Thread: Trump and the NFL

fensranger - 9/25/2017 at 08:10 PM

any thoughts on what went on yesterday.

I still believe kneeling down during the anthem is wrong. The other protests of standing arm in arm were acceptable as far as I was concerned and warranted.

Not going on the field is also disrespectful to the fans and people who support the league as advertisers etc. This is a business and the players make their livings from the NFL.

This is very sensitive and everyone has an opinion. Trump for a change was not that wrong IMO in his opinion about kneeling. It is disrespectful to the country we all live in. A protest such as holding hands in solidarity is OK in my opinion but not kneeling.

I was at the Jets game and did not have an issue in how the teams handled it. But reading some of the others ?????

I guess the Steelers stayed in the locker room all day as they couldn't even beat the lowly Bears.


pops42 - 9/25/2017 at 08:51 PM

trump should stay out of football. these players are exercising their right to the first amendment, NFL commissioner is OK with it, as well as many coaches. they are not disrespecting the flag, or any veterans, like many racist trump supporters will have you believe.


fensranger - 9/25/2017 at 08:56 PM

i think kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful despite what anyone says. There are other ways to express solidarity about a cause then disrespect or insult an awful lot of people who feel very differently about this.

Kneeling during the national anthem is as disrespectful to many as name calling or making racial or ethnic comments.


pops42 - 9/25/2017 at 09:01 PM

quote:
i think kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful despite what anyone says. There are other ways to express solidarity about a cause then disrespect or insult an awful lot of people who feel very differently about this.

Kneeling during the national anthem is as disrespectful to many as name calling or making racial or ethnic comments.
Think what you want, many disagree.


ssepr - 9/25/2017 at 09:35 PM

Trump is disepectful to the human race.


LeglizHemp - 9/25/2017 at 10:04 PM

Any employee of any business thats disparages this country should be forced to be jobless and homeless and sent to a re-education camp.

(SARC)


tbomike - 9/25/2017 at 10:19 PM

quote:
i think kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful despite what anyone says. There are other ways to express solidarity about a cause then disrespect or insult an awful lot of people who feel very differently about this.

Kneeling during the national anthem is as disrespectful to many as name calling or making racial or ethnic comments.


Who made you the arbiter of how people can or should protest?

Obviously lots of people agree with you and lots don't. So?


bird72 - 9/25/2017 at 10:49 PM

I prefer that people don't interject politics into sports.

I also prefer people don't interject politics into music.

Music can sometimes be interjected into sports.

Sports never works well interjected into music.

IMO


porkchopbob - 9/25/2017 at 11:21 PM

If you have a bigger problem with your fellow citizens exercising their freedom to peacefully protest than you do with a President who publicly condemns that freedom, yet won't condemn his violent Nazi supporters, then you don't understand what the National Anthem celebrates in the first place (it's not just about bombs). Yesterday NFL players protested because they were directly attacked by a President (which is totally nuts and abnormal, by the way) and they have every right to peacefully respond. Anyone upset by their response is only paying attention to the how and not the what.


pops42 - 9/25/2017 at 11:35 PM

quote:
I prefer that people don't interject politics into sports.

I also prefer people don't interject politics into music.

Music can sometimes be interjected into sports.

Sports never works well interjected into music.

IMO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04KQydlJ-qc


JimSheridan - 9/25/2017 at 11:36 PM

The Supreme Court made it clear in the 1940s that people don't have to stand for the flag.

I wish these players had found a different way to protest, but it's their right.

Trump embarrassed himself with his speech, but it fired up his base, and it got the media going, so it makes sense that he would once again generate outrage to cover up his ongoing issues.


Fretsman - 9/25/2017 at 11:48 PM

I am disgusted with the NFL (No F'n Logic). I think it's moronic and misguided. I will not support them or their sponsors. It's a false narrative. 3 more African Americans shot dead this weekend in Chicago. Is THAT why the Steelers were afraid to come out of the locker room? Only the honorable stood hand on heart for the National Anthem.

The 3 dead brought the years total of shot and killed in gang violence to 500 in Chicago. "500" just in Chicago. Why don't any of these a-holes go to their inner cities and preach family values, Fathers taking care of their children, staying in school and off the streets. The police are the victims and yet cops as pigs socks actually exist are a product and then they're worn. BLM? That's what the NFL is crawling in bed with? What a joke. "When 5 cops shot and killed in Dallas the NFL bans any team tribute to honor them, but allows this. They have become the "pigs". The police are diverse, they're mostly military as we want composed trained individuals to respond to emergencies. They have seen the trauma of the world. When we need them they come, for loved ones passings to "shots fired" reports. When the B.O.L.O.'s (be on the lookout) and APB's (all points bulletins) describes certain individuals it's in the public interest to stop those who fit the description. If the witnesses called in scrawny white kid with a pink Mohawk shooting people, EVERY scrawny white kid with a pink Mohawk needs to be stopped and investigated. Is that not common sense? A beautiful young black police officer was just assassinated in NYC a few months ago. She was not only a police officer, she was also a single mother of 2 sweet kids. Where was the outrage when a black man walked up and shot her in the head point blank for no reason while she sat in her car on a night shift trying to make ends meet. I take a knee to the stupidity of it all.

Promote responsibility, don't have 10 kids with 5 different women and abandon them all. You just destroyed lives not created. Promote staying in school and being responsible American citizens not American burdens. Antifa? I'm shedding tears for what this country once was and to what it's becoming. I take a knee to the NFL and it's lost cause of lost causes. Misguided buffoonery. F' em.

God Bless the USA and it's Men and Women who serve proudly and sadly suffer due to all this crap.



....................................





