Thread: Allman Brother Bio

cleaneduphippy - 1/20/2003 at 12:42 PM

Hey Butch,

Just curious, if someone was to write a bio of the Allman Brothers Band, who would you want it to be? Most of us know that Scott Freeman, drop the ball when he wrote his book, and besides the story of the band would certainly need updating from when that book came out. Personally, I think someone such as Greil Marcus or Peter Guralnick could do a very good job on it. I also think you yourself would do a good job of writing it, and you certainly wouldn't be first drummer to write about his band. Of course, I can imagine you finding the time might be a bit of a problem.


Stephen - 1/20/2003 at 03:53 PM

It's been discussed enough so that I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on this -- I know Butch didn't care too well for it -- but I'll still go to bat for someone who worked hard, put his heart & soul into a project, was obviously a big fan of the band and whose work reflected a lot of research. It's a well-written, dispassionate read.
Unless they've been in a writer's shoes before, I don't think people should criticize until they step up to the plate and put their criticisms into action. Besides, what else is there to compare it to? It's the only kid on the block, so to speak.
I don't see where another biography of the band would read much differently -- unless it were indeed written by Butch or someone in the band. That'd be awesome.


cleaneduphippy - 1/20/2003 at 04:59 PM

Hey Stephen,

Have to disagree with you about where you "don't see where another boigraphy of the band would read much differently". First of all, Scott Freeman, is basically a journalist, he knows how to write "the facts" but sometime "the facts" just don't tell the story. Greill Marcus and Peter Guralnick are serious writers who speciallize in music and the people who make it (specifically southern music and musicians). The Allman Brothers Band story deserves to be told. Just the simple fact alone that an intergrated band living down south in the late 60's/ early 70's and making it's own orginal music and succeeding is a story in and of itself. I lived in the south (North Carolina) during the 60's and 70's and believe me the Allman Brothers Band definely had an effect on southern culture. I think the Allman Brothers Band deserve to have their story told, and by someone who understand what was going on in America and down South at the time, and can place the band within that context and tell how they were affected and how they and their music affected that culture.


Butch Trucks - 1/21/2003 at 07:42 PM

The Scott Freeman book is a VERY long newspaper article. I am not a writer of books but I am an avid and well read reader of books and I can tell a novel from a biography from a short story and from just a regurgitation of facts: newspaper article. The story of the Allman Brothers Band is so incredibly rife with possibilities for an epic from so many different angles (the subculture that existed in America or the south in the '60's and '70's, the racial issues, and more than anything the MUSIC) that having the Freeman book as the sole representation of that story is very depressing. This is my major disappointment with the Freeman work. It tells a story that anyone with the time can go find out for themselves. It gives no special insights into that story and I know (I was there) there were many. We have been trying for quite some time now to get a certain person (I will not give his name) to write a screenplay for a major motion picture and to write the book along with it. He is the smartest person I have ever known and would write a "novel", probably an epic that would deal with most, if not all, of these issues and many that I wouldn't even be aware of. This is what makes a great writer and though, as I mentioned earlier, I have never written one myself, I am able to tell a good one from a bad one and, as I also mentioned, a novel from a peice of reportage. He swears that he is going to do it. I hope so. For Duane's legacy, if nothing else, this needs to happen.


OldDirtRoad - 1/21/2003 at 07:52 PM



YES the whole big picture would be nice.....not just the bad or controversial...but all the good too...and i'm sure there was a lot of GOOD too....

Sounds good and a Movie would be great......

Robert Englund as Butch.......Dennis Hopper as Dickey......James Keach as Duane....
Keifer Sutherland as Gregg......Johnny Depp as Berry..and Samuel L. Jackson as Jamoie.

just messing with ya.....

[Edited on 1/21/2003 by OldDirtRoad]


Pam - 1/21/2003 at 08:12 PM

Butch I will be hoping right along with you. This definitely should be done. That was a good point about a big newspaper article. Lot of info in there but most of it public record stuff.
To the certain un-named person-Please concider getting this going. It would mean so much to us all. We are constantly looking for new information on the band. Butch said you swear you will do it and I have all faith in you that you will. All things are possible with faith and hope and love.


bumba - 1/21/2003 at 08:12 PM

Butch, I think you are exactly right about capturing the whole scope of what created ABB. So few people, including musicians of the present day- forget to understand the historcal, economical, societal, etc. context in which musical events were created and how they shaped the individuals who created the music that we still listen to fervently. I read the Freeman book too and got much of the same impression. You can only get the real truth and the real story when you have the full involvement of the people involved and a good understanding of the times in which the events took place. For your sake and the rest of the band's. I hope that some day that will happen.


cleaneduphippy - 1/22/2003 at 12:46 PM

Butch, thank you for your responds and I certainly hope your friend writes thats novel, as I'm sure it'll be an excellent one. Best of luck on the new CD and this year tour, and certainly hope to catch y'all on the road.


Stephen - 1/22/2003 at 03:53 PM

This is real exciting news -- thanks for posting it Butch -- it sounds like what cleaneduphippy was mentioning in terms of the band's story, was just along the line of the band's thinking too -- something that develops the story beyond what is told in Midnight Riders. With a writer of the band's choice, and its cooperation too, it's a read that all of us couldn't wait to check out.
(sigh) without trying to be a bad person or anything, I still say that Scott Freeman did an exemplary job in telling the complicated, multifaceted story of the Allman Brothers Band. If it does read like a newspaper article, it's because he's a trained jounalist who by the way the book read, made accuracy his top priority in the project. Not all the facts are correct, but it seemed as though he was 99 percent on with his facts -- the fact that it also read as though written by a big fan of the band made the few glitches relatively palatable. The history of the ABB is wide-ranging indeed, and the more that can be written and published about the band, the better us fans like it.
Thanks again, and all the best brother -- am looking forward tremendously to the new album and this year's shows.


fschiazza - 1/22/2003 at 04:20 PM

Butch, you have no idea how badly I'd love for this to happen... With the new album, the DVD (possibly), and all the archive stuff pending, this is one of the most exciting periods to be an Allmans fan!

About this book idea, if you want it done so badly, why can't you just get it done? I'm sure whoever this person is would love to be a part of it (who wouldn't?), so why not just get the ball rolling on it all. I'm sure you know, but there are a whole bunch of us who are dying for all this!


Jonesy - 1/22/2003 at 06:41 PM

It doesn't sound like it is a matter of "just getting the ball rolling"- sounds like the band is waiting on this individual to give the thumbs up to do it...


Marley - 1/23/2003 at 07:39 AM

I hope this comes to fruition as soon as possible. I've dreamed about an ABB movie and novel for so long; it's very encouraging for me to know Butch cares about this, too.


oldfan - 1/23/2003 at 11:51 AM

Thanks for posting on this topic, Butch. I liked the Freeman book if for no other reason than it's reliance on interviews with band members, including you, at the risk of sounding like a brownie. Most of us had not read all these articles or interviews from different times and publications, so getting the material under one cover was good. Before it came out, the only other one I'd ever seen was a fanzine-type thing.

I wish each of you would publish his recollections, maybe in the form of an oral history, with a good interviewer who would push a little without being a pita. Jaimno's recollections posted on this page have been fun. Chances are that no "historical novel" or even straight history could please all four original members perfectly. In any case, I hope that, by any means, someone tries again to get the story out.


RobJohnson - 1/23/2003 at 04:15 PM

Anybody with sufficient intelligence, research ability, and verbal skill can can tell the "factual" story of any given subject. Capturing the SPIRIT of a subject in words, especially a subject as rich and complex as the history of the Allman Brothers, is far more difficult.

