Thread: The "Ferguson Effect"

alloak41 - 6/5/2015 at 03:25 PM

Rushing to judgment in racial cases and racial politics in general has a high cost...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425






[Edited on 6/5/2015 by alloak41]


alloak41 - 6/5/2015 at 04:54 PM

It's ironic that the areas that hold the strongest animosity toward the police are the precise areas that need police the worst. While most of the folks living in these neighborhoods are law abiding people, the bad apples and race-baiting officials have made it even more dangerous for everyone.

The police must have the confidence to do what's necessary to keep the neighborhood safe. They have to know the administration has their back. Sadly, when they are made into the scapegoat there will be a natural hesitation. The average cop on the beat has become a mere step away from becoming a household name, and ruined forever.

The misguided quest to retain a voting block at any cost has gone terribly wrong.


BoytonBrother - 6/6/2015 at 12:06 AM

The problems in Ferguson and Baltimore are way more complicated than what's on the surface. IMO, this is a byproduct of class warfare, which is a byproduct of capitalism. In all of these poor black neighborhoods all over the country, they accept the cards they have been dealt, but aren't going to tolerate racial violent abuse on top of it, to the point where they are being murdered just for running away. Yes, it's stupid to run from the police, but don't get it twisted, the Founding Fathers would be disgusted at stories like this - they tried to create a society where that type of abuse wouldn't happen. It doesn't matter if he robbed a convenient store, or wanted to avoid child support....Americans don't get killed because they run away, and that's what makes us better than other countries that abuse their citizens.

If anyone is to blame for the mess in these communities, it's the politicians.


Fujirich - 6/6/2015 at 09:19 AM

50-60 years of political thinking that if you throw money at something, it will get better has resulted in higher poverty levels, higher illegitimacy, and higher percentages of broken and single-parent homes. That, combined with disastrous economic planning over a similar period that has squandered away our industrial base and the opportunity for decent jobs has resulted in a class of dependents who's sense of self worth, and their value in the community, has become distorted. Politicians will not touch the real issues that must be addressed to fix this, because to do so threatens their own power.


alloak41 - 6/9/2015 at 03:46 PM

Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.

Don't run, charge at him, refuse to hold still, scream obscenities at him, attempt to grab his firearm, and what not. If you are told to leave the area five times and continue to hang around, don't complain if you get manhandled shortly after that. How hard is this?

Compliance with a simple request greatly decreases your chance of law enforcement related health problems.


heineken515 - 6/9/2015 at 03:48 PM

Worth repeating, Chris Rock on how not to get your a*s kicked by the police:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8


BillyBlastoff - 6/9/2015 at 04:10 PM

quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.



So cops as trained professionals are not responsible for their actions. You actually think that cop was in the right by slamming that bikini clad teenager to the ground???

Jesus God almighty Alloak - you are a complete and utter Fascist.


gondicar - 6/9/2015 at 04:14 PM

quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.

How is this a "Ferguson Effect"? I agree with you that there is a lack of respect for police officers in many places, but the reasons for it are complex and it pre-dates the events in Ferguson by a long shot. Ferguson was an outcome of this, a symptom if you will, not a cause.



[Edited on 6/9/2015 by gondicar]


alloak41 - 6/9/2015 at 04:26 PM

quote:
quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.



So cops as trained professionals are not responsible for their actions. You actually think that cop was in the right by slamming that bikini clad teenager to the ground???

Jesus God almighty Alloak - you are a complete and utter Fascist.


Why? Because I have the good sense not to escalate an already volatile situation?

And why did it come to that? Eyewitnesses testified that she'd already been told to leave the area numerous times and refused. How stupid is that? Again, your best bet is to just do what they ask you to do.


BillyBlastoff - 6/9/2015 at 05:55 PM

Your best bet is to hire well trained, professional police officers. In situations like that someone has to be the adult. Since the kid, was, well... a kid, I'd hope the adult would be the professional law enforcement specialist.

That cop acted like a thug.

quote:
Why? Because I have the good sense not to escalate an already volatile situation?


No. A Fascist believes in and supports an unfettered police state. If you think those cops actions are correct and professional I can only assume you advocate for an unfettered, unaccountable police state.

In my mind - That ain't America.


stormyrider - 6/9/2015 at 06:17 PM

I agree that when a cop tells you to do something, you do it.
But - on a personal level, my wife was dragged out her car by a cop at a traffic stop for no reason at all. She fought the ticket and the judge reprimanded the cop
Another time, she was also pulled over one time by a statie who simply wanted her name and number

on a national level, we've all seen the vids of Staten Island and South Carolina. Those people shouldn't be dead (among others)

there are clearly some cops out there who think they are above the law and do whatever the hell they want.

I'm grateful to the majority of cops out there, the good cops, who do their job, put their life on the line, and protect me. I realize it's a tough job and will more often then not give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm angry at those who overstep their authority and use more violent means than are necessary.
That MUST be stopped, and it shouldn't break the criminal justice sytem to ask the cops to act as professionals with respect.