[Edited on 9/26/2017 by Fretsman]


StratDal - 9/25/2017 at 11:59 PM

Trump is all about Trump. Hook, line, and s(t)inker.

I guess things can't be all bad in the good ol' USA when people are complaining right or wrong about how professional athletes address the Star Spangled Banner. Just eat, drink, and be merry... and spin lots of ABB


BrerRabbit - 9/26/2017 at 02:43 AM

This photo of a kneeling 97-year-old World War II veteran quickly went viral after the man’s grandson posted it to Twitter.



"His concern was that the president was hiding behind patriotism and the flag,” the grandson, 38-year-old Brennan Gilmore, said. “To him it's the value those symbols from the flag represent, and by suppressing those the president was undermining those core values and he didn't like it.”


WaitinForRain - 9/26/2017 at 03:19 AM

A whole bunch of people have their panties in knots over the sit/stand anthem maneuvers.
Sitting or standing during the anthem is PROTECTED FREE EXPRESSION and HURTS EXACTLY NOBODY.

What a bunch of whining babies blowing up social media.

The English Crown treated the colonies as a throwaway source of labor and money. Same as corporations treat us now. The Brits were overthrown by people who were tired of being OPPRESSED

If you think black oppression in this country is a mirage, YOU ARE TRIPPING.

The NFL has had a damaged, overpriced product for some time. WAY MORE WHINY BABIES over the anthem than domestic violence/abusers in the NFL or CTE.


pops42 - 9/26/2017 at 03:50 AM

I see several morons burning their tickets?, who are they hurting?, the owners and the players got their money.


Fretsman - 9/26/2017 at 05:08 AM

Some folks see reality, some folks see what they're told reality is, some folks are seeking answers, and some folks are Waitin For Brains.


BIGV - 9/26/2017 at 05:58 AM

Up until 2009 the players did not take the field until after the Anthem, solution? Return to that standard. No protests, no one is offended and fans do not have to be faced with political B.S. on a Sunday afternoon.


matt05 - 9/26/2017 at 12:37 PM

quote:
Up until 2009 the players did not take the field until after the Anthem, solution? Return to that standard. No protests, no one is offended and fans do not have to be faced with political B.S. on a Sunday afternoon.


i was going to say this exact same thing. what happened was the nfl actually thought more people would turn the game on earlier if the players were on the field for the anthem. they wanted more viewers and of course you can add some commercial breaks because of this


porkchopbob - 9/26/2017 at 12:50 PM

quote:
Some folks see reality, some folks see what they're told reality is, some folks are seeking answers, and some folks are Waitin For Brains.


Except she isn't wrong and you're way off the ranch (hint: Sunday's protest was against the President)

All of the people who burned their own expensive jerseys and tickets might want to direct their energy and attention toward aiding our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico who are currently devastated. But there are people who would rather allow themselves to get riled up by President ManBabyChild, who is still butthurt because he couldn't afford the Buffalo Bills, on a topic that was mostly over with.


slothrop8 - 9/26/2017 at 12:55 PM

How about just doing away with the anthems before domestic sporting events period. It serves no purpose other than to cast the event as some sort of patriotic spectacle that has no relevance or connection to the event itself. When a crowd gathered for an ABB concert - any national anthem before that event? How about when you go to the movies - they fire up the national anthem for everyone to stand for before a screening of IT? No, of course not - because the anthem has nothing whatsoever to do with those events, and it has nothing to do with sports events either. You want to play both countries anthems before Canada plays the US in hockey or something - fine I guess. There's at least some geopolitical connection to the nature of the event. I can do without it, but I can at least see some relevance. National anthem before the Orioles play baseball against the Pirates tonight? What's the point?


StratDal - 9/26/2017 at 01:14 PM

quote:
How about just doing away with the anthems before domestic sporting events period. It serves no purpose other than to cast the event as some sort of patriotic spectacle that has no relevance or connection to the event itself. When a crowd gathered for an ABB concert - any national anthem before that event? How about when you go to the movies - they fire up the national anthem for everyone to stand for before a screening of IT? No, of course not - because the anthem has nothing whatsoever to do with those events, and it has nothing to do with sports events either. You want to play both countries anthems before Canada plays the US in hockey or something - fine I guess. There's at least some geopolitical connection to the nature of the event. I can do without it, but I can at least see some relevance. National anthem before the Orioles play baseball against the Pirates tonight? What's the point?


+1 I've thought that for a while especially when someone performing it does so obnoxiously IMO. Many Americans take their professional sports too seriously. Like my friend said yesterday, I watch football for escape. Keep politics etc. out of it.


piper - 9/26/2017 at 01:34 PM

It's completely disrespectful, and is accomplishing nothing. It was so embarrassing watching the game from London on Sunday morning and seeing the kneeling. how about those who want to protest all wear a different color glove, or an arm band, etc. How about donating money or game checks to charities that educate people of their issues or concerns, or that actually do something. and why is this seem to only be going on in nfl? yes trump handled it wrong, and should stay out of it, but he's not wrong. I feel like were on the verge of nuclear war w N korea, maybe he should concentrate on that.


stormyrider - 9/26/2017 at 01:52 PM

so - what is the meaning behind the flag?
it is different to everyone but to me, it stands for, among other things, a country that allows for:

freedom of expression
the right to protest peacefullly
the right to criticize the government
a nation where everyone is equal under the law

we are lucky to be living in a great country with these rights protected. There are some countries that if you speak against the government, you disappear. Sunday was another form of peaceful protest, in response to comments made by Trump, who once again sounded like he was out to pick a fight.
Feel free to disagree.


btw, Trump's comments about the safety rules in the NFL shows a lack of respect for the players health, which imo is far more insulting
[Edited on 9/26/2017 by stormyrider]

[Edited on 9/26/2017 by stormyrider]


piper - 9/26/2017 at 02:47 PM

...though a wise man once said...


blackey - 9/26/2017 at 02:54 PM

I'm done with the NFL. Not going to watch on TV either. The thousands dead in the World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, 9/11 means using the flag and the anthem as a means of protest is grossly dispresptful to people of all races who died or permanently injured wearing the uniform.