I wish our unnamed "mystery author" good luck with the project. The story of the ABB has enough drama, memorable characters, and interesting societal context to make a great book and/or movie. Just imagine the following scenes:


The famous "first jam" with Duane saying "Anybody who doesn't want to be in this band is going to have to fight their way out" or words to that effect
The first time the band played Piedmont Park
The Fillmore East recordings
Duane and Berry's tragic deaths, and the reaction to them
Watkins Glen
The Scooter Herring trial
The Seven Turns sessions
Warren and Allen leave
Dickey's dismissal
Allen's tragic death
Warren returns


Butch is right, there is enough material for an epic there!


Marley - 1/23/2003 at 08:14 PM

LoL,
As someone who's put a lot of thought into this, I don't know how all of that fits into one movie...I think after the first one is a big hit, you do a sequel featuring Warren and Allen. That's the only way to give them the props they deserve for 8 years of playing anyway.
Duane's presence, talent and leadership demand screen time, that way you really feel the loss, I think.

Other scenes I think you'd need-
*Closing night at the Fillmore. 100% necessary to me.
*The band's first time (times?) in Rose Hill
*I think the way Freeman describes Gregg and Kim Payne writing Midnight Rider would look great (and be pretty funny)
*For that matter, the writing of Jessica and Whipping Post might be cool
*I'd like to see a scene depicting the band's special relationship with the H&H
*The Layla sessions (I think the Miami show where Clapton turned up and Duane and Dickey froze would be PRICELESS)
*Remember that picture of Duane and Dickey playing slide together? I want to see the scene behind it.

Also...not how I wrote it, but it might also be fun to see-
*Gregg's dash from California to Macon, and that first band rehearsal he saw (BIG scene where he's nervous, doesn't think he can sing well enough, and Duane talks him into it...shows what a leader Duane was while also depicting their relationship)
*Some scenes with the roadies; on the road would be the best place, I think- like that really long drive across country early on...
*Corkball
*A scene with Phil Walden calling for a band meeting and asking the roadies to leave...then Duane tells him they're a part of the band
*If there's a scene from the 1973 tour (I'm sure there would be), having a cameo from a 15-year-old Cameron Crowe as a nod to Almost Famous would be cute
*Rob mentioned Duane and Berry...I think Gregg playing Melissa for Duane at the funeral would be very powerful
*A scene chronicled by Kevin Freeman and others: Duane and Jim Shepley in the early 60s- "We were at least 20 stories up, and Duane said 'Hey, man, let's hang off that tree!' He climbed until his weight pulled the tree over the building's edge, and he just dangled there laughing. That was Duane."


[Edited on 1/24/2003 by Marley]


Marley - 1/24/2003 at 12:23 AM

Hey, since we're talking about a movie right now, random question...where would you guys have it start? Fade in, first scene IS...


Sandman - 1/24/2003 at 03:46 AM

I think it should be a "flash ahead" kind of scene...starting with the current band on stage belting out Whipping Post for a few minutes then having the scene flow right into a flash back of the original band tearing up Whipping Post without missing a beat...

Then you could flash back even further to start the story of how they all came together...


phillybob - 1/24/2003 at 04:21 AM

I think it should start in black and white when Gregg and Duane's father was killed, what there thoughts were and how it drove them to be the legends they are.


Jonesy - 1/24/2003 at 05:55 PM

You folks may think I am nuts on this one but I think the movie should start with the death of Duane Allman, and weave backwards and around from there.

In hindsight, the drama of the death of Duane was the ultimate of tragedy and triumph (which makes for a good movie). The band was on the cusp of their greatest success when Duane was killed. I believe the movie has to end right there...no need to go beyond that, at least for the first movie! A skilled producer will create the dynamics of weaving together the individual stories and collective experiences of the band's members, and the band's formation and ultimate success.

There really is no cinematic need to take the band through today; I guess the question is do we want high drama or an intense documentary? I vote for the former and think that structure would meet the general public's interest...


ffisher - 1/24/2003 at 06:03 PM

I sense an Easy Rider beginning in Jonesy's idea. I like it. I like the other two ideas as well. Those were the two I had thought about yesterday, but I decided to suggest a more humorous beginning:

Start the movie at the "Foot Shootin' Party"


Marley - 1/24/2003 at 08:02 PM

Interesting point, Jonesy, although I'm not sure if it's fair to Berry... I think it has to include both.


OldDirtRoad - 1/24/2003 at 08:11 PM

quote:
I think it should start in black and white when Gregg and Duane's father was killed, what there thoughts were and how it drove them to be the legends they are.



Damn Bob !!..that was what I was thinking earlier and then my damn job got in the way......Good one man.


Jonesy - 1/24/2003 at 10:11 PM

Yeah, I hear you Marley I did think about that point- but keeping in mind the cinematic impact, Duane's role in the band and his untimely death carries the poignancy for an opening scene (IMO)- Berry's death was the exclamation point of an era coming to an end...

Needless to say I am sure when the folks in the know get into it in a movie, we will be surprised at Berry's behind the scenes impact and leadership on the band


PeachNutt - 1/26/2003 at 11:01 PM

I would agree that there's enough to make an epic film just using the history up to Duane's passing. There are so many threads to weave into that story as, Butch already pointed out,that a deeply emotional and powerful film could made.
I would also like to see a good deal about the bands reaction to intial success in the
March-Oct prior to the accident,time frame.
You could go back to Decemeber at the Fountain Blue with the 31st Of Febuary.
and me laying on Duane's amp or yelling wipe out....LOL

PeachNuTT


Marley - 1/27/2003 at 05:36 AM

I always wanted to see that bit on film.


Hophead - 1/27/2003 at 07:55 AM


The book begins with Phil Walden in a helicopter over the crowds at Watkins Glen, savoring the pinnacle of success as the ABB headlines the biggest rock concert in history. The story is told in flashback to explain the story to that point, and flash forward to the successes that followed.

Walden's betrayal of his brothers would be a central theme -- triumph and tragedy are exemplified here. There's enough material here for about 1,200 pages. I hope Butch's mystery writer gets started soon!







[Edited on 1/27/2003 by Hophead]


fschiazza - 1/27/2003 at 01:40 PM

Guys... There haven't been many (if any) bands that could touch the Allmans at their peak, and still not many that could touch them on an off night.

That being said, there have been many groups that have had more of a societal impact than the Allmans, and even they have never had a movie about them.

The plain truth is this:
IF there ever was an Allmans movie, any good movie maker would focus on the juicy parts of the story:
Duane's death, the drugs, Cher, Scooter Herring and the triumphant return. While WE would be interested in the Piedmont Park show, or the Watkins Glen show, not many others would be. Surely, no average movie-goer would care about on-stage jamming. Hell, not even many music fans can take it, much less movie goers.

Many of you who do not want a VH1 Behind the Music will have to deal with the same set of sordid details within the movie... Otherwise, it would be made.


Jonesy - 1/27/2003 at 04:05 PM

Frank I don't think you are carefully reading the posts here.

A good movie tells a good story...effectively. It moves people.

The folks on this thread are just rffing on ideas to develop that story.

The ABB have all of the melodrama in their history to tell a good story in an effective way. I don't think anyone commenting here is suggesting that in a movie these issues be sidestepped. Rather they should be presented within the context of the whole picture. Not one person has mentioned anything about on stage jamming as the focus.