LeglizHemp - 6/9/2015 at 06:21 PM

I'm not sure what to make of the McKinney incident. in general, if you are doing something you shouldn't be doing and the cops show up, you get the hell out of there. if you have permission to be there just sit down and wait it out.

it does sound like, to me so far, that some of the kids caused a scene. it also sounds like some of the adults made fools of themselves too.

the young lady had a chance to leave and wouldn't just sit down to wait to tell her story. she just kept coming back for more while barney fife was trying to get a handle on things.

little barney fife was completely out of control, he really lost his cool.

the boy who got arrested and a bloody lip, although I don't think he was attacking the officer, seemed to slip as he ran up to the officer. I can believe the cop thought he was being attacked because all he could see was this kid jumping around behind him.

I have had many encounters with the police and from experience I can tell you, if you don't want trouble, do what they say. you can always work it out later. telling the police what they can and can't do will not help your situation at all.

a lot of bad decisions were made by a lot of people.....again.


bob1954 - 6/9/2015 at 07:40 PM

quote:
a lot of bad decisions were made by a lot of people.....again.

True. The real question is "why?". Again and again we see this happening.

I believe the root cause is a lack of trust between the police force and blacks in poor urban neighborhoods. The police have been conditioned to assume blacks in these neighborhoods are engaged in criminal activity. Blacks in these neighborhoods have been conditioned to believe that the police are the enemy. Both parties are acting out based on their beliefs. Until something happens to change that dynamic the problem will continue.


alloak41 - 6/9/2015 at 07:41 PM

quote:
Why? Because I have the good sense not to escalate an already volatile situation?


No. A Fascist believes in and supports an unfettered police state. If you think those cops actions are correct and professional I can only assume you advocate for an unfettered, unaccountable police state.

In my mind - That ain't America.


How do you make that connection? I don't support an unfettered police state so don't be ridiculous, and just as ridiculous is your claim that they aren't accountable. How's that exactly?

Nor do I support or have any sympathy for somebody stupid and disrespectful enough to disobey the police. Failure to do so raises the stakes significantly and chances are you come out on the short end.

You can keep putting it off on the cops, but ALL of these recent cases have one thread in common. In every one of them there was some level of resistance to the police. Delete that part of the equation and we're not even talking about this.


DougMacKenzie - 6/9/2015 at 07:51 PM

I think the lack of trust angle has a ton of validity, although this incident in McKinney wasn't in a poor black neighborhood. I don't yet know where all of the kids came from, but I know several of the ones causing the ruckus did not live in that neighborhood. I really don't know how we get the police and the citizens back on the same side, but it is apparent a significant segment of our society do not trust the police and vice versa, and not without reason on either side.


BillyBlastoff - 6/9/2015 at 08:24 PM

quote:
How do you make that connection? I don't support an unfettered police state so don't be ridiculous, and just as ridiculous is your claim that they aren't accountable. How's that exactly?

Nor do I support or have any sympathy for somebody stupid and disrespectful enough to disobey the police. Failure to do so raises the stakes significantly and chances are you come out on the short end.

You can keep putting it off on the cops, but ALL of these recent cases have one thread in common. In every one of them there was some level of resistance to the police. Delete that part of the equation and we're not even talking about this.



You absolutely support the cop in this instance. You absolutely do not hold the cop accountable.

The cop is the professional. It is incumbent on the cop not to slam a bikini clad teen age girl to the ground. WTF? Do you honestly believe her behavior warranted his reaction? Was she a danger to the police officer? Did he think she had a concealed weapon?

quote:
In every one of them there was some level of resistance to the police. Delete that part of the equation and we're not even talking about this.


Why don't we just delete all crime? Then we won't need police at all.

Do you realize it is exactly "levels of resistance" that cops are paid to deal with?

Sheesh.


BoytonBrother - 6/9/2015 at 08:58 PM

Generally speaking....about nobody here personally:

since the perps are black in all of these examples, some will never give them the benefit of the doubt. But if it were the other way around, and black cops start man-handling white suburban teen girls because they didn't leave an area, well these same people saying "just do what they say - if you disobey, it's your fault" would be singing a much different tune. The father of a white teen would be suing the cops in 2 seconds.

Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]


Bhawk - 6/9/2015 at 09:05 PM

I continue to amazed at just how profoundly our society is being affected by the fact that everyone has a camera.


BillyBlastoff - 6/9/2015 at 09:08 PM

quote:
Rushing to judgment in racial cases and racial politics in general has a high cost...



Ignoring the racial component has a higher cost.


bob1954 - 6/9/2015 at 09:09 PM

quote:
I continue to amazed at just how profoundly our society is being affected by the fact that everyone has a camera.

Are you saying that is good or bad?


BillyBlastoff - 6/9/2015 at 09:11 PM

Are you sure the girl wasn't doing what she was told alloak?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/09/1391717/-Jon-Stewart-s-take-on-pol ice-assault-of-teenage-girl-in-McKinney-TX?detail=email


quote:
Jon Stewart and Jessica Williams use sarcasm to show the insidiousness of the assault by the McKinney police on an innocent teenage girl at a pool party. Stewart starts the skit by playing a CNN report stating that the incident began because of kids without pool passes using the pool. It then showed a subsequent clip that indicated the police officer that brutalized the young teenager and manhandled other minority kids was placed on administrative leave.