Hold up a protest sign in the end zone or keep a touch down football and donated it to an inner city sports team with a protest note taped to it. That kind of thing.

I'm into Aaron Judge right now anyway. He's the most exciting player in sports right now.

If I can function without live ABB I can skip my football games. Not using my two tickets will be a big financial pill to swallow though.


stormyrider - 9/26/2017 at 04:29 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protes ts.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading& module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region& ;WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

quote:

Eric Reid: Why Colin Kaepernick and I Decided to Take a Knee
By ERIC REIDSEPT. 25, 2017


In early 2016, I began paying attention to reports about the incredible number of unarmed black people being killed by the police. The posts on social media deeply disturbed me, but one in particular brought me to tears: the killing of Alton Sterling in my hometown Baton Rouge, La. This could have happened to any of my family members who still live in the area. I felt furious, hurt and hopeless. I wanted to do something, but didn’t know what or how to do it. All I knew for sure is that I wanted it to be as respectful as possible.

A few weeks later, during preseason, my teammate Colin Kaepernick chose to sit on the bench during the national anthem to protest police brutality. To be honest, I didn’t notice at the time, and neither did the news media. It wasn’t until after our third preseason game on Aug. 26, 2016, that his protest gained national attention, and the backlash against him began.

That’s when my faith moved me to take action. I looked to James 2:17, which states, “Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” I knew I needed to stand up for what is right.

I approached Colin the Saturday before our next game to discuss how I could get involved with the cause but also how we could make a more powerful and positive impact on the social justice movement. We spoke at length about many of the issues that face our community, including systemic oppression against people of color, police brutality and the criminal justice system. We also discussed how we could use our platform, provided to us by being professional athletes in the N.F.L., to speak for those who are voiceless.

After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.


It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.




It should go without saying that I love my country and I’m proud to be an American. But, to quote James Baldwin, “exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.”

I can’t find words that appropriately express how heartbroken I am to see the constant smears against Colin, a person who helped start the movement with only the very best of intentions. We are talking about a man who helped to orchestrate a commercial planeful of food and supplies for famine-stricken Somalia. A man who has invested his time and money into needy communities here at home. A man I am proud to call my brother, who should be celebrated for his courage to seek change on important issues. Instead, to this day, he is unemployed and portrayed as a radical un-American who wants to divide our country.

Anybody who has a basic knowledge of football knows that his unemployment has nothing to do with his performance on the field. It’s a shame that the league has turned its back on a man who has done only good. I am aware that my involvement in this movement means that my career may face the same outcome as Colin’s. But to quote the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., “A time comes when silence is betrayal.” And I choose not to betray those who are being oppressed.

I have too often seen our efforts belittled with statements like “He should have listened to the officer,” after watching an unarmed black person get shot, or “There is no such thing as white privilege” and “Racism ended years ago.” We know that racism and white privilege are both very much alive today.

And it’s disheartening and infuriating that President Trump has referred to us with slurs but the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville, Va., as “very fine people.” His remarks are a clear attempt to deepen the rift that we’ve tried so hard to mend.

I am nevertheless encouraged to see my colleagues and other public figures respond to the president’s remarks with solidarity with us. It is paramount that we take control of the story behind our movement, which is that we seek equality for all Americans, no matter their race or gender.


1321
COMMENTS
What we need now is numbers. Some people acknowledge the issues we face yet remain silent bystanders. Not only do we need more of our fellow black and brown Americans to stand with us, but also people of other races.

I refuse to be one of those people who watches injustices yet does nothing. I want to be a man my children and children’s children can be proud of, someone who faced adversity and tried to make a positive impact on the world, a person who, 50 years from now, is remembered for standing for what was right, even though it was not the popular or easy choice.

Eric Reid (@E_Reid35) is a safety for the San Francisco 49ers.


KCJimmy - 9/26/2017 at 04:44 PM

quote:
Some folks see reality, some folks see what they're told reality is, some folks are seeking answers, and some folks are Waitin For Brains.
Gotta admit this made me laugh!


robslob - 9/26/2017 at 04:48 PM

Forget what you think about Trump's stance on the protests. Calling protesters "sons of bitches" is as low as a U.S. President has EVER gone. What an example he is to elementary school children.


BrerRabbit - 9/26/2017 at 05:28 PM

He actually said "Sons of b*tches"? Really? Sorry, I am done dong searches on trump's antics, it always opens a toxic waste dump.


goldtop - 9/26/2017 at 06:01 PM

quote:
He actually said "Sons of b*tches"? Really? Sorry, I am done dong searches on trump's antics, it always opens a toxic waste dump.


Yes he did at his Alabama rally last Friday...But Neo Nazi's and KKK had some really nice people with them


revonah - 9/26/2017 at 08:53 PM

I like the topic. Whipping Post is where we should be discussing this.


tbomike - 9/26/2017 at 09:40 PM

quote:
Up until 2009 the players did not take the field until after the Anthem, solution? Return to that standard. No protests, no one is offended and fans do not have to be faced with political B.S. on a Sunday afternoon.


That is not correct. The only change in 2009 was evening games. Players had always been on the field for your Sunday afternoon games and starting in 2009 they also were for the prime time games.