Stephen - 1/27/2003 at 04:36 PM

Good point Jonesy, that's precisely what the focus of the musical side of the story (what other side is there?) should be on, is the onstage jamming and spontaneous live improvisation. From the 15 minute Black Hearted Woman at Love Valley in 1970 to the improvs of Desdomona and the new instrumental last summer, that would be THE read of the Allman Brothers Band.
Although -- as Dickey said at the conclusion of the VH1 special when asked what it is that makes ABB music what it is -- the question was followed by silence -- then Dickey piped up, "well we obviously improvise a lot better at music than we do talkin' ," cracking everybody up. Along the same thought, in a Hittin' the Note interview Butch was quick to dismiss the suggestion of a "psychic connection" onstage between he and Jaimoe.
Bottom line, it's the baddest musicians on the planet doing their thing.


Bingylandmusic - 1/27/2003 at 04:41 PM

quote:
The Scott Freeman book is a VERY long newspaper article. I am not a writer of books but I am an avid and well read reader of books and I can tell a novel from a biography from a short story and from just a regurgitation of facts: newspaper article. The story of the Allman Brothers Band is so incredibly rife with possibilities for an epic from so many different angles (the subculture that existed in America or the south in the '60's and '70's, the racial issues, and more than anything the MUSIC) that having the Freeman book as the sole representation of that story is very depressing. This is my major disappointment with the Freeman work. It tells a story that anyone with the time can go find out for themselves. It gives no special insights into that story and I know (I was there) there were many. We have been trying for quite some time now to get a certain person (I will not give his name) to write a screenplay for a major motion picture and to write the book along with it. He is the smartest person I have ever known and would write a "novel", probably an epic that would deal with most, if not all, of these issues and many that I wouldn't even be aware of. This is what makes a great writer and though, as I mentioned earlier, I have never written one myself, I am able to tell a good one from a bad one and, as I also mentioned, a novel from a peice of reportage. He swears that he is going to do it. I hope so. For Duane's legacy, if nothing else, this needs to happen.


Butch,I’m 51 and have been waiting a long time. I hope it happens when I can still remember the period of time it happened during. Freeman's book does read like a long newspaper article(I've said people magazine here before) but it's all that most of us have to go on , and before this thing, any info on the ABB was ancient history.. For Duane's legacy!!


ScottyVII - 2/5/2003 at 03:42 AM

What ever became of the book entitled "The Best Damn Band in the Land?" I know Guitar player magaizine was sponsering said title.


Marley - 2/5/2003 at 10:41 AM

I don't know the ins and outs, but the project fell apart...


ScottyVII - 2/10/2003 at 09:18 PM

Too bad! Guitar Player is a reputable periodical and I think that would have steered clear of the hype and concentrated on the music of the ABB.


Jack - 5/13/2003 at 01:33 PM

Sure would like to see the definitive bio of the ABB written before I die.Oh,and if they end up making a movie version ya gotta go with Andre Braugher(sp??) as Jaimoe.He's now on TV in the show Hack,previously he was on Homicide.


lyle - 5/13/2003 at 05:02 PM

Camron Crow of Almost Famous he might do a good job , but might be a little to close to almost famous, but I thought it was one of the best movies about the music of the 70 I ever seen , he has been there to know the real story. I think he only knew the band after Duane pass away. He dose Good work. oh well I threw my 2 cents in.

PS The Movie Tilte (The Road Gose on Forever)


hoosier - 5/16/2003 at 03:03 PM

I would love to see a comprehensive and truthful book on the ABB. S.Freeman's book fell well short in my opinion. A reader wants to feel like they are along for the ride when reading an account of a subject such as this band.

However, I'm not sure about a film. I think movies have a way of distorting our views of real life characters that we may have developed over the years either by personal contact or by outside influences(stories,photos,a/v tape, even our imaginations).

When we think of Duane or BO we each have a mental image of how we see them. I'm not sure anyone on screen would ever be able to create the spark that these two had. For every great movie part played about real people, particularly in the music biz, there was probably twenty others that sucked and would leave you feeling like you wished you hadn't even watched it.That is one feeling I definitely don't want in this case. I'm not saying it couldn't be done but like the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for...........

.Last thought, I know some have said it would help enhance Duane's legacy which would be great. For me though, his and BO's is already cemented with me, I don't need the movie. But, a good book .....................HMMMMM.-------just my opinion

[Edited on 9/13/2003 by hoosier]


jeffs - 5/31/2003 at 11:10 AM

i've thrown this idea out before, what about a scrap book style of book? sort of like
buffetts parrothead book or playing in the band. there has to be enough never seen
photos, memorabilia, old posters, import album covers, fan imput, band imput.
something like this could capture the tone of the times with pictures and words from
fans who have been there since day one.
it doesn't have to touch upon all of the soap opera material, leave that for the hacks.
in all of the above posts, people have mentioned moments in the bands history that should be captured, but what was happening at the time?
could revival have been an anthem?
was whipping post played over in viet nam?
hell. did drug smugglers listen to mountain jam on their runs from where ever to where ever?
marley, you seem to be the go to person on anything allman do you think that this would be an interesting project. not just for the fan but for a person who is a fan but doesn't know it yet.
this is a band with a rich history, like i said forget cher and cocaine. just that picture
of gregg and duane asleep on the bus tells us a thousand words of brotherhood.
i don't know, something to chew on.
does anyone have an idea of how to get something like this off of the ground? or
perhaps it is a dopey idea? go to any board and let me know what you think.


Rampat - 6/24/2003 at 12:06 AM

I might as well throw my 2 cents in on this one. I really don't think you could do a movie about the ABB. I think the only way this could be done right would be a 5 to ten part series on HBO as was done with Easy Company of the 101st airbourne in "Band of brothers" by Tom Hanks and Stephen Speilburg. It would probably have to be written by some people that talented with advisors on the set being the ABB themselves. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of those sessions.


bball1dad - 7/23/2003 at 05:49 PM

Let's get a grip. To suggest that the ABB in its many (re)incarnations is worthy of another book and perhaps a movie is absurd. These guys haven't had a hit since 1973; that's thirty years ago. I know they are a great bunch of musicians and all; but the creativity that brought them to their heights has been long, and I mean long, gone. I was a big fan in the early seventies and when I saw their show in the early nineties (after Seven Turns) I was hopeful; but frankly I found that the act had an "oldies" feel to it. While its commendable that these guys are still playing the old tunes to pay for their fancy houses and golf course memberships; to confuse them with the original band is folly. They ought to just come up with a new name instead of desecrating the old. This is especially true now that Betts is gone.

[Edited on 7/23/2003 by bball1dad]


KCJimmy - 7/23/2003 at 06:54 PM

bball1dad
Who peed in your cheerios this morning man? We don't come to your web site to critisize you as a dad or a BBall player/coach/fan or what ever. Furthermore you are worng. And while you are entitled to be wrong you could go somewhere else to do it. Most people who come here are fans. Your very first post ever here critisizes every version of the band since the original. You are about 31 years late my friend.

I love every version of this Band. Some I enjoy more than others and like most I agree the original line up is tops BUT that being said...Having listened to over 200 live performances consisting of every incarnation of the Band I can say that the Current line up comes closest to the original in sound and exceeds the original in a lot of ways. I can't remember a Really good version of:

Black Hearted Woman
Every Hungry Woman
Please Call Home

by the original line up. they played them form time to time but nothing like the current line up plays them. The first 2 of those are not easy songs for 6 or 7 guys to be perfectly in sync w/ one another (as evidenced by most of the live versions the original band played). The current line up is EXTREMELY talented and play the hell out of those tunes.

These guys are playing 45 - 50 songs on their tour and sounding consistantly great. You can't say that about any other incarnation of this band.