Stewart then showed the most graphic portion of the video, the segment where the police officer assaulted the young teenager and pointed his gun at two teenage boys. He showed that the officer was being redundant as he was asking the teenager to do what she was already doing—while on the ground he commanded her to get her ass on the ground.

Stewart then showed how biased the reporting is as the narrative implied that all the black kids were visitors without pool passes. He showed a clip where a teenager with her father explained that she lives in the neighborhood, has a pass, and was at the pool party. Moreover she said many kids had pool passes.

Jon Stewart then moved on to his "Senior Texas Aquatics Correspondent" Jessica Williams. Jessica was dressed in a bathing suit complete with body armor. She found it necessary to provide pool etiquette that was specific to black people and by extension those with a darker hue. "This week's incident has taught black people here something valuable," Jessica Williams said. "When you go to a pool party even in your own neighborhood that you live in, you have got to know pool etiquette. Which is no running, no splashing, no talking back. And if at all possible, get your ass even further into the ground than it is."

Williams used Stewart alluding to playing with a water gun to articulate a distinction and important reality. She said paraphrasing that open carry is for white people as black people with guns put an irrational fear into many. She ended on a positive note. The police incident was progress. After all, the police pulled out his gun on black kids and none of them got killed.

Head below the fold for the clip.


alloak41 - 6/9/2015 at 09:57 PM

quote:
Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]


But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


jkeller - 6/9/2015 at 10:33 PM

quote:
quote:
Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]


But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


Many of those kids, both black and white, had passes to the pool and lived in the neighborhood. Since they were doing nothing wrong, the police had no business telling them to leave. You really seem to support a police state.


BillyBlastoff - 6/9/2015 at 10:44 PM

quote:
But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


SHE WAS OBEYING!!!

Have you seen the video? He is yelling, "Get on down on your A$$!" And she is already sitting on the ground. Then he lifts her up and slams her down.


jkeller - 6/9/2015 at 10:50 PM

quote:
quote:
But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


SHE WAS OBEYING!!!

Have you seen the video? He is yelling, "Get on down on your A$$!" And she is already sitting on the ground. Then he lifts her up and slams her down.


And now it has been reported that the cop resigned from his job.


MartinD28 - 6/9/2015 at 11:04 PM

quote:
Another manifestation of the Ferguson Effect is an apparent lack of respect for police officers. We saw this again in McKinney. If a cop tells you to get on the ground and keep your mouth shut, then get on the ground and keep your mouth shut.

Don't run, charge at him, refuse to hold still, scream obscenities at him, attempt to grab his firearm, and what not. If you are told to leave the area five times and continue to hang around, don't complain if you get manhandled shortly after that. How hard is this?

Compliance with a simple request greatly decreases your chance of law enforcement related health problems.


Another in a line of myopic posts by you. You weren't there, & it wasn't one of your kids. It's very simple to be an arm chair quarterback and attempt to rationalize behavior and make statements like you do when it wasn't you or a family member involved or on the receiving end of an apparent injustice. But, that's OK - keep making your absentee generalizations about this event resorting to your usual stereotypes.


DougMacKenzie - 6/9/2015 at 11:05 PM

There is so much about this being reported in the local media that is not being reported in the national media. I have friends and relatives that live in McKinney, we go there all the time. They are saying there was a lot more going on during this incident than a teenage pool party. I'd suggest giving this a little time for all the information to come out. That being said, it is obvious this officer, the first one on the scene, was over amped, at least when that snippet of video is viewed.


LeglizHemp - 6/9/2015 at 11:23 PM

yes i have read that the DJ they hired was using social media to get more people to show up.

as far as the cop repeating himself after the girl was already down, i think thats a common police tactic. watch a few episodes of Cops, they do that all of the time. watch the guy getting choked out in NYC. i'm pretty sure they did that there.

barny fife was out of control but i would really like to know what happened before the cops got there and what happened before that video started.


BoytonBrother - 6/9/2015 at 11:33 PM

listen, there are a few bad apples in every bunch. I have a couple of close friends who are officers and I respect the force greatly. Police are not doing anything differently than they ever have - the only difference is that everyone has a camera, like Bhawk pointed out. Now every bad apple gets exposed, and none of the good gets noticed. It's a shame. It's crazy how we get divided over whether to acknowledge that a cop did something wrong.


BoytonBrother - 6/9/2015 at 11:35 PM

alloak, I agree that it was their fault. My point is that the cops would never have escalated anything if the group were white teenagers, IMO. The police chief was adamant that the cop was out of control from the moment he arrived, plain and simple.


BillyBlastoff - 6/10/2015 at 04:14 AM

Now that the cop resigned alloak abandoned this thread.

Strange.



{{{{{{{{{{{crickets}}}}}}}}}}}


Bhawk - 6/10/2015 at 02:58 PM

quote:
quote:
I continue to amazed at just how profoundly our society is being affected by the fact that everyone has a camera.

Are you saying that is good or bad?


Both, actually.

In this particular case, there's more to the situation, of course. The video in question doesn't come close to telling the entire story of what happened at that pool.