Fretsman - 9/26/2017 at 11:12 PM

quote:
I like the topic. Whipping Post is where we should be discussing this.


It's Anything Goes? It also happens to be the only spot I visit here.



.......................................

[Edited on 9/27/2017 by Fretsman]


BIGV - 9/27/2017 at 12:18 AM

quote:
quote:
Up until 2009 the players did not take the field until after the Anthem, solution? Return to that standard. No protests, no one is offended and fans do not have to be faced with political B.S. on a Sunday afternoon.


That is not correct. The only change in 2009 was evening games. Players had always been on the field for your Sunday afternoon games and starting in 2009 they also were for the prime time games.


I stand corrected.

Keep them off the field until the Anthem is finished or they can act like grown men



I can't help but wonder how many in the NFL would choose to take a knee if confronted with this little chunk of reality?


matt05 - 9/27/2017 at 03:36 AM

quote:
quote:
Up until 2009 the players did not take the field until after the Anthem, solution? Return to that standard. No protests, no one is offended and fans do not have to be faced with political B.S. on a Sunday afternoon.


That is not correct. The only change in 2009 was evening games. Players had always been on the field for your Sunday afternoon games and starting in 2009 they also were for the prime time games.



that can't be true as mike golic said when he played the players didn't even have to be on the field for the anthem. he made no mention of specific times the game were played


jszfunk - 9/27/2017 at 10:39 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/09/geauga_sheriff_prohibits_d eput.html


Geauga sheriff prohibits deputies from working Browns games over protest during anthem


CHARDON, Ohio -- The Geauga County Sheriff on Tuesday barred any of his deputies from working off-duty security at future Cleveland Browns games because of their protest during the national anthem.

Sheriff Scott A. Hildenbrand in a memo to his employees posted on Facebook said the Browns protest, which came in response to President Donald Trump's statements that NFL players who kneel during the national anthem should be fired, was "disrespectful" to veterans and police officers alike.

"I'm concerned when the main act stands in front of the crowd, before the game even starts, and commits a blatant disrespectful act towards our flag, our Country, our Veterans and our first responders," Hildenbrand's memo said. "If they do not have respect for us and our Country only bad things will come of that. We will not be a part of these activities."

Trump's comments about the protests drew condemnation from NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and several team owners, including Jimmy and Dee Haslam.

At least 20 Browns players kneeled during the national anthem prior to Sunday's game in Indianapolis. Some Colts fans jeered the players. The league-wide protests started last season by Colin Kaepernick are in response to several social issues including racial inequality and police brutality. Those demonstrations have never directly targeted the flag or the U.S. military.

Hildenbrand wrote that he attended Sunday's game with friends and was upset by the protest and the league's response.

"The fact that the team owners and NFL Commissioner condone this activity very much upsets me," Hildenbrand wrote. "As far as I am concerned almost the entire league disrespected every veteran that ever fought or died for this Country. These protests are not about unity, unity was the other 70,000 fans that stood."

Hildenbrand also wrote that he's a season-ticket holder and will not attend Browns games the rest of the season.

It was the second time Browns players protested during the national anthem this season. Eleven players kneeled during the national anthem during a preseason game in Cleveland.

Police officers, firefighters and EMS workers dropped out of a pregame ceremony during the national anthem after the protests. The Browns, players and police officials later came up with a plan to have officers run out of the tunnel with the players and link arms with them during the national anthem.


Fretsman - 9/27/2017 at 12:41 PM

quote:

" These protests are not about unity, unity was with the other 70,000 fans that stood."



Amen Sir.


porkchopbob - 9/27/2017 at 01:58 PM

quote:
quote:

" These protests are not about unity, unity was with the other 70,000 fans that stood."



Amen Sir.


The fans' jobs and freedom weren't directly attacked by the President and called "sons of b1tches". Kneeling was old news until Trump needlessly dug it up. On Sunday, the players and owners were unified against him.


amyjared - 9/27/2017 at 02:44 PM

So let me see if I understand this:
A bunch of white people telling African American's how they should or shouldn't protest?

It's a protest of racial injustice, not an attack on the flag, the anthem or veterans.

It's non-violent, it's patriotic (protest is what our country was founded on) and it's most effective: don't believe me? Check out this thread, FB, the news, etc!!

Did I miss anything?


Pete - 9/27/2017 at 04:53 PM

quote:
quote:
Up until 2009 the players did not take the field until after the Anthem, solution? Return to that standard. No protests, no one is offended and fans do not have to be faced with political B.S. on a Sunday afternoon.


i was going to say this exact same thing. what happened was the nfl actually thought more people would turn the game on earlier if the players were on the field for the anthem. they wanted more viewers and of course you can add some commercial breaks because of this


Not so sure this is true. Last year my son's Boy Scout Troop was chosen to be Color Guard during the Anthem prior the Jets/Seahawks game. Told family and friends to watch. It was never aired. The network went directly from the pregame show to the start of the game.


Pete - 9/27/2017 at 04:59 PM

quote:
It's completely disrespectful, and is accomplishing nothing. It was so embarrassing watching the game from London on Sunday morning and seeing the kneeling. how about those who want to protest all wear a different color glove, or an arm band, etc. How about donating money or game checks to charities that educate people of their issues or concerns, or that actually do something. and why is this seem to only be going on in nfl? yes trump handled it wrong, and should stay out of it, but he's not wrong. I feel like were on the verge of nuclear war w N korea, maybe he should concentrate on that.


Not happening. The NFL would fine the players for uniform violations.


goldtop - 9/27/2017 at 08:14 PM

quote:
So let me see if I understand this:
A bunch of white people telling African American's how they should or shouldn't protest?