Let's not forget Cameron Crowes success with his movie that followed some unknown band around. If it is interesting people will come. They don't have to be fans of the Band if it tells an interesting story, which if writtten well, would be no problem at all.




[Edited on 7/23/2003 by KCJimmy]


Pam - 7/23/2003 at 07:46 PM

KCJimmy, the correct term you want is "who pissed in your cornflakes" and while we are on the subject of flakes here...
bball1dad, if you want to make friends or feel welcome around here you might want to try and be a little nicer, such negativity in a first post is not a good impression and first impressions are lasting thoughts of how a person really is.
And so what if they are playing old songs to have their fancy houses and golf course memberships, they are also playing their new songs and they haven't forgotten where they came from or all the years they could hardly afford to eat or get to the next gig. They have all earned what they have and worked hard for many years to get where they are today.
A new name for the band? Get a grip, THAT is absurd. Incase you may have forgotten, we still have three of the original members in the band so they have every right to call themselves by the original band name, they are not desecrating anything they are celebrating, keeping the original band name is showing respect for the original line up. It would have been like pulling a Grateful Dead>The Other Ones>The Dead if they changed the name. I am happy they are still and will always be The Allman Brothers Band.


LinnieXX - 7/23/2003 at 08:03 PM

quote:
Let's get a grip. To suggest that the ABB in its many (re)incarnations is worthy of another book and perhaps a movie is absurd. These guys haven't had a hit since 1973; that's thirty years ago.


and you're posting here for what reason bballdad1? i guess you haven't had a radio since 1973 either to hear either "Nobody Left to Run With" or "Soulshine".

gotta love first time posters who stir the pot move along, please.


bball1dad - 7/23/2003 at 08:26 PM

What I have difficulty understanding is this concept of the latest "version" or "lineup" of the band. This is not a baseball club that changes players year in and year out; but instead, is a band whose signature sound, in large part, was based upon the original guitar work of Duane Allman and Dickey Betts and the bass lines of Berry Oakley. The fact that some other group of musicians can faithfully recreate that "signature sound", and perhaps even improve on it, does not and cannot make them the the ABB as it ignores the fact that this new lineup did not create the guitar and bass lines. This latest lineup is not, and cannot ever be, the band that did, notwithstanding the presence of the three original members, none of whom created the guitar and bass lines. Moreover, history backs up my argument. After 1973 (Brothers and Sisters), not much has been added to the song legacy of the ABB, notwithstanding Linnie XX's reference to "Soulshine" or "Nobody Left To Run With". Such efforts do not even come close to the old classics. While I understand that three original members are still in the band, and the group no doubt has a legal right to the name, it must be conceded by those who believe the band still exists that at some point the loss of one or all of these remaining three would result in the end of the ABB. It can't possibly be argued that the name would go on after the loss of the remaining three original members provided a skilled enough group of musicians could recreate the signature sound. My guess is that most, if not all, would agree that the loss of Greg Allman would be the end of the ABB. However, if that is the prevailing argument, then that stands for the proposition that he alone embodies the ABB. I, and others, do not accept that premise. I believe that the ABB is long gone and this latest reincarnation does not celebrate the group of musicians that created the sound, but instead, capitalizes on their art. Perhaps this clever marketing by the remaining three members would be a good subject of a future book.

[Edited on 7/24/2003 by bball1dad]


Pam - 7/23/2003 at 08:48 PM

It is not just the people in the band it is the sound that they have, their own signature sound. No other band plays like they do.
I believe there is a need for a new book and/or movie. One that doesn't concentrate so much on arrests and drug usage and being promiscuos and the things that are behind now. I want to know more about the music, how does it all evolve into a song, and the families they have now, what were they feeling when they got together and wrote a certain song, what do they like to do on their time off from the road, how did they decide on what songs they wanted to do for the new DVD, what was going on in the practice sessions for bringing Layla back out, I want to know more about Tom Dowd and the bands great friendship they had, their musical influences, their side projects, I want to know about the good things that have happened and how they evolved to be the strong driving force of a band they are today, what they think of their fans, what they want to accomplish in the future.


LinnieXX - 7/23/2003 at 08:52 PM

quote:
What I don't understand is the concept of the "latest version" of the band. At some point doesn't the loss of enough members from the original band result in a group that is something other than the ABB.


bb1d: have you heard some of this "latest version"? if not, pm me for my address and i'll b&p you some of the best live music to be played in the past 20 years.


Marley - 7/24/2003 at 05:52 AM

quote:
What I have difficulty understanding is this concept of the latest "version" or "lineup" of the band. This is not a baseball club that changes players year in and year out;

There were a lot of changes before Dickey left. Warren and Allen (who'd been with the band for almost 8 years) quit in March of '97, Jack Pearson left in March '99. The current lineup has been intact for three years; that's the most stability the band has had in rather a long time.

quote:
but instead, is a band whose signature sound, in large part, was based upon the original guitar work of Duane Allman and Dickey Betts and the bass lines of Berry Oakley.

Two of those guys are no longer living, and there ain't **** we can do about it. A wise poster here has pointed out that if the ABB ever ended, it went with Duane and Berry. To suddenly draw the line at Dickey 30 years later doesn't make much sense at all.

quote:
The fact that some other group of musicians can faithfully recreate that "signature sound", and perhaps even improve on it, does not and cannot make them the the ABB as it ignores the fact that this new lineup did not create the guitar and bass lines.

The presence of Gregg, who was always the organist and singer, and Butch and Jaimoe, who were always the drummers, is getting thrown out here for no reason. Furthermore, Warren in particular HAS created a lot of his own music with the ABB.

quote:
This latest lineup is not, and cannot ever be, the band that did, notwithstanding the presence of the three original members, none of whom created the guitar and bass lines.

No, it's not the band that did that. That band was gone a long time ago, your indication that it existed until May of 2000 notwithstanding. The band that created some of the Allman's most famous songs - Ramblin' Man and Jessica, for example - is also long gone. The band is what it is now, and I think debating whether it's "real" or not is pointless. Change - usually of the unfortunate variety - has always been a constant for this band. And all bands evolve. The quality and integrity of their music, however, remains unchanged if you ask me. As do core elements of their sound.

quote:
Moreover, history backs up my argument. After 1973 (Brothers and Sisters), not much has been added to the song legacy of the ABB, notwithstanding Linnie XX's reference to "Soulshine" or "Nobody Left To Run With".

That's purely your opinion, not history. You're talking mostly about popular recognition - in which case the ABB's biggest success came from about '73 to '75 and has nothing to do with Duane, even though that period saw some of their worst internal troubles and some pretty weak music at times. If you don't think the songs you mention above are a big part of the ABB legacy - as are songs like End of the Line, True Gravity, All Night Train, and Back Where it All Begins - I feel sorry for you, because I think they're outstanding work.

quote:
Such efforts do not even come close to the old classics.

Your opinion again. I don't care if you think it, but don't treat it as a fact. That's just presumptuous.

quote:
While I understand that three original members are still in the band, and the group no doubt has a legal right to the name, it must be conceded by those who believe the band still exists that at some point the loss of one or all of these remaining three would result in the end of the ABB. It can't possibly be argued that the name would go on after the loss of the remaining three original members provided a skilled enough group of musicians could recreate the signature sound. My guess is that most, if not all, would agree that the loss of Greg Allman would be the end of the ABB. However, if that is the prevailing argument, then that stands for the proposition that he alone embodies the ABB. I, and others, do not accept that premise.

