Thread: Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas Blockbuster

robslob - 8/23/2017 at 08:15 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/east-won-kyrie-irving-lebron-james-rivalry-rek indled-034640919.html

A friend of mine said he thought Boston came out on top for landing Irving. I said WAIT a minute here because I think the Cavs probably got the better end of the deal.

In general I would agree that Kyrie Irving is a better player than Isaiah Thomas........he's also six inches taller (Thomas is listed at 5'8" but some wonder if he's really that big). But the Cavs got a proven veteran in forward Jae Crowder, a 6'-11" 20 year old Croatian center, Ante Zizic, who has shown promise playing in Europe, and the Brooklyn Nets' 2018 first round pick which is likely to be a lottery pick.

And even if you just look at Irving vs. Thomas, you will see that Thomas' numbers in 2016-17 were actually better than Irving's: Thomas averaged 29 points, Irving 25. Both averaged right around 6 assists per game. Of course, at 5'8", Thomas is going to be a defensive liability at times. Then again, if Thomas is willing to let LeBron be the star, who knows what can happen? Apparently Kyrie Irving had a BIG problem with that.

Stephen, our resident Celtic fan: What do you think about this trade? Celtics DID land a superstar, that cannot be denied. And they appear to have a solid team behind him including former Utah Jazz star Gordon Hayward.


tbomike - 8/23/2017 at 09:58 PM

Celtics fan since 1965 here. You can't examine IT's offensive output last year as the far and away primary scorer on the roster against Irving as obviously Irving's numbers would have been much higher if you dropped him into last years Celtics lineup instead of IT and he was not sharing offensive loads with Bron and Love.

Now I love love IT and what he accomplished here. I am also a huge Crowder fan. But IT made clear he wants a max contract next year and as much as I love him I cannot give him a max contract at his size and age and the reality that he is a significant defensive liability. ( Irving is not much better on that score but ) Modern NBA trades have to be examined within the context of salary cap both short term and long term and Crowder and ZIzic had to go to match the salaries up. Also Crowder was going to lose minutes both short term and long term to Tatum and Brown.

A stong argument can also be made that Brooklyn is not going to be as bad as they were and the Celtics still have a slew of picks.

I will say this. Ainge has some balls on him. It will be several years probably before we really know about this one but it is the exact kind of move that Ainge has been stockpiling assets for. I think the only bummer from my perspective is if Ainge had known this was going to play out he probably would have held onto Bradley. But he had no way to know that.

Will always be a big fan of what Crowder and IT did here. When the Celts got either of them nobody jumped up and down with excitement and I have said the last 2 years that only provbably Brad Stevens and IT himself believed he could do what he did while in Boston.


robslob - 8/24/2017 at 01:29 AM

quote:

Celtics fan since 1965 here. You can't examine IT's offensive output last year as the far and away primary scorer on the roster against Irving as obviously Irving's numbers would have been much higher if you dropped him into last years Celtics lineup instead of IT and he was not sharing offensive loads with Bron and Love.

Now I love love IT and what he accomplished here. I am also a huge Crowder fan. But IT made clear he wants a max contract next year and as much as I love him I cannot give him a max contract at his size and age and the reality that he is a significant defensive liability. ( Irving is not much better on that score but ) Modern NBA trades have to be examined within the context of salary cap both short term and long term and Crowder and ZIzic had to go to match the salaries up. Also Crowder was going to lose minutes both short term and long term to Tatum and Brown.

A stong argument can also be made that Brooklyn is not going to be as bad as they were and the Celtics still have a slew of picks.

I will say this. Ainge has some balls on him. It will be several years probably before we really know about this one but it is the exact kind of move that Ainge has been stockpiling assets for. I think the only bummer from my perspective is if Ainge had known this was going to play out he probably would have held onto Bradley. But he had no way to know that.

Will always be a big fan of what Crowder and IT did here. When the Celts got either of them nobody jumped up and down with excitement and I have said the last 2 years that only provbably Brad Stevens and IT himself believed he could do what he did while in Boston.


Great perspective and you just made the trade make a lot more sense. Especially the part about Thomas wanting a max contract after this year.


emr - 8/24/2017 at 01:53 AM

I think Isaiah's hip injury is the wild card in this deal. If healthy I like what the Cav's did


kevdab - 8/24/2017 at 09:56 AM

A long time Celtic fan here. Isaiah has been great during his time here with the Celtics. He was loved and will be missed. Guy's his size are fun to watch, when they are that good. I don't think the Celts were going to give him a max contract. I don't think I would disagree. With his size and his style of game, injuries and if he just loses a half step, his game won't be the same.
The Celtics will be a completely different team this year. They basically blew it up. The core of Bradely, Crowder, and Thomas are gone. The rookie, Tatum, and last years pick, Brown, much will be expected. Adding Haywood and Irving is an upgrade in talent over last years team.
Brad Stevens is a good coach. He got the most out of his teams the last couple years. He will now be coaching better players than before. Will he be able to get the best out of this new team? Time will tell. I hope so.
The Celtics gave up a lot. They needed a true superstar, and got one in Irving. It's going to be interesting.

Let's Go Celtics


jszfunk - 8/24/2017 at 11:55 AM

I like what Cleveland did, but will it really matter? It's still going through Golden State for the Championship, and it's still going to be the Cav's in the East, barring freak injuries to LeBron.
I don't think any team is going to beat LeBron and company to go to the finals. Boston may have gotten better, but I don think they will take them. Heck the Pacers lost the series 4-0 to them by an average of 4 points(with Paul George and bunch of"who" guys) where I think Boston lost by an average of 25,if I did my math right. I am sure I will be corrected if I did not.

IT may want a max deal , but will he get it? Yeah, the money that has been thrown around to some of these players makes me scratch my head would not surprise me if he did. He may decide to stay in Cleveland and this might persuade LeBron to stick around to and they could build around them. Crowder is a nice piece, and they will be getting a 1st rounder too. You never know.
That's the thing. Players ,for the most part are more about they're "brand" self importance, and location . Why go to the West and struggle through that.


I think both teams benefited from that trade. If I heard correctly Boston only has 4 players returning from last years team? Wow! I think they upgraded with Gordon and Kyrie, but just have wait and see how well they play together. Of course they have got a very good coach to direct them.


Like I said, and it's just my opinion, it's Golden States to lose, and I don't see that happening now.


kevdab - 8/24/2017 at 03:59 PM

Celtics got younger. I think they are a couple years away from contending with Golden State. I think that Lebron will be going to the Lakers after this year. If that happens, the Celtics should be the best of the east. Right now, nobody can touch Golden State.


This thread come from : Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band
http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/

Url of this website:
http://www.allmanbrothersband.com//modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&fid=127&tid=145122