It's a protest of racial injustice, not an attack on the flag, the anthem or veterans.

It's non-violent, it's patriotic (protest is what our country was founded on) and it's most effective: don't believe me? Check out this thread, FB, the news, etc!!

Did I miss anything?


Nope,...you got it....But you're not an angry white guy who feels so oppressed by his inability to use racial slurs freely because its demands "Political correctness"...when Political correctness is really just a hint at being civil!!!....We don't want to be civil...isn't that obvious by who got put in the office

I didn't like when Kap first did it....but after all the BS we've gone through with Trump....I'm all in for those who chose to express their view in probably one of the most non-violent ways you can....Taking a knee is usually a sign of respect...but I guess we forgot about that....how many times have you seen a player on the ground and guys on both sides on their knee in prayer......

How many of you were taught to kneel in prayer???....How many of you kneel at the casket of a loved one??....My family does....might not be what everyone does but kneeling is a sign of respect.....

Guys kneel in front of the woman they intend to marry when asking...is that a sign of disrespect??

It was a X-Green Beret that told them kneeling was a sign of respect

Here is what Eric Reid said about his support of Kap...

"After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy."


JimSheridan - 9/27/2017 at 11:54 PM

You offend Jews if you say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy holidays."
You offend Catholics if you wear a hat in church.
You offend soldiers if you kneel during the anthem.

It's all political correctness, kids.


Work out this statement: "Men died to protect your right to exercise freedom of expression, so you better NOT exercise your freedom of expression."


Bhawk - 9/28/2017 at 12:13 AM

quote:
You offend Jews if you say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy holidays."
You offend Catholics if you wear a hat in church.
You offend soldiers if you kneel during the anthem.


One of these is not like the other.


goldtop - 9/28/2017 at 02:47 AM

quote:
You offend Jews if you say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy holidays."
You offend Catholics if you wear a hat in church.
You offend soldiers if you kneel during the anthem.

It's all political correctness, kids.


Work out this statement: "Men died to protect your right to exercise freedom of expression, so you better NOT exercise your freedom of expression."


I guess you didn't read that it was a veteran that told them to kneel because it was a sign of respect...How about the 97 year old WWII vet that took a knee...he wasn't offended....No only angry Trump supporters that don't want freedom of speech in a peaceful way....they prefer running over innocent women as a display of freedom of speech....


stormyrider - 9/28/2017 at 03:41 PM

Interesting take on this. I think this group has a libertarian pov, fwiw

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPolitics/videos/1719676148063868/


adhill58 - 9/28/2017 at 04:46 PM

People burn the tickets they they already paid for to "boycott" the NFL because some players "disrespected" service members while they (the protesting players) all have explicitly said they mean no disrespect to service members.

Yet the same people support someone (Trump) who explicitly disrespected John McCain, who is a service member who endured five years of torture in a war that Trump dodged, to be the person who makes the decisions that put service members' lives at risk.

How is this a logical set of circumstances?

[Edited on 9/28/2017 by adhill58]


porkchopbob - 9/28/2017 at 05:04 PM

quote:
People burn the tickets they they already paid for to "boycott" the NFL because some players "disrespected" service members while they (the protesting players) all have explicitly said they mean no disrespect to service members.

Yet the same people support someone (Trump) who explicitly disrespected John McCain, who is a service member who endured five years of torture in a war that Trump dodged, to be the person who makes the decisions that put service members' lives at risk.

How is this a logical set of circumstances?



Agreed. How about this:

US Troops fight against and defeat Nazis in WWII. Nazi law required citizens salute during their anthem (FDR responds by changing the traditional Bellamy salute to a hand over his heart during the anthem). Today, President Trump doesn't condemn Nazi violence nor his Nazi supporters, but he does go out of his way to condemn citizens who have the freedom to take a knee during the anthem if they so choose. In response, many NFL players protest him by taking a knee. This angers people who have paid hundreds of dollars to wear another man's work shirt, so they have a tantrum and burn their expensive shirt, claiming patriotism.


wearly89 - 9/28/2017 at 07:00 PM

quote:
I prefer that people don't interject politics into sports.

I also prefer people don't interject politics into music.

Music can sometimes be interjected into sports.

Sports never works well interjected into music.

IMO
Finally, we can agree!


wearly89 - 9/28/2017 at 07:14 PM

quote:
I am disgusted with the NFL (No F'n Logic). I think it's moronic and misguided. I will not support them or their sponsors. It's a false narrative. 3 more African Americans shot dead this weekend in Chicago. Is THAT why the Steelers were afraid to come out of the locker room? Only the honorable stood hand on heart for the National Anthem.

The 3 dead brought the years total of shot and killed in gang violence to 500 in Chicago. "500" just in Chicago. Why don't any of these a-holes go to their inner cities and preach family values, Fathers taking care of their children, staying in school and off the streets. The police are the victims and yet cops as pigs socks actually exist are a product and then they're worn. BLM? That's what the NFL is crawling in bed with? What a joke. "When 5 cops shot and killed in Dallas the NFL bans any team tribute to honor them, but allows this. They have become the "pigs". The police are diverse, they're mostly military as we want composed trained individuals to respond to emergencies. They have seen the trauma of the world. When we need them they come, for loved ones passings to "shots fired" reports. When the B.O.L.O.'s (be on the lookout) and APB's (all points bulletins) describes certain individuals it's in the public interest to stop those who fit the description. If the witnesses called in scrawny white kid with a pink Mohawk shooting people, EVERY scrawny white kid with a pink Mohawk needs to be stopped and investigated. Is that not common sense? A beautiful young black police officer was just assassinated in NYC a few months ago. She was not only a police officer, she was also a single mother of 2 sweet kids. Where was the outrage when a black man walked up and shot her in the head point blank for no reason while she sat in her car on a night shift trying to make ends meet. I take a knee to the stupidity of it all.

