with.

I find it quite a hoot that you rant on about obsessive hatred when you, yourself seem to do it so well against your boogieman, Bush.

Oh, and BTW, glad to see that all of sudden you're agreeing with Ken Starr.

 

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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 11:07 PM
quote:
Maybe I'm both crazy & blind, but I am not that 'obsessed' w/ the Clintons and I certainly don't hate them. I know quite a few conservative voters, and they don't hate the Clintons either. Conservatives that I know don't like the Clintons because of their stances on the issues. You must be thinking of the Pat Bucanon wing, that you are now agreeing with.


Funny, you made a whole post of almost nothing but innuendo and failed smear attempts. I guess you arent one of those conservatives that has a problem with their stances on the issues.

quote:
I find it quite a hoot that you rant on about obsessive hatred when you, yourself seem to do it so well against your boogieman, Bush.


Rant? You made a half-thought out statement and I corrected you. Bush and his administration has done quite a bit to run our nation (and others) into the ground. The fact that you cant even bring yourself to admit it shows how disconnected from reality you are. Hell, even Republicans are turning on him.

quote:
Oh, and BTW, glad to see that all of sudden you're agreeing with Ken Starr.


How am I agreeing with Ken Starr? (cant wait to see the leap of logic you come up with)

EDIT: If you are referring to my previous post where I quoted: Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr also investigated the firings and could find no evidence of wrongdoing on the Clintons' part. as being "agreement with Ken Starr", I would suggest that you dont understand what my point was. What you missed was the fact that your accusation that Hillary Clinton did something wrong or illegal doesnt hold water since she was not charged with anything after a special investigation failed to find any supporting evidence.

[Edited on 1/21/2007 by SquatchTexas]

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/20/2007 at 11:43 PM
quote:
What you missed was the fact that your accusation that Hillary Clinton did something wrong or illegal doesnt hold water since she was not charged with anything after a special investigation failed to find any supporting evidence.



Take a deep breath & count to 10 SqTx. I didn't accuse your Saint Hillary of anything, I mearly mentioned the scandals she was involved in. Your panties do get tight whenever someone mentions something contrary to the purity of the democrats.

Your original statement was that St. Hillary was 'pure' except for her hubby. (I'm paraphrasing here; get a grip,) I pointed out 'scandals' (as defined by the MSM) that she was involved in. I never mentioned 'guilt'. You want to change your argument, fine.

 

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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 02:09 AM
quote:
Im so sorry I was wrong in this. I was certain that Hilllary would have enough sense (her advisors too) not to run for President.

Holy crap, TWO people thought she wasn't going to run? I talked to somebody else online who made the same prediction and I was sure he was the only one.

Hillary has name recognition, a network of aides, and plenty of money. Why the hell wouldn't she run? What kind of advisor would tell her not to? Some cowardly dope who believes this "all Republicans hate her" nonsense? I don't think anybody who believes that would stay employed. Anyway, I bet a big chunk of those Republicans, think Bill Clinton better with each passing day of Bush's disaster.

All that said, I won't vote for her in the primaries, and I don't think she'll win. But I can't understand why people think she wouldn't or shouldn't run. She's got an easier road to victory than Bill did in '92, and I think the more candidates get out there, the better.

 

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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 03:53 AM

I submitted this to Hillary's Web page, but I doubt it will get approved and posted:

Hey now -

I am thrilled to see Hillary running for President -- it's an historic moment! And I do not doubt that she would be a fine leader and adminstrator as POTUS. If she wins the Democratic nomination, I will happily vote for her.

Unfortunately I cannot support her candidacy in the primary. Her craven vote to allow the Bush administration to go to war in Iraq is an albatross around Hillary's neck. Since that vote, she has equivocated and fence-straddled the issue -- poll driven all the way.

John Edwards has publicly apologized for his Iraq war vote. Until Hillary does likewise, she is an also ran in my book.

Be well!




[Edited on 1/21/2007 by Hophead]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 08:24 AM
quote:
Take a deep breath & count to 10 SqTx. I didn't accuse your Saint Hillary of anything, I mearly mentioned the scandals she was involved in.


Wow, youre pretty thick. Ok, first off, I dont like Hillary (this thread would be a clue to most thinking people). I dont support many of her views. I agree with her ideas on national healthcare and that we should be getting out of Iraq. Thats a view held by many people, not just her. Second, the "scandals" you seem to be taken with bore no fruit to support your implication that she did something wrong, but yet, you saw fit to bring them up. It would be like me bringing up Bush's cocaine use. Lots of speculation, but not much actual proof, so by your methodology, he is one big ass coke-head.

quote:
Your panties do get tight whenever someone mentions something contrary to the purity of the democrats.


I get a little worked up over people like you lying and distorting things, but beyond that, not really. You think others are too stupid or lazy to check your work. Youre getting as bad as Derek in that regard.

quote:
Your original statement was that St. Hillary was 'pure' except for her hubby. (I'm paraphrasing here; get a grip,)


If youre "paraphrasing", then why are you quoting me as saying 'pure'? I dont think that means what you think it means. We are in the very thread here so why not just quote me accurately? She is beyond polarizing though not through her own actions, but by those that hate the name "Clinton" and the issues will be lost in a sea of Republicans wailing like banshees.

quote:
I pointed out 'scandals' (as defined by the MSM) that she was involved in. I never mentioned 'guilt'. You want to change your argument, fine.