Gregg apparently would want the band to continue even without him. The Allman Brothers name would seem somewhat pointless if he wasn't in the band, but then again, it hasn't really been accurate since 1971, now has it? The above is mostly contingent on what you think the band means and should be. Good for you to have a take, but I don't think people are just going to accept it.

quote:
I believe that the ABB is long gone and this latest reincarnation does not celebrate the group of musicians that created the sound, but instead, capitalizes on their art.

I'd put money down that if you said this to Butch in person, you'd lose some teeth. To not like the music is one thing; to say that they're just in it for the money and are capitalizing on the lives, deaths and work of others is pretty damn rude.


Marley - 7/25/2003 at 12:55 AM

I agree 100%, OTF.


bball1dad - 7/25/2003 at 11:05 PM

I'd like to make several points before moving on for good:

1. I just drifted on to this site the other day. I've never been here before. I ended up on Butch Trucks thread by happenstance.

2. I'm not here to stir the pot. My original comments were provoked by the posts concerning the need for another book or movie. That sounded self-indulgent.

3. I apologize for offending folks because I didn't quite understand this band name/personnel issue. After reviewing the responses from other posters and traveling to the websites of other acts from the sixties and the seventies that have reformed with various lineups over the years; it's apparent that a band name belongs to anyone or group that has the right to the name and, more importantly, as a practical matter, is only really viable if accepted by their fans. Clearly, under this definition, the ABB is a viable band, notwithstanding the belief by me, or anyone else for that matter, that the band should be limited to a particular group of members. While that logic is counter intuitive to me; it appears to be the custom in the business. Nevertheless, my opinion about who the ABB is remains unchanged. It is beyond comprehension to me that you could call a group of personnel the ABB without Dicky Betts.

4. Finally, I think it is appropriate that I vent my opinions on this site as I speculate that their are other (ex)fans who share my beliefs. I would not take the time to do so unless I was fan. I have spent a fortune over the years buying their music and seeing their shows.

While the road goes on forever, the folks who travel on it do not.


CliffnTina - 7/26/2003 at 03:25 PM

I have to agree that this looks like the work of a small and yet relentless group of fans whose "Dreams" died when Dickey made his choice. Although the rest of the original members had made certain requisite points, they did so with the health of the band and it's music in mind. To that end they made available a limited set of options to Mr. Betts, but options they were and Dickey made his choice among them. There is a core of individuals that will not accept this scenario as fact and choose to attempt to disrupt and aggravate those of us that have accepted the band's decisions. Which one of these persons posted above is not so easy to determine, but certain phrases, sentence construction and the like could lead one to an educated guess... if that's important to anyone. I could care less; this constant whining, (it IS constant, although it's locus has moved.) as I say, the constant whining tires me. That's why I've decided to end this post.............................................................now.


bball1dad - 7/26/2003 at 04:31 PM

I am not a part of any group whose dreams died when Dicky Betts left the band. I am an old fan who didn't even realize he had left the band till I came across this site several days ago. I have no opinion one way or the other whether he should have been removed. I'm sure the group did what they thought was best. But as an old fan, it just seems wrong that these guys can continue under the name ABB after booting out one of the guys who created the signature sound and who wrote and sang alot of the hits. Dicky Betts wasn't just some sideman for pete's sake. Why don't they at least have the artistic integrity to change their name to something else (what they are now) and be proud of that. I suspect it has a lot to do with money. I mean even the Dead refuses to tour as the Dead without Jerry. Does the band ultimately turn into a Temptations act where in 10 years there are no original members left, just a group of guys who recreate the signature sound. I'm sure some would think that's a fine idea but I think it would cheapen the legacy of the ABB; just like playing without Dickey does, no matter how talented the replacement guitarists are.


CliffnTina - 7/26/2003 at 11:01 PM

OTF, I doubt this guy goes anywhere until he gets the argument started up again. His "artistic integrity" line is VERY interesting, don't you think? Isn't that part of the reason Dickey was asked to clean up? To preserve the artistry of a band known for it's integrity to it's music?


bball1dad - 7/27/2003 at 12:05 AM

Thank you OTF for that info concerning the Dead as it highlights this band name issue. Here is a group of musicians that stated they would not tour under the name The Grateful Dead after the death of Jerry Garcia. They rightfully live up to that promise by touring under another name but for some inexplicable reason this year decide to use the name The Dead, as they had been commonly called by their fans. This disparages the legacy of the band. Why? For several reasons. First, the implication is that Jerry was just a sideman who can be replaced by some other musician. But, he can't be replaced. His creative impulse contributed greatly to what the band was. Second, a significant amount of material cannot be performed because only Jerry can be Jerry. Third, it has the effect of transforming the band into a nostalgia act. While this may be acceptable for the many "oldies" act which play, it diminishes the significance of the music of a band with the history and substance of the Grateful Dead.

The situation with the ABB is substantially similar. Whether Dicky Betts left because he was booted out, justifiably or not, or whether he died, as the case with Garcia, the legacy of the ABB is cheapened by continuing to play under the name without him. He's not just some sideman who can be replaced. His creative impulses contributed greatly to the ABB. Alot of the ABB material cannot be performed without him because that material is so identified with his contributions and creativity. A glorified cover band is just not good enough.

Another point is that it has a tendency to straight jacket the substitutes. They are generally forced to play within some parameters that are consistent with musician they have replaced. While I'm sure they get a chance to stretch out, it's not the same as if they are in their own band at the formative level. Let's face it, for all intents and purposes, they are simply hired hands. That's how they are typically treated contractually. How can folks be truly creative under such constraints.

The band as a name representing a group of players who create the sound behind the name recedes in importance and instead the name becomes a type of corporate entity to be promoted and advanced irrespective of the players. Folks, that's where we are heading and before I'm summarily dismissed as some disgruntled fan, which I'm not, I believe fans should thoughtfully think through these issues, as the power of their purse, ultimately gives them final say on the matter.

I promise this time, no more posts, although I am glad to have had the opportunity to reflect upon this issue.


Rusty - 7/27/2003 at 12:52 AM

Hmmm. As far as the Dead goes, let me offer this. First of all, I am not an avid fan or a "Dead Head". I've seen them a few times, but truthfully I can take or leave them. I'm going to the Atlanta show next Thursday, mainly to see Dylan. The other guys (the other ones?) in the band contributed to the Grateful Dead sound and vibe for a lot of years. As big a factor as Jerry Garcia was, HE wasn't the band. The remaining members should be entitled to reap from the musical seeds that they have sown over the years.

The situation with the "Dead" is similar to the one involving Little Feat. As great as Lowel George was, and as big a factor as he was to the band's sound -they have done alright without him. Some would even say their music took a new and deeper direction after his departure. If there's anything real positive about the Feat's situation, it's that people can now appreciate just how good a player Paul Barere (spelling?) was all those years.

I do miss Jerry and Lowell. I hope to see them in rock n' roll heaven.


CliffnTina - 7/27/2003 at 02:10 PM

quote:
The situation with the ABB is substantially similar. Whether Dicky Betts left because he was booted out, justifiably or not, or whether he died, as the case with Garcia, the legacy of the ABB is cheapened by continuing to play under the name without him.


Absolutely untrue. With the deaths of Duane Allman and Berry Oakley TWO of the formative members that helped create the signature sound of SIX musicians had passed. The ABB would not have the blues force it was and is had it not been for the vocals of one Gregg Allman, whose voice has been described by critic after critic as the best white blues voice ever, something that has been repeated consistently for over three decades. The signature sound of the Allman Brothers Band would have been something else entirely were it not for the tandem percussion provided by Butch Trucks and Jaimoe. For you to ignore this in Butch's forum is beyond believable and becomes somewhat comic. The fact that you do not recognize that the signature sound was created by six musicians working together and was subsequently upheld by four originals cheapens your claim to fandom. Dickey contributed greatly, that's true, but let us not forget one glaring fact.... his last name is Betts, not Allman.

quote:
He's not just some sideman who can be replaced. His creative impulses contributed greatly to the ABB. Alot of the ABB material cannot be performed without him because that material is so identified with his contributions and creativity. A glorified cover band is just not good enough.