But...the isolated action of a cop throwing a 15 year old girl in a bikini to the ground, that's a pretty indelible image.

There's a lot of things that have gone on for hundreds of years that have never been captured on camera or video, that's all changing every second of every day.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 01:01 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Generally speaking, this boils down to race, just like Geller. If it's anti-jew, it's condemned by all. If it's anti Muslim, no problem. Black cop v white teen girl = lawsuit. White cop v black teen girl = "your fault for not obeying."

[Edited on 6/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]


But it IS their fault! The police are authorized and trained to use force against non-cooperative individuals. Hit the deck and keep your mouth shut and you won't have a problem. Why is this being debated? I don't care if the kid is white, black, or purple, don't be an idiot. Better yet, if you've already been asked to clear out you should already be somewhere else.


Many of those kids, both black and white, had passes to the pool and lived in the neighborhood. Since they were doing nothing wrong, the police had no business telling them to leave. You really seem to support a police state.


Why were the police called if nothing was wrong? Trespassing and fighting. Correct, it's a racially diverse neighborhood, but residents are not permitted to have more than two guests at the pool. However, many more non-residents showed up and started jumping the fence. A few fights broke out. The security guard was trying to get the situation under control but was badly outnumbered. That's when he called the police.

Residents reported a disturbance at the privately owned pool. There were reports of fighting, vandalism, and trespassing in the area when officers responded.

Nobody was doing anything wrong? That's one of the irritations. The police are called for a reason, namely that laws are being broken. But, that fact is seemingly forgotten when it's time to throw a cop under the bus.

Now somebody will come along and somehow translate this post into thinking I want a police state...........Whatever.















[Edited on 6/11/2015 by alloak41]


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 12:40 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I continue to amazed at just how profoundly our society is being affected by the fact that everyone has a camera.

Are you saying that is good or bad?


Both, actually.

In this particular case, there's more to the situation, of course. The video in question doesn't come close to telling the entire story of what happened at that pool.

But...the isolated action of a cop throwing a 15 year old girl in a bikini to the ground, that's a pretty indelible image.

There's a lot of things that have gone on for hundreds of years that have never been captured on camera or video, that's all changing every second of every day.


I agree it's partly bad.

Now what we have as a result are a few isolated cases conflated into some kind of massive problem, never mind the 99.92417% police encounters where there is no problem. The race merchants. activist politicians, and the media have ignited a huge blowback against the police based on a handful of racially charged incidents.

Now many don't think they have to obey the police, want to kill the police, ect. Thus, a much bigger problem rooted in the disrespect of law enforcement is causing a much bigger problem..

Great job, idiots. All you're doing is making the streets more dangerous.


gondicar - 6/11/2015 at 12:53 PM

Saw the lawyer for the cop interviewed this morning. She basically admitted he was wrong...said he had been on two "very stressful" suicide calls earlier in the day which drained him and caused him to let his emotions get the better of him.


DougMacKenzie - 6/11/2015 at 01:36 PM

I could not imagine being a cop right now. Knowing your every move could be filmed and scrutinized at a time when respect for your badge seems to be at an all time low and any hesitation could cost you your life.


heineken515 - 6/11/2015 at 01:38 PM

quote:
I could not imagine being a cop right now. Knowing your every move could be filmed and scrutinized at a time when respect for your badge seems to be at an all time low and any hesitation could cost you your life.


For example in the video of this incident, when he was trying to keep the girl down, those two males RUSHED up to him, in what looks like an aggressive manner - sure hindsight is 20/20, but what was that cop supposed to do about them? He had no idea if they were armed, intended to jump on him or who knows what.


heineken515 - 6/11/2015 at 02:04 PM

Just heard a new phrase (new to me anyhow) being thrown around about this: official oppression

As in "my client and I strongly object to this incident of official oppression and we will not be happy until this officer is fired and brought to trial."


Muleman1994 - 6/11/2015 at 03:43 PM

quote:
Just heard a new phrase (new to me anyhow) being thrown around about this: official oppression

As in "my client and I strongly object to this incident of official oppression and we will not be happy until this officer is fired and brought to trial."

______________________________________________________________________

The race hustlers and hate groups have to keep up the “official oppression”, “white privilege”, “no justice, no peace”, “police brutality” and more to avoid discussing black crime and the degrading of black culture.

As many police chiefs have said and the NYC Police Commissioner reiterated yesterday they want to hire more black police officers but too many blacks cannot pass a criminal background check or a drug test.

Not a problem of the white man’s making but whitey has to pay the bill.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 04:39 PM

quote:
Now what we have as a result are a few isolated cases conflated into some kind of massive problem, never mind the 99.92417% police encounters where there is no problem. The race merchants. activist politicians, and the media have ignited a huge blowback against the police based on a handful of racially charged incidents.

Now many don't think they have to obey the police, want to kill the police, ect. Thus, a much bigger problem rooted in the disrespect of law enforcement is causing a much bigger problem..


You're completely discounting any personal interaction anyone may have had with law enforcement. I've never lived in a high crime area and I've never been a minority, so I have really no basis to judge people in those areas when it comes to their experiences.