Im not changing arguments, CB. Talk about getting a grip. You brought up scandals as if they were true or had found something when I know the fact of the matter was that they were much ado about nothing. You attempted to paint her "scandals" as proof of her not being a "saint" when in fact, no wrongdoing was found. Why were you perpetuating such a deceitful position when you surely knew the same thing I did? Tell me you would give Bush/Republican scandals the same weight without evidence as we are apparently supposed to give to Hillary scandals that have no evidence.

Hillarys issues are greatly embellished and exaggerated by people like you to smear her, her ideas etc. and those of others you deem a threat to the conservative cause. You dont care what the facts are nor that no evidence of wrongdoing was found. Your only mission is to muddy the waters with innuendo, accusation and the idea of wrongdoing enough to taint someones attempt at running for office. You and people like you, are whats wrong with a lot of the politics today.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 08:33 AM
quote:
quote:
Im so sorry I was wrong in this. I was certain that Hilllary would have enough sense (her advisors too) not to run for President.

Holy crap, TWO people thought she wasn't going to run? I talked to somebody else online who made the same prediction and I was sure he was the only one.

Hillary has name recognition, a network of aides, and plenty of money. Why the hell wouldn't she run? What kind of advisor would tell her not to? Some cowardly dope who believes this "all Republicans hate her" nonsense? I don't think anybody who believes that would stay employed. Anyway, I bet a big chunk of those Republicans, think Bill Clinton better with each passing day of Bush's disaster.

All that said, I won't vote for her in the primaries, and I don't think she'll win. But I can't understand why people think she wouldn't or shouldn't run. She's got an easier road to victory than Bill did in '92, and I think the more candidates get out there, the better.


Im really surprised she thinks she has a chance. Name recognition aside, all people think of when she is mentioned is all the petty scandals peddled by the conservatives over the years. We are going to get a rehash of each one of them for the next two years now. Im sure though that little will be said about the outcomes of those investigations. My hope rests on the Dems to pick someone else. I agree that the more people running the better, but you and I both know that its going to come down to two in the end. I hope one of them is worth backing.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 08:48 AM
quote:

I submitted this to Hillary's Web page, but I doubt it will get approved and posted:

Hey now -

I am thrilled to see Hillary running for President -- it's an historic moment! And I do not doubt that she would be a fine leader and adminstrator as POTUS. If she wins the Democratic nomination, I will happily vote for her.

Unfortunately I cannot support her candidacy in the primary. Her craven vote to allow the Bush administration to go to war in Iraq is an albatross around Hillary's neck. Since that vote, she has equivocated and fence-straddled the issue -- poll driven all the way.

John Edwards has publicly apologized for his Iraq war vote. Until Hillary does likewise, she is an also ran in my book.

Be well!




[Edited on 1/21/2007 by Hophead]


She didnt apologize for her vote, which I can agree with, but she did express disappointment with how Bush handled that power. And, as Ive mentioned before, Im not blaming those that voted to give Bush the power to wage war. They were duped along with the rest of the people that had faith in him not to lie.

From the Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on S.J. Res. 45, A Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go way with delay will oppose any UN resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.

This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction.


Later she says this:

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 12:51 PM
quote:
Hillarys issues are greatly embellished and exaggerated by people like you to smear her, her ideas etc. and those of others you deem a threat to the conservative cause. You dont care what the facts are nor that no evidence of wrongdoing was found. Your only mission is to muddy the waters with innuendo, accusation and the idea of wrongdoing enough to taint someones attempt at running for office. You and people like you, are whats wrong with a lot of the politics today.




You have got to be kidding me. Too good to be true. That post triples as the funniest post of the year, the post pathetic post of the year, and biggest bullsh*t post of the year, all wrapped up in one. A stunning delusion of grandeur based on a total lack of intellect. Liberalism at its best. Congrats - that was awesome.

 

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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 01:50 PM
quote:
You have got to be kidding me. Too good to be true. That post triples as the funniest post of the year, the post pathetic post of the year, and biggest bullsh*t post of the year, all wrapped up in one. A stunning delusion of grandeur based on a total lack of intellect. Liberalism at its best. Congrats - that was awesome.


Gee, why am I not surprised that one of the biggest practiioners of what we are discussing is here telling us how it just aint true? You would be fun if you werent so predictable.

Lying, distorting, misrepresenting..yep, all hallmarks of good politics according to people like Derek. Folks see what you do, Derek. They see the comments you make, the innuendo, the accusations, the unsupported implied wrongdoing etc. If it isnt another poster you disagree with, its the conservative political target du jour that gets the commentary. Deny it all you want, twist it into something else (as usual) or try to distort the message. Everyone knows youre full of it except you.

 

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Missing- 245 spines. If found, please send one to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and the rest to the Capitol building care of the Democratic Party.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 1/21/2007 at 02:15 PM
I have absolutely no problem with having a national health care system. Why do you?

Simply because I want less government in my life. While the healthcare system as we know it now is broken, I can't imagine it getting better because the fools in Washington are gonna set up a bigger mess than we already have.

 

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