I think a listen to material following his departure is a fine idea. You will not find the band attempting to replace him; you will find a band that is playing it's own music. Allman Brothers Band music. Taste some, you might be surprised.

quote:
Another point is that it has a tendency to straight jacket the substitutes. They are generally forced to play within some parameters that are consistent with musician they have replaced.


Only if they are trying to copy his licks. They aren't. They never have. Neither is a substitute as you call them. Both guitarists worked opposite Dickey in the Allman Brothers Band and with his blessing. Try listening to the new CD and decide for yourself.

quote:
While I'm sure they get a chance to stretch out, it's not the same as if they are in their own band at the formative level. Let's face it, for all intents and purposes, they are simply hired hands.


Again untrue. Derek Trucks is ABB family, born and bred, Warren Haynes history with the band is well documented on CD after CD. Neither has been treated as or is considered to be a hired gun by anyone in the band, you may be sure of that.

quote:
That's how they are typically treated contractually.


Warren , at least, is supposed to be a full partner these days, so there's another point shot full in the face.

quote:
How can folks be truly creative under such constraints.


The new CD will demonstrate that far beyond your expectations.


quote:
The band as a name representing a group of players who create the sound behind the name recedes in importance and instead the name becomes a type of corporate entity to be promoted and advanced irrespective of the players.


Which players are those? Gregg ALLMAN, Butch TRUCKS, JAIMOE? Those players? The same players who you have forgotten also helped create and maintain the ABB signature sound? And what of this Warren Haynes character? A seven year veteran opposite Dickey Betts in the band, a creative force behind three studio efforts and author of several tunes now considered to be Allman Brothers classics? And this Derek TRUCKS person? What claim has he other than the fact that he grew up in the band, and was also hand-picked by a certain Betts personage?

quote:
Folks, that's where we are heading and before I'm summarily dismissed as some disgruntled fan, which I'm not,


You're right, you're not. Your lack of some of the most common knowledge attests quite strongly that you are, indeed, quite accurate in the above statement.

quote:
I believe fans should thoughtfully think through these issues, as the power of their purse, ultimately gives them final say on the matter.


Yes, we have not thought on these things at all IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. Let's see, tickets to Red Rocks this year, gas money for a 1500 mile round trip excursion, hotel, meals, refreshments at the venue, whoa!! that's one pretty powerful purse my wife and I are wielding eh, brother? And that's just THIS year....

quote:
I promise this time, no more posts, although I am glad to have had the opportunity to reflect upon this issue.


Thank you, Narcissus.







[Edited on 7/27/2003 by CliffnTina]


bball1dad - 7/27/2003 at 08:36 PM

Posters. Thank you for your responses. You have given me many points to ponder. I will go buy the latest CD and listen to it. I hope it's as good as the reviews and your posts suggest.


CliffnTina - 7/27/2003 at 11:22 PM

The reviews have been consistently good since the release of the CD. Having read only one pan out of some hundred or so, the reviews run from "what we expect from the Allman Brothers, but not more" to "How in the world did they pull that off AGAIN? And without Dickey, too."
The reviewers seem evenly split on whether or not Dickey would have contributed anything that might elevate the CD even more.


TerriB - 7/28/2003 at 12:09 AM

bball1dad...since you aren't so up on what's happened with the ABB over the years, I hope you also check out www.dickeybetts.com . Dickey is out on tour with his own band (Great Southern) and has released two albums since his ouster from the ABB, and he and his band are playing great to enthusiastic crowds. See? All parties involved have moved on, and probably for the better. We now get two great bands to see and hear.

BTW are you any relation to BeBe?


CliffnTina - 7/28/2003 at 02:00 AM

At least she didn't ask what part of Jacksonville he lives in.....


bball1dad - 8/1/2003 at 02:21 AM

CD is very good. Don't want to get into the comparison thing. A great bunch of bluesmen recording the blues the way I like it. What I think Derek shares so much with Duane is the depth of emotion he can convey for someone so young. It's very unusual.

The CD does not resolve the name issue for me and the more I looked into things on the net the more I'm confused about the whole issue. I'll make one brief observation though. Over the thirty plus years of the many lineups and splinter groups, there has never been a time until 2000 that the ABB did not have at least Greg, Dicky and Butch. Moreover, at no time does it appear that those three ever appeared together in any group other than the ABB. For example Butch played with Dicky but without Greg in "Betts Hall Leavell and Trucks". Thus, if history is used as a guide a strong argument exists for the proposition that no Dicky means no ABB. And I say this with no particular affection for Dicky as I always preferred the bluesy/jazz feel over the country feel. But history is history. However, I certainly understand why any fan would think the band is better without Dicky as there were apparently many difficulties from the interviews I found in my search. But in the end it doesn't matter. As Shakespere wrote, " A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".


CliffnTina - 8/1/2003 at 11:27 AM

quote:
Thus, if history is used as a guide a strong argument exists for the proposition that no Dicky means no ABB.


However, if one uses familial ties as a guide, then no Gregg means no ABB. To be honest, though, if one were to TRULY use history as a guide then no DUANE as original founder, organizer, inspiration, acknowledged leader, and one half of the Allman Brothers (note that this is pluralized), with his death that name could have been retired.
Dickey was not part of Duane's original format for the band, although Duane certainly knew a good thing when he heard it.
The fact is, Betts is Betts, he's not an Allman, although he certainly was one of the founding members. So were Berry and Duane. How is it that you continue to call the Allman Brothers by that name when Duane ALLMAN dies but stop when Dickey BETTS leaves, remains alive and tours with his own project bearing HIS name?
Don't you find that logic just a tad skewed?
I do.
And lastly, Dickey walked away from the band he had been in all those years. He was told to staraighten up, and they'd see him in the fall. Instead, he put together his own band. With that he gave up all entitlement to a name he never bore. Granted, he had a long association with that name, but it was never his, a fact he cemented with his choice of nomenclature for his new venture: Dickey Betts and Great Southern.


[Edited on 8/1/2003 by CliffnTina]


CliffnTina - 8/1/2003 at 11:59 AM

What you really should be asking is this:
With Dickey's long association with the Allman Brothers Band, with the fact that you claim that he is indivorcible from that name, and that even though he is no longer actively associated with that name, it must either remain with him or exist not at all.... who the hell does he think he is touring under the name of Betts? If he has one-quarter claim on the Allman name, then Gregg, butch and Jaimoe have a three-quarter claim on the name of Betts. He'll have to pick something else, or I won't acknowledge his claim.
I mean it.


bball1dad - 8/1/2003 at 03:59 PM

I hope my Shakespere quote makes it clear where I stand. As long as good music is being made, the name issue is a non event. If any thing the new album heightens, not diminishes, the band's legacy. I came across this site while web surfing. I was an old fan who first saw the band at Stony Brook in 1970. I learned how to play bass copying Berry's baselines off the albums. I saw them a few more times in the seventies and bought all their albums. I was saddened when I saw Greg in the early eighties in New Orleans playing before a less than crowded bar room. When the band reformed and recorded Seven Turns in 1990, I was thrilled. I went to several shows but I was not impressed. I rarely play or listen to rock music much anymore and so I wasn't aware that Dickey had left the band or that a new album had been recorded. My posts were an emotional response to something I felt bad about. How could the band go on without Dicky? Well I guess they can and did. There's been so many lineups and splinter groups over the past thirty years that where a splinter group starts and the ABB ends is very nebulous and murky to me anyway. In the end, history, if it deems it appropriate to evaluate the history of this group of musicians, will decide whether the current lineup, sans Dicky, is the ABB or just another splinter group. As long as good music is being made; it's a big so what.