Ignited a huge "blowback?" In instances such a Ferguson, looked to me like smoldering powderkegs, waiting like a bomb due to cumulative treatment over many years.

There were 12 cops that showed up initially at the pool party, 11 of them still have their jobs. If everyone having a camera goes towards isolating those who betray the public trust by being an abusive part of law enforcement, then that can only be a good thing. One of my oldest friends is a cop, I asked him about this latest and his response was, "Idiot, and I'm not talking about the person in the bikini."


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 04:51 PM

quote:
One of my oldest friends is a cop, I asked him about this latest and his response was, "Idiot, and I'm not talking about the person in the bikini."


According to witnesses the girl had been asked to leave numerous times, did not comply, and should have no longer even been in the area. That's pretty stupid, but maybe your buddy didn't know.


Muleman1994 - 6/11/2015 at 05:00 PM

quote:
quote:
One of my oldest friends is a cop, I asked him about this latest and his response was, "Idiot, and I'm not talking about the person in the bikini."


According to witnesses the girl had been asked to leave numerous times, did not comply, and should have no longer even been in the area. That's pretty stupid, but maybe your buddy didn't know.

________________________________________________________________

Did you notice that the left-wing media is only showing the narrow and short view of the incident?

The full video shows the violence by the locals, both black and white, and goes on far longer than the snippet show by the main-stream media.
The main-stream media also edited out the audio of the insults and baiting thrown at the police officer but conveniently the audio re-appears when the girl is screaming for her mother.


gondicar - 6/11/2015 at 05:11 PM

quote:
quote:
Just heard a new phrase (new to me anyhow) being thrown around about this: official oppression

As in "my client and I strongly object to this incident of official oppression and we will not be happy until this officer is fired and brought to trial."

______________________________________________________________________

The race hustlers and hate groups have to keep up the “official oppression”, “white privilege”, “no justice, no peace”, “police brutality” and more to avoid discussing black crime and the degrading of black culture.

As many police chiefs have said and the NYC Police Commissioner reiterated yesterday they want to hire more black police officers but too many blacks cannot pass a criminal background check or a drug test.

Not a problem of the white man’s making but whitey has to pay the bill.



You are a racist pig.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 05:15 PM

Post removed. Just ain't worth the time or the negative energy.

[Edited on 6/11/2015 by Bhawk]


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 05:33 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
One of my oldest friends is a cop, I asked him about this latest and his response was, "Idiot, and I'm not talking about the person in the bikini."


According to witnesses the girl had been asked to leave numerous times, did not comply, and should have no longer even been in the area. That's pretty stupid, but maybe your buddy didn't know.


Got what she deserved, huh?

Conservatives are getting such a warm fuzzy outta that. Just love seeing a girl in a bikini get thrown around.

How many times have you watched it? Prolly on a loop, makes you laugh out loud, I'll bet.

Certain people should just know their place, right?


Ease up on the melodrama. It's not about what somebody deserved, knowing their place, or what conservatives do or don't do. It's a simple fact that if she does what the police had asked her it doesn't even get to that point. Why is this so difficult? It's like playing with matches and gasoline, getting burned, then blaming the gasoline.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 05:34 PM

You got all the answers, man. Have a nice day.


BillyBlastoff - 6/11/2015 at 05:44 PM

quote:
Ease up on the melodrama. It's not about what somebody deserved, knowing their place, or what conservatives do or don't do. It's a simple fact that if she does what the police had asked her it doesn't even get to that point. Why is this so difficult? It's like playing with matches and gasoline, getting burned, then blaming the gasoline.


11 of the 12 cops didn't beat her down. The cop that did resigned and his lawyer has apologized.

If he was so justified in his action why did he resign? Why has the lawyer apologized?

Don't bother answering alloak. You are as wrong as the cop in this matter.

It is obvious you believe in an unfettered police state. That's Fascism. You are an extreme right wing zealot. You can't help it.


BillyBlastoff - 6/11/2015 at 05:47 PM

So much for living in a democracy.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 06:18 PM

It's starting to get old. Time after time, the one common denominator in these cases is people not cooperating with the police.

The combatant law breaker becomes a victim that everybody is supposed to feel sorry for...while the police get trashed. Then, it becomes another big racial issue warranted or not, and the Rent-A-Mobs show up to destroy more property.

The cycle then repeats because resentment toward the police is festering -- while black leaders encourage disobedience, make threats, ignore responsibility, play up victimization -- leading to even less respect for law enforcement, and around and around we go.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 06:18 PM

"If the teenage girl listened, she wouldn't have been thrown to the ground."

Whats the point of this logic? That the onus falls on the teenager? That is blatant racism...if your teenage daughter was thrown to the ground with a knee in her back simply for not listening and leaving a scene, we'd all be outraged. But since it's a black teen, then good for them animals. Effing disgusting. Luckily, these old farts who think like this are slowly becoming a small minority as they die off.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 06:33 PM

quote:
If he was so justified in his action why did he resign? Why has the lawyer apologized?