Promote responsibility, don't have 10 kids with 5 different women and abandon them all. You just destroyed lives not created. Promote staying in school and being responsible American citizens not American burdens. Antifa? I'm shedding tears for what this country once was and to what it's becoming. I take a knee to the NFL and it's lost cause of lost causes. Misguided buffoonery. F' em.

God Bless the USA and it's Men and Women who serve proudly and sadly suffer due to all this crap.



....................................
Oh, didn't you know that to most of the protesters and quite a few people around here, the police are the enemy of the people? The time spent reading these forums is sometimes a suspension of rationality and logic. Accept that and you can get a few good laughs from most of these people. Oh yeah, also accept that if you disagree with them, that automatically makes you a racist, homophobic, intolerant misogynistic, neocon, fascist. I hate when that happens.




[Edited on 9/26/2017 by Fretsman]


amyjared - 9/29/2017 at 03:55 AM

quote:
I am disgusted with the NFL (No F'n Logic). I think it's moronic and misguided. I will not support them or their sponsors. It's a false narrative. 3 more African Americans shot dead this weekend in Chicago. Is THAT why the Steelers were afraid to come out of the locker room? Only the honorable stood hand on heart for the National Anthem.

The 3 dead brought the years total of shot and killed in gang violence to 500 in Chicago. "500" just in Chicago. Why don't any of these a-holes go to their inner cities and preach family values, Fathers taking care of their children, staying in school and off the streets. The police are the victims and yet cops as pigs socks actually exist are a product and then they're worn. BLM? That's what the NFL is crawling in bed with? What a joke. "When 5 cops shot and killed in Dallas the NFL bans any team tribute to honor them, but allows this. They have become the "pigs". The police are diverse, they're mostly military as we want composed trained individuals to respond to emergencies. They have seen the trauma of the world. When we need them they come, for loved ones passings to "shots fired" reports. When the B.O.L.O.'s (be on the lookout) and APB's (all points bulletins) describes certain individuals it's in the public interest to stop those who fit the description. If the witnesses called in scrawny white kid with a pink Mohawk shooting people, EVERY scrawny white kid with a pink Mohawk needs to be stopped and investigated. Is that not common sense? A beautiful young black police officer was just assassinated in NYC a few months ago. She was not only a police officer, she was also a single mother of 2 sweet kids. Where was the outrage when a black man walked up and shot her in the head point blank for no reason while she sat in her car on a night shift trying to make ends meet. I take a knee to the stupidity of it all.

Promote responsibility, don't have 10 kids with 5 different women and abandon them all. You just destroyed lives not created. Promote staying in school and being responsible American citizens not American burdens. Antifa? I'm shedding tears for what this country once was and to what it's becoming. I take a knee to the NFL and it's lost cause of lost causes. Misguided buffoonery. F' em.

God Bless the USA and it's Men and Women who serve proudly and sadly suffer due to all this crap.

....................................
Oh, didn't you know that to most of the protesters and quite a few people around here, the police are the enemy of the people? The time spent reading these forums is sometimes a suspension of rationality and logic. Accept that and you can get a few good laughs from most of these people. Oh yeah, also accept that if you disagree with them, that automatically makes you a racist, homophobic, intolerant misogynistic, neocon, fascist. I hate when that happens.



I was going to let this thread die with this last post, but being a teacher, I figured I had to use it for a lesson. I almost didn't know where to begin, but I figured I'd begin at the end and work my way backwards.

There is a difference between "being" a racist and using a racist slur. Most often, some one says something racist (often innocently) and it's pointed out to them thusly: "That's racist" and the person who hears it misinterprets that as "You're a racist" or homophobe or misogynist, etc. An example would be when someone says "I paid too much, I got gyped" I used to say that until it was pointed out to me that it was a slur from the term Gypsy. Was I being racist? No, but I was using a term that is racist. When I learned about it, I stopped. So, you're not being called a racist, but if you are saying something racist, sexist, etc and someone is calling you one it, own it and stop using the term.

Yes, I heard about a black police officer killed in her car. It is tragic and there was plenty of outrage. Maybe you missed it?

As for the "white kid with a pink mohawk", I totally understand that police should look for one if that is the description. But often the description is "black male" and then look what happens. Racial profiling exists and there really are such things as DWB (driving while black) but many people are unaware of it, or choose to overlook it.

The police, like all other jobs, have people who are good at it and bad at it. I would likely put them into 2 categories: Those that chose the job because they want to help others and see that as one of the best ways to do it and those who were bullied and picked on and want to get back at everyone by doing it themselves. The former make great cops, the latter, the worst. Some police are victims, some are perpetrators and predators.

As for your racist stereotypes of people living in inner cities, all I can say is that there are some who likely fit your grotesque characterization and there are most that don't. Some just get a lot of press because it makes good headlines. Yes there is gang violence but the real question should be Why and what can we do to help kids make a better choice. Why is it that when someone takes a stand against something like police brutality and racism, others try to bring up something else? Black lives matter is a beautiful slogan and yet people wanted to take it as "others don't" when nothing could be further from the truth? Do you also go to Breast cancer rallies and scream about testicular cancer and tell them they are being sexist and uncaring to all others??

As for the football players going to the inner cities to "preach family values": 1. Who's family? Yours? Mine? I'll bet they differ greatly...and 2. I see them do this ALL THE TIME. They are running shelters, donating huge sums of money, creating opportunities, funding incentives, etc. Look it up. All-The-Time.