CliffnTina - 8/1/2003 at 09:54 PM

OTF, nicely stated.

Thank God that's his last post.


CliffnTina - 8/1/2003 at 10:02 PM

Look, I just think that you've been using too much logic on this cat and if it continues, your privileges will be rescinded.


Pam - 8/2/2003 at 01:28 AM

And the moral of this story is please read around the site(s) for a day or two before you post.


CliffnTina - 8/2/2003 at 10:36 PM

Pam, if everybody did that, then we would all know what we're talking about and THEN where would we be? Anarchy, that's where, which I believe is STILL in New Jersey.


CliffnTina - 8/3/2003 at 12:09 AM

What is my obsession with New Jersey?????? What do you think they did with Jimmy Hoffa? Huh? You get it now? Huh? THAT'S my deal with New Jersey! Jimmy Hoffa, see, you can't deny it, see, it's all there for anyone to figure, see....


CliffnTina - 8/3/2003 at 01:00 PM

No one can approximate Gina, you know that.


Rampat - 8/28/2003 at 08:03 PM

Man am I glad all that name stuff is over with. When the ABB broke up in the late 70's no one took claim of the name. Dickey Had Great Southern, Chuck had Sea Level and Butch had "Trucks" which I was honered to be a member of. After the ABB got back together there was a period where great southern still existed and Greg had formed his own band "The Greg Allman Band". One night in Tallahasse Florida both Great southern and The Greg Allman Band were on the same bill at The Musical Moon. The club owner had the balls to put the Allman Brothers band on the Marque. when the two groups got there they were furious and would not go on untill it was changed. the show was great and both bands were spectacular and if I remember correctly there was a little jamming by all members at the end.
To get back to the origanal subject of this post. I would love to see a great book written about this entire part of History. But as I said before I don't think it could be done on Film unless it was done in the form of Band of Brothers by Hanks and Speiburg. I'm not talking about some cheap VH1 movie .I'm talking about a ten part (if not more) epic. In the credits of Band of brothers there are diffent writers, directors of each part. I'm sure that many scripts were submitted and that the actual living members of easy company were there to say no it didn't quite happen like that or I like this version of that one verses this one. The ABB is a Thirty plus yr. part of our countries history. Band of brothers was only 400 plus days and yet they couldn't tell the story in a 2 hr. movie. It is as far as I'm concerned Tom Hanks greatest work and he isn't even in it.
The ABB story would even be more difficult because of the length of time involved ...aging of the characters...god knows how many wives, break ups, fights moves on the part of band members. The farm near Macon. the bonnie & Delaney connection , The Derik & The dominoes connection, the splinter bands. There is just to much to tell in some silly 2 hr. movie. I know that Butch and the Band (ALL MEMBERS) will think long and hard about how to bring this story to all of us. I would rather see a 12 DVD epic done by HBO than some three or four hour movie. The book is one thing, but to bring this story to film is going to be a very, very diffucult thing to do. Nothing would thrill me more than to go into wallmart 2 yrs after HBO was done showing it to see a 10 or 12 dvd collection for 150 bucks of The Story OF "THE ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND". WITH BEHIND THE SCENES STUFF AND ALL THAT. iNTERVIEWS.....come on let's get real this is way to big a story to make a movie out of it....unless it was done like Lord of the rings or The Matrix in several parts and I don't think that would even do it Justice. God bless all and keep on Jammin....Pat


gina - 8/28/2003 at 09:26 PM

quote:
No one can approximate Gina, you know that.


And they could imitate (which as you know is a form of flattery), but NEVER create another Cliff. You are also a one and only! And I fully agree Jimmy Hoffa was buried under the goal posts in the end zone at Giants Stadium. We ALL know that, we just got quiet while they were building the Continental Arena for obvious reasons.


gina - 8/28/2003 at 09:31 PM

The biggest question should be, what would you want in a biography? What should it focus on, musical affiliations, configurations, formative influences, should it leave out the personal family life stuff including inuendos, and twisted hearsay people half remember, or should it include road tales. A lot of people criticized Red Dog's accounts which focused on things that diminished some band members or besmirched their reputations as stars/performers in some people's minds; some people can't handle the truth. So what would you want in an authentic biography? I think Gregg oughta write it anonymously. He's very eloquent, he's just quiet so he doesn't get sued. Butch is very expressive and candid and honest and rational, he would also provide a very good in depth introspective analysis; only problem being the chapter on Dickey would have to be edited to leave out stuff that had any legal ramifications.


Rampat - 8/28/2003 at 10:00 PM

When John Belushi died, his wife aseked Bob Woodward to write a biograghy. The book he wrote "Wired" in my opinion was an insult to a great comedien and Bluesman. Judith Belushi was obviously outraged as well and wrote her own Biograghy of John "Samaria Widow" which was a great read and much closer to the truth. It would be great to read Butch's, Dickey's, Greg's,Jamoi's, Warren's,Derik's or even uncle Phil's mermories of how it all went down....in their own autobiograghy's but.......an epic FILM would have to be done by the best in the field and no matter how or who did it, I'm sure some toes would get stepped on. This is something that may not be able to be accomplished for yrs. to come. I think we all all know however that the ABB will be the ones who decide how, when and who will do it. nuff said, Pat


Marley - 8/29/2003 at 04:25 AM

quote:
So what would you want in an authentic biography? I think Gregg oughta write it anonymously.

Although now, he can't do that because we'll all know it's him.

quote:
He's very eloquent, he's just quiet so he doesn't get sued.

I'm not sure I agree. He definitely is eloquent when he wants to be, but I think he is (and if the accounts we've seen can be trusted, always has been) kind of a reserved guy who ended up very famous. But here's hoping he gets into the biography thing.

quote:
only problem being the chapter on Dickey would have to be edited to leave out stuff that had any legal ramifications.

I'm thinking they'll just stay away from the whole mess...


jamminpappy - 10/28/2003 at 12:45 AM

last post on this was in August..........anything new to report?


Marley - 10/28/2003 at 03:11 AM

Actually, maybe. There was something in the Guest Book a few weeks ago about a writer who was working on a book and/or screenplay about the band. It was just mentioned at the end, maybe it was the guy Butch was talking about.


Marley - 10/28/2003 at 03:13 AM

Okay, I found it. His name is David Hickey, here's the story:

Nevada Writers Hall of Fame honors 2 Las Vegas professors
Reno Gazette-Journal
September 30, 2003

Two Southern Nevada professors are the 2003 inductees into the Nevada Writers Hall of Fame. David Hickey and John Irsfeld will join some of Nevada's favorite and best-known literary names in the Hall of Fame at induction ceremonies Oct. 8 in Reno.

Hickey, the Schaeffer professor of modern letters at the University of
Nevada, Las Vegas, writes fiction and cultural criticism, including "Stardumb,"
"Air Guitar: Essays on Art & Democracy," and "The Invisible Dragon: Four Essays
on Beauty."

Hickey also has worked as executive editor of Art in America magazine, as
contributing editor of The Village Voice and Art Issues and has written
exhibition catalogs for several artists.

His next projects are a screenplay and a book about the Allman Brothers Band.


jamminpappy - 10/28/2003 at 11:58 PM

Man I hope they nail it . Iwould just love it!