First off, look closely and you'll find I haven't said he was justified in his action. I have merely pointed out the fact that the girl in the bikini had already been asked to leave numerous times and failed to comply. Had she done so it would have been avoided. Why is this is so difficult to grasp? If a cop repeatedly asks you to leave, clear out!

The resignation. You were honestly expecting something else? In this current environment? That chief was more than glad to throw one cop under the bus, as opposed to Sharpton and Company and the Rent-A-Riot showing up to destroy half of McKinney. No brainer.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 06:35 PM

Did the teenage girl commit any crime? Is it illegal to refuse to leave a public area when a cop tells you to? Anyway, i guess it doesn't matter for this thread since we've made our minds up. She clearly provoked the officer with her offensive words, so he had every right to put his hands on her. Oh wait.....


DougMacKenzie - 6/11/2015 at 06:39 PM

quote:
"If the teenage girl listened, she wouldn't have been thrown to the ground."

Whats the point of this logic? That the onus falls on the teenager? That is blatant racism...if your teenage daughter was thrown to the ground with a knee in her back simply for not listening and leaving a scene, we'd all be outraged. But since it's a black teen, then good for them animals. Effing disgusting. Luckily, these old farts who think like this are slowly becoming a small minority as they die off.


I have a masters degree in clinical psychology and twenty years of clinical experience. I have also worked in the Texas prison system as a Life Skills and DWI Intervention instructor, as well as spending the last eight years teaching science at our school district's disciplinary campus. I have a 17 year old daughter and a 14 year old son, and I'm here to tell you that if it was either of my kids getting thrown down by the cops in this situation the first conversation I'm having is with my kid about what they heck are they doing putting themselves in a situation like that with people involved in that kind of behavior to begin with. The next conversation I'm having is with my kid about why they did not follow police instructions. The third conversation I'm having is with my kid about the loss of privileges and consequences they are going to experience due to their poor choices. Then I might have a conversation with the city about the officer's response being out of proportion to the action of my kid. Then I'm right back with my kid having them apologize to the officer, the police force, and the community for their lack of respect and poor behavior. The onus for the behavior of my children and the consequences of their behavior is absolutely squarely on their shoulders, no ifs, ands or buts. You can call that whatever you want. I call it effective parenting.

[Edited on 6/11/2015 by DougMacKenzie]


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 06:43 PM

BB and BB, save your blood pressure. You're just two more low-info voters with nothing to offer but melodrama, you can't even dream of competing with the superior conservative intellects.

Relax, take a walk, put on some tunes. Leave the important matters to those who have the wisdom.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 06:44 PM

quote:
"If the teenage girl listened, she wouldn't have been thrown to the ground."

Whats the point of this logic? That the onus falls on the teenager? That is blatant racism...if your teenage daughter was thrown to the ground with a knee in her back simply for not listening and leaving a scene, we'd all be outraged. But since it's a black teen, then good for them animals. Effing disgusting. Luckily, these old farts who think like this are slowly becoming a small minority as they die off.


Are you kidding? I have a teenage daughter. First of all, I'd tell her if she was trespassing that probably wasn't a good idea and try not to do it anymore. Second, if a cop asks you to leave, keep your mouth shut and get the hell out of there! If she didn't, then you bet the onus falls on her. If she was light blue or green I'd tell her the same thing.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 06:46 PM

quote:
quote:
"If the teenage girl listened, she wouldn't have been thrown to the ground."

Whats the point of this logic? That the onus falls on the teenager? That is blatant racism...if your teenage daughter was thrown to the ground with a knee in her back simply for not listening and leaving a scene, we'd all be outraged. But since it's a black teen, then good for them animals. Effing disgusting. Luckily, these old farts who think like this are slowly becoming a small minority as they die off.


I have a masters degree in clinical psychology and twenty years of clinical experience. I have also worked in the Texas prison system as a Life Skills and DWI Intervention instructor, as well as spending the last eight years teaching science at our school district's disciplinary campus. I have a 17 year old daughter and a 14 year old son, and I'm here to tell you that if it was either of my kids getting thrown down by the cops in this situation the first conversation I'm having is with my kid about what they heck are they doing putting themselves in a situation like that with people involved in that kind of behavior to begin with. The next conversation I'm having is with my kid about why they did not follow police instructions. The third conversation I'm having is with my kid about the loss of privileges and consequences they are going to experience due to their poor choices. Then I might have a conversation with the city about the officer's response being out of proportion to the action of my kid. Then I'm right back with my kid having them apologize to the officer, the police force, and the community for their lack of respect and poor behavior. The onus for the behavior of my children and the consequences of their behavior is absolutely squarely on their shoulders, no ifs, ands or buts. You can call that whatever you want. I call it effective parenting.

[Edited on 6/11/2015 by DougMacKenzie]


Home Run.


BIGV - 6/11/2015 at 06:46 PM

I am in my fifties, never been arrested, never been accosted by the police. Been pulled over for traffic infractions more times than I can count, expired tags, no seat belt, speeding. I have been at the scene of parties that have gotten out of hand where the police have been called, been witness to bar fights, hassles at stadiums, concerts and what have you. I repeat, never spent a minute in Jail. My secret?.... When a Policeman asks me to do something?