Lastly, there is this thing called White Privilege and it's real. Whoever wrote this piece never was followed around a department store because of their color, pulled over for their color, made to feel small because of their skin, etc. Even tiny things, such as this: When you have a boo-boo at a store and ask for a band-aid, the one you get blends to your skin...unless you are African American. Think about that for a second. As H. Rap Brown said a long time ago, "Weddings are white, funerals are black. Angel food cake is white, Devil's food cake is black...we ain't won one yet." Hope this helps. Peace.


LeglizHemp - 9/29/2017 at 07:08 AM

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/28/16378846/nfl-protests-tru mp-nick-wright


BIGV - 9/29/2017 at 06:23 PM

quote:
Lastly, there is this thing called White Privilege and it's real.


Sorry, not buying this, never will.


emr - 9/29/2017 at 07:41 PM

quote:
quote:
You offend Jews if you say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy holidays."
You offend Catholics if you wear a hat in church.
You offend soldiers if you kneel during the anthem.


One of these is not like the other.


We don't often agree; but agreed.

Trump is correct that the owners are afraid of the players, however. But the players make their choice (to protest or not) the owners make their choice (whether to fine or fire their players.) Life is like that. During High School I got into trouble numerous times for not crossing my heart during the pledge (as a Vietnam protest)

So everyone makes their choices re: action/counteractions/ repercussions. As a lifelong Giants fan I was thrilled to see Mara stand up to OBJ's childish on field actions; however. For the most part the great athletes get away with it.


goldtop - 9/29/2017 at 07:43 PM

quote:
quote:
Lastly, there is this thing called White Privilege and it's real.


Sorry, not buying this, never will.


How about we're all created equal...some more than others


porkchopbob - 9/29/2017 at 08:27 PM

quote:
Trump is correct that the owners are afraid of the players, however.


Owners certainly don't want this kind of persistent spotlight, but they showed this past Sunday that they are more pissed at Trump for criticizing their business and how they run that business. You think Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft, two of his biggest NFL supporter, appreciate a President throwing kerosene on the issue and pushing away long time fans, i.e., customers? Remember, Trump likes shiny things and has butted heads with the NFL before: when he owned the New Jersey Generals of the USFL (which he helped run into the ground); when he couldn't buy the Buffalo Bills. Anyone who thinks this is about the flag and veterans isn't paying attention.


emr - 9/29/2017 at 09:00 PM

quote:
quote:
Trump is correct that the owners are afraid of the players, however.


Owners certainly don't want this kind of persistent spotlight, but they showed this past Sunday that they are more pissed at Trump for criticizing their business and how they run that business. You think Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft, two of his biggest NFL supporter, appreciate a President throwing kerosene on the issue and pushing away long time fans, i.e., customers? Remember, Trump likes shiny things and has butted heads with the NFL before: when he owned the New Jersey Generals of the USFL (which he helped run into the ground); when he couldn't buy the Buffalo Bills. Anyone who thinks this is about the flag and veterans isn't paying attention.


There were test questions that yield the proper answer: True-True-Not related. They absolutely are justifiably enraged at Trump making a bigger issue of this than it is. Nut they are also afraid of the players. I truly believed Colin K. was blacklisted for similar behavior; but the owners will never risk going after the players en masse.

And re: flags and veterans. There is a huge swath of middle America (philosophical not geographic) that will always make it about that point. Put a candidate up who calls them deplorable and you end up with Trump. As Home put it this was an election caught "between Scylla and Charybdis ."


KCJimmy - 9/29/2017 at 10:22 PM

quote:
As for the "white kid with a pink mohawk", I totally understand that police should look for one if that is the description. But often the description is "black male" and then look what happens.
True, but if the crime is committed by a white person the description is "white male". Usually there is also some description of the clothing being worn when last seen. They have to search for perps based on whatever information is available. They have a tough, usually thankless job. and scenarios like the one you describe are a part of their everyday lives.

As for good cops & bad cops you are absolutely correct there also. My experience has been there are a lot more good ones than bad ones. Though I have been guilty of incorrectly calling good ones bad over something like getting a speeding ticket. Its crazy, as I mature (and I am still working on that) I have found that if you treat them with respect they appreciate it and are a lot nicer to you. It is a shame but they have to approach vehicles and situations prepared for a confrontation or a bad attitude. Even for simple traffic stops they don't know what they are going to get. And if you admit you were speeding act respectful and be friendly, it goes along way. You may not avoid a ticket but you avoided a confrontation and you made their job a little easier.

quote:
Lastly, there is this thing called White Privilege and it's real. Whoever wrote this piece never was followed around a department store because of their color, pulled over for their color, made to feel small because of their skin...
No doubt this happens but it is not always color. If you are a white man with long hair and a beard, dress like a hippie and wear sandals you likely HAVE experienced something like this. I have. And yes how I dress is a choice. But black men who wear a suit & tie probably don't have this problem as often as those who can't seem to pull their ripped jeans all the way up the way they are intended to be worn. Again a choice. But regardless of color, how you carry and present yourself WILL have an impact on how you are treated. May not be fair but if experience tells you hippies commit more crimes than black men in suits who would you expect them to follow?

I am not disagreeing with you so much as I am suggesting there is a little more to some of these things. The world would be better if the media didn't try not to make everything black vs white.


emr - 9/29/2017 at 10:27 PM

quote:
quote:
As for the "white kid with a pink mohawk", I totally understand that police should look for one if that is the description. But often the description is "black male" and then look what happens.
True, but if the crime is committed by a white person the description is "white male". Usually there is also some description of the clothing being worn when last seen. They have to search for perps based on whatever information is available. They have a tough, usually thankless job. and scenarios like the one you describe are a part of their everyday lives.