Marley - 10/29/2003 at 12:05 AM

My question is "where do I get in touch with David Hickey to volunteer my services?"


PeachNutt - 10/29/2003 at 02:49 AM

wow....i just hope it's correct, true and it comes to pass........
at last......wow..........


Evansf - 2/25/2004 at 07:59 PM

Hey folks, sorry I'm late, but the definitive ABB biography should be written more on MUSIC rather than dwelling on the ABB members' past. More emphasis on determination and balls to keep the good ABB vibes going for all time.


EdwardZ - 4/28/2004 at 05:13 PM

Has anyone heard anything about this lately? Has anyone contacted Mr. Hickey to see if this is indeed something he is planning on doing? There are sooo many twists and turns in the history of this band. I don't understand why this hasn't gotten off the ground yet..
I could see this as a short series of shows like "Band of Brothers" was on HBO. Hopefully it would be better than this show "Deadwood" that's on HBO now though. IMHO it's lame compared to "Band of Brothers"..
I do hope somebody can make this happen sometime while all the important players that are still left can provide information. It really needs to be as factually and historically accurate as possible.


Marley - 4/29/2004 at 10:51 AM

I don't think anything's been said publicly. Phil Lesh is working on a book now (with a writer, of course). It'll be out in about a year. I wonder if that might create a little more of a market for an ABB book, you know- so many things have already been published about the Dead, maybe people will start wondering about firsthand accounts from the other great bands that got started around then.


carlosofcoronado - 5/26/2004 at 01:48 AM

"Hey folks, sorry I'm late, but the definitive ABB biography should be written more on MUSIC rather than dwelling on the ABB members' past. More emphasis on determination and balls to keep the good ABB vibes going for all time."

The difference in the two is one is a fawning blinders to all processes that lead to and help create music, attitudes, etc., etc, and a tabloid version with shocking claims of an alien mating with one of the ABB to create a super galactic touring band [and if you know that reference, you are as old as I am]

I would prefer an honest account that includes elements of both, however. While the band itself may wish not to dwell on the past, per se, as a historian researcher I would love to know a wide range of historical processes related to the creation of the band, including discussion of the creators they drew upon, and day to day events that influenced the band.

Cheers

Carlos "it should be a multi-volume, footnoted, set complete with photos and accurate discography" Rivera


CowboyNeil - 9/3/2004 at 05:28 PM

Phil Carson wrote a book on Roy Buchanan that was about the music and did not get caught up in a bunch of melodrama. Its called American Axe and its a good read. He did his homework interviewing Roy's family, band members ,etc. Butch if you want a good read on rock and roll back in the early days the beginning of this book takes you there. If your looking for someone to write a book on the ABB you might want to give him a call, he's a huge fan but can also be very objective.


cleaneduphippy - 9/11/2004 at 04:59 PM

Cowboy Neil,

Read the book "American Axe" about Roy Buchanan by Phil Carson, it's an excellent book about the man, and I would recommend it to anybody.


jamminpappy - 11/24/2004 at 04:04 AM

Just bumping this thread up after reading the anything goes thread .


PeachNutt - 4/7/2005 at 02:30 AM

I certainly hope it happens....I also think the style of the Mike Bloomfiled biography...
"If you love these blues" would be a great style to use for hearing Duane stories.....

PeachNuTT
I Love Hittin' The Note Magazine (buy it!!)


PeachNutt - 4/13/2005 at 12:05 AM

too quiet around here...what's up?? Butch, how are you?


jamminpappy - 5/24/2006 at 02:33 AM

bumping this up ^ any news or has this been shelved?


BIGV - 5/30/2006 at 10:11 AM

This is an Interesting thread...On a different slant, I too had dreamt at one time or another of the possibility of an Allman Brothers film. But, my vision was a little different. I envisioned a Civil War film with the band (and other Southern rockers in Cameo roles) as a Confederate Regiment, all young men from the same town, with Torn uniforms, sitting around a Campfire, singing and playing the music of the time. Charlie daniels on Fiddle... They came close in "Cold Mountain"...with the great score....I know, I know...... what an Imagination....or good spleef.


dougrhon - 6/3/2006 at 04:20 AM

quote:
This is an Interesting thread...On a different slant, I too had dreamt at one time or another of the possibility of an Allman Brothers film. But, my vision was a little different. I envisioned a Civil War film with the band (and other Southern rockers in Cameo roles) as a Confederate Regiment, all young men from the same town, with Torn uniforms, sitting around a Campfire, singing and playing the music of the time. Charlie daniels on Fiddle... They came close in "Cold Mountain"...with the great score....I know, I know...... what an Imagination....or good spleef.


I don't like that image of the ABB. I prefer to think of them as Southern hiipies preaching peace, love and inclusion.

Doug


cycler - 6/24/2006 at 12:55 PM

just want to say that when I read Midnight Riders, I was not a big ABB fan,or music fan, for that matter..reading the book led me to buy LAFE, which of course led to the other albums by the ABB, which of course opened up my mind to the joys of music...also, for some reason, the book made the Brothers so very human to me,not some unapproachable rock stars, kind of like I was meeting and making new friends...if it was a newspaper article, for me it was a very moving newspaper article...that said, I sure wouldnt mind reading another book, telling the story from the Brother's points of view and memories...and thanks to Butch Trucks for taking the time to post here...


Stephen - 6/25/2006 at 07:55 AM

Cycler, two other books you might like are No Saints, No Saviors, by Willie Perkins, and A Book of Tails, by Joseph "Red Dog" Campbell. They travelled with the band from the its inception (Willie since May 1970) as manager and roadie respectively, and the books have great insights and stories into the early ABB.


cycler - 6/25/2006 at 05:56 PM

Stephen, thanks for the suggestions...I have read Saints/Saviors, honestly, it didnt register with me the way Midnight Riders did...have my pre-order for the new Duane book with Amazon, just gonna have to wait it out...I would really like to see the book, Butch talks about, come to fruition, same as 99.99% of the members of this board, but only if the project has the full blessings and participation of all the band members...


okie7 - 4/9/2008 at 05:02 AM

quote:
CD is very good. Don't want to get into the comparison thing. A great bunch of bluesmen recording the blues the way I like it. What I think Derek shares so much with Duane is the depth of emotion he can convey for someone so young. It's very unusual.

The CD does not resolve the name issue for me and the more I looked into things on the net the more I'm confused about the whole issue. I'll make one brief observation though. Over the thirty plus years of the many lineups and splinter groups, there has never been a time until 2000 that the ABB did not have at least Greg, Dicky and Butch. Moreover, at no time does it appear that those three ever appeared together in any group other than the ABB. For example Butch played with Dicky but without Greg in "Betts Hall Leavell and Trucks". Thus, if history is used as a guide a strong argument exists for the proposition that no Dicky means no ABB. And I say this with no particular affection for Dicky as I always preferred the bluesy/jazz feel over the country feel. But history is history. However, I certainly understand why any fan would think the band is better without Dicky as there were apparently many difficulties from the interviews I found in my search. But in the end it doesn't matter. As Shakespere wrote, " A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".



First time poster, long time fan and forum reader - someone more experienced please help me here. This person sounds like a huge DB fan, that he is so pi@@ed that DB was ousted, thanks in my opinion, to long time issues no one but he and the original ABB know anything about, but was surely mutual. Why can't he/she spell DICKEY??


Rusty - 4/16/2008 at 09:15 PM

How many members of the original line-up had formal music training. I know Gregg played in the high school band, seems like I read that Butch did too. Anybody know?


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