I comply, immediately.


jkeller - 6/11/2015 at 06:57 PM

quote:
I am in my fifties, never been arrested, never been accosted by the police. Been pulled over for traffic infractions more times than I can count, expired tags, no seat belt, speeding. I have been at the scene of parties that have gotten out of hand where the police have been called, been witness to bar fights, hassles at stadiums, concerts and what have you. I repeat, never spent a minute in Jail. My secret?.... When a Policeman asks me to do something?

I comply, immediately.


You don't argue with him and tell him he is wrong? I am shocked.


gondicar - 6/11/2015 at 07:00 PM

I've now seen/heard so many versions of what happened leading up to the encounter in question that I am having a hard time keeping all these hypotheticals straight. Oh well, I guess I'll have to rely on the justice system to sort it out and then maybe eventually we'll know who to blame.

By the way, I agree with everything DougMac said. Still doesn't let the cop off the hook, and based on what I heard his lawyer say this morning, it would seem that he knows his actions were inappropriate.

[Edited on 6/11/2015 by gondicar]


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 07:01 PM

"If a cop asks you to leave, keep your mouth shut and get out of there!"

How nice. Just as our Founding Fathers hoped.

F the blacks and Muslims. They don't apply to our value system. Got it.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 07:04 PM

Bhawk, you are right. It's tough to debate when you start from one angle, and then it gets dumbed down after every response.


DougMacKenzie - 6/11/2015 at 07:06 PM

quote:
Bhawk, you are right. It's tough to debate when you start from one angle, and then it gets dumbed down after every response.

Whatever.


BIGV - 6/11/2015 at 07:18 PM

quote:
quote:
I am in my fifties, never been arrested, never been accosted by the police. Been pulled over for traffic infractions more times than I can count, expired tags, no seat belt, speeding. I have been at the scene of parties that have gotten out of hand where the police have been called, been witness to bar fights, hassles at stadiums, concerts and what have you. I repeat, never spent a minute in Jail. My secret?.... When a Policeman asks me to do something?

I comply, immediately.


You don't argue with him and tell him he is wrong? I am shocked.


Haha...Just about everyone else though!


BIGV - 6/11/2015 at 07:20 PM

quote:
"If a cop asks you to leave, keep your mouth shut and get out of there!"

How nice. Just as our Founding Fathers hoped.

F the blacks and Muslims. They don't apply to our value system. Got it.


Value system?...please. How about understanding English and the consequences of your chosen response?


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 08:06 PM

Indeed. The OP only has the word "racial" in it twice.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 08:18 PM

quote:
Indeed. The OP only has the word "racial" in it twice.


Pretty sure he was talking about comments on the McKinney Massacre. The OP was written days before that even occurred.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 08:20 PM

quote:
quote:
"If a cop asks you to leave, keep your mouth shut and get out of there!"

How nice. Just as our Founding Fathers hoped.

F the blacks and Muslims. They don't apply to our value system. Got it.


Value system?...please. How about understanding English and the consequences of your chosen response?


Hello.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 08:22 PM

quote:
quote:
Indeed. The OP only has the word "racial" in it twice.

The OP is irrelevant at this point. Topics shift. Nobody is talking about Ferguson, or race. Except BB.

I thought you took your ball and went home.


I'm still here, just don't choose to get worked up about useless interactions as much as I used to. Utterly pointless. Had a slip-up earlier, I'll try harder.

Man, you sound familiar. You come around before 2012? I could be wrong, though, that happens a lot.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 08:25 PM

quote:
quote:
Indeed. The OP only has the word "racial" in it twice.


Pretty sure he was talking about comments on the McKinney Massacre. The OP was written days before that even occurred.


Hey man, I'm all low-info melodramatic. Hard to keep this stuff straight. Good thing there's a smart guy like you around to keep things on the correct path.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 08:30 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Indeed. The OP only has the word "racial" in it twice.

The OP is irrelevant at this point. Topics shift. Nobody is talking about Ferguson, or race. Except BB.

I thought you took your ball and went home.


I'm still here, just don't choose to get worked up about useless interactions as much as I used to. Utterly pointless. Had a slip-up earlier, I'll try harder.

Man, you sound familiar. You come around before 2012? I could be wrong, though, that happens a lot.

Still here but you're just trying to score cheapshots now. Anyhow...


You certainly do work hard on keeping score, good job!


BillyBlastoff - 6/11/2015 at 08:58 PM

So I guess all you folks who think the out of work cop was right also think gunning those kids down at Kent State was appropriate. They should have just picked up their flowers and protest signs and gone to class.

And I'm sure you think it was OK that those kids at Jackson State were gunned down.


alloak41 - 6/11/2015 at 09:50 PM

And out come the straw horses. Never would have guessed.


Bhawk - 6/11/2015 at 09:51 PM

Low-info melodrama! You nailed it!


BillyBlastoff - 6/11/2015 at 09:55 PM

I know Police officers have a really hard job. I admire and applaud their service. The work really hard for little money in a job they choose. They were trained for that job and that training and their paycheck makes them professionals. They need to act accordingly.

The last twenty years has brought major changes to our police programs. I don't think anyone here will deny that our Citizens On Patrol (COPs) have been, and continue to be more militarized.

I'm personally not OK with these changes.

The militarization of our police departments makes me think it is more important that individual police officers act with professionalism. Sometimes that means showing some restraint.

I agree with the good parents who would discipline their children for their outrageous behavior. I don't believe that any of you would be OK with your teen age daughter being slammed to the ground.


DougMacKenzie - 6/11/2015 at 10:44 PM

quote:
I know Police officers have a really hard job. I admire and applaud their service. The work really hard for little money in a job they choose. They were trained for that job and that training and their paycheck makes them professionals. They need to act accordingly.

The last twenty years has brought major changes to our police programs. I don't think anyone here will deny that our Citizens On Patrol (COPs) have been, and continue to be more militarized.

I'm personally not OK with these changes.

The militarization of our police departments makes me think it is more important that individual police officers act with professionalism. Sometimes that means showing some restraint.

I agree with the good parents who would discipline their children for their outrageous behavior. I don't believe that any of you would be OK with your teen age daughter being slammed to the ground.

Believe what you want. I told you exactly what I would do with my kids in a previous post. Police officers have had to increase their firepower and capability to respond to the increases in firepower and capability on the street. It does no good to take a snub nosed revolver to an Uzi fight. Equating Kent State and Jackson State to McKinney is ludicrous.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 11:11 PM

quote:
Value system?...please. How about understanding English and the consequences of your chosen response?


The same could be said about cops understanding the law, and the consequences of THEIR actions. Works both ways....just depends on what perspective you have.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 11:14 PM

The kids were surely wrong for not listening...but they are kids, which is why cops should be expected to be the responsible one. And for the cop that got fired, did you see his barrell roll for no reason whatsoever? He was out of control from the outset, according to his boss, and remained out of control throughout, according to his boss, and is seen doing a military-style, completely unnecessary barrell-roll. Could that one particular cop have gotten to excited and do something wrong too? Could there possible be 2 wrongs???? Some here don't seem to think that's possible. I can admit the kids were "wrong" for not listening....but will the conservatives here admit that the cop did something wrong? I highly doubt it, as they have proven here in this thread. Says a lot about them more than anything else.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 11:23 PM

quote:
Wow. You obviously weren't raised to respect authority. I bet you're the type to run your mouth to a cop while he's Trying to do his job. Am I right? Not me, I don't get in to trouble but if I did I'd keep my damn mouth shut. And you would NEVER see me or any of my kids getting their asses kicked by cops on YouTube. Impossible. It could never happen.

BTW you're the only one talking about race. I don't think race matters here to anyone but you. Something to think about.



No, I do respect authority. Whenever I am pulled over, I say "yes sir, no sir", and admit what I did wrong, because I know it usually gets me out of the ticket. And I would also obey the cops if they tell me to leave, because I don't want any trouble. But I don't expect everyone to be like me - I insist on analyzing the actual real world we live in, and then form my opinions based on that....so when I think about other cultures, education levels, and social classes, I would never expect everyone to react the same way. Because we would do that, does that excuse the cop in your opinion?

As for your comment about me bringing up race....I'm not sure I understand the point. Are you saying that the other posters here do not consider race when forming their opinions just because they don't put it in writing? Just curious.

As for your kids....HAHAHAH, I've heard that so many times from so many parents....meanwhile they are getting drunk and high on a regular basis. Too funny.


BoytonBrother - 6/11/2015 at 11:26 PM

quote:
What does it say about them?


To me, it shows they don't really have the courage of their own convictions, nor does it show they possess humility, which is a very nice trait to have.


BillyBlastoff - 6/11/2015 at 11:34 PM

Bottom line the cop resigned. Over and out. Done.

The city will settle with the family. Hopefully the police department will be more careful regarding who they hire in the future.


BillyBlastoff - 6/11/2015 at 11:40 PM

quote:
Drinking and smoking pot? No, it takes a special sort of screwed up delinquent child to find themselves one minute AT A POOL PARTY and the next minute getting thrown around by cops. Most kids would never find themselves in this position. Mine included.


I had two big parties at my Pop's house in Fort Walton Beach in '77 and '78. I never invited more than 30 or 40 kids, but somehow, word got out and more than 100 kids showed up. Cars were parked all over the street. There was loud music. Pot was smoked and gallons of hunch punch were consumed. Cops showed up at both. Kids were chased out back, over the fence, and through the woods at both parties. Most of those kids are now respected members of the community.

Me too in fact.

I don't think anything new or overtly dangerous was happening at the pool party.


BoytonBrother - 6/12/2015 at 12:19 AM

quote:
Get a new line of questioning, dude. The current one is silly.


quote:
you're the one calling people racist in a context which has nothing to do with race. More silliness.


What was silly of me was believing you were a serious poster, but it appears as if you are just another Muleman. For the record, nothing you say ever bothers me, not one bit.....not ever since the time I absolutely slaughtered you the first time you tried to debate me. It's amazing how fast you unravel.

Where the F is Fujirich? It'd be nice to hear an intelligent POV for once. Maybe I'll start a "Please Come Back Fuji" thread.


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