As for good cops & bad cops you are absolutely correct there also. My experience has been there are a lot more good ones than bad ones. Though I have been guilty of incorrectly calling good ones bad over something like getting a speeding ticket. Its crazy, as I mature (and I am still working on that) I have found that if you treat them with respect they appreciate it and are a lot nicer to you. It is a shame but they have to approach vehicles and situations prepared for a confrontation or a bad attitude. Even for simple traffic stops they don't know what they are going to get. And if you admit you were speeding act respectful and be friendly, it goes along way. You may not avoid a ticket but you avoided a confrontation and you made their job a little easier.

quote:
Lastly, there is this thing called White Privilege and it's real. Whoever wrote this piece never was followed around a department store because of their color, pulled over for their color, made to feel small because of their skin...
No doubt this happens but it is not always color. If you are a white man with long hair and a beard, dress like a hippie and wear sandals you likely HAVE experienced something like this. I have. And yes how I dress is a choice. But black men who wear a suit & tie probably don't have this problem as often as those who can't seem to pull their ripped jeans all the way up the way they are intended to be worn. Again a choice. But regardless of color, how you carry and present yourself WILL have an impact on how you are treated. May not be fair but if experience tells you hippies commit more crimes than black men in suits who would you expect them to follow?

I am not disagreeing with you so much as I am suggesting there is a little more to some of these things. The world would be better if the media didn't try not to make everything black vs white.


When I lived in NYC I had a good friend who was African American. He always wore a shirt and I tie; said it was his only chance of ever getting a Taxi to pick him up. Yes I've dressed like a white bum; but the fallout is never as bad.


wearly89 - 9/30/2017 at 11:15 PM

quote:

I was going to let this thread die with this last post, but being a teacher, I figured I had to use it for a lesson. I almost didn't know where to begin, but I figured I'd begin at the end and work my way backwards.

There is a difference between "being" a racist and using a racist slur. Most often, some one says something racist (often innocently) and it's pointed out to them thusly: "That's racist" and the person who hears it misinterprets that as "You're a racist" or homophobe or misogynist, etc. An example would be when someone says "I paid too much, I got gyped" I used to say that until it was pointed out to me that it was a slur from the term Gypsy. Was I being racist? No, but I was using a term that is racist. When I learned about it, I stopped. So, you're not being called a racist, but if you are saying something racist, sexist, etc and someone is calling you one it, own it and stop using the term.

Yes, I heard about a black police officer killed in her car. It is tragic and there was plenty of outrage. Maybe you missed it?

As for the "white kid with a pink mohawk", I totally understand that police should look for one if that is the description. But often the description is "black male" and then look what happens. Racial profiling exists and there really are such things as DWB (driving while black) but many people are unaware of it, or choose to overlook it.

The police, like all other jobs, have people who are good at it and bad at it. I would likely put them into 2 categories: Those that chose the job because they want to help others and see that as one of the best ways to do it and those who were bullied and picked on and want to get back at everyone by doing it themselves. The former make great cops, the latter, the worst. Some police are victims, some are perpetrators and predators.

As for your racist stereotypes of people living in inner cities, all I can say is that there are some who likely fit your grotesque characterization and there are most that don't. Some just get a lot of press because it makes good headlines. Yes there is gang violence but the real question should be Why and what can we do to help kids make a better choice. Why is it that when someone takes a stand against something like police brutality and racism, others try to bring up something else? Black lives matter is a beautiful slogan and yet people wanted to take it as "others don't" when nothing could be further from the truth? Do you also go to Breast cancer rallies and scream about testicular cancer and tell them they are being sexist and uncaring to all others??

As for the football players going to the inner cities to "preach family values": 1. Who's family? Yours? Mine? I'll bet they differ greatly...and 2. I see them do this ALL THE TIME. They are running shelters, donating huge sums of money, creating opportunities, funding incentives, etc. Look it up. All-The-Time.

Lastly, there is this thing called White Privilege and it's real. Whoever wrote this piece never was followed around a department store because of their color, pulled over for their color, made to feel small because of their skin, etc. Even tiny things, such as this: When you have a boo-boo at a store and ask for a band-aid, the one you get blends to your skin...unless you are African American. Think about that for a second. As H. Rap Brown said a long time ago, "Weddings are white, funerals are black. Angel food cake is white, Devil's food cake is black...we ain't won one yet." Hope this helps. Peace.


Too too funny! Undoubtedly, you're a product of public schools, right?


wearly89 - 9/30/2017 at 11:17 PM

quote:
Some folks see reality, some folks see what they're told reality is, some folks are seeking answers, and some folks are Waitin For Brains.
Guess all that would depend upon whether they agree with you, right?


Riverpigusmc - 10/2/2017 at 01:06 AM

It seems some never took Constitution 101. I know it may shock some who don't understand, the 1st amendment only applies to government censorship of free speech. On a side note, there has never been a reference to separation of church of state in the establishment clause. Free speech does not apply to the private sector, or the free market. They have the right to be idiots...we have the right to not watch, and to tell their sponsors how we feel. Sad fact is, most of them are hood rats who would be nowhere if they were not able to catch a ball. Flame away...just because I've been going to see the Brothers since 72 does not mean I agree with liberal ideology

[Edited on 10/2/2017 by Riverpigusmc]


WaitinForRain - 10/2/2017 at 03:12 AM

They absolutely have the right to express themselves and are hurting exactly nobody by doing it.

Unlike getting gunned down in a hail of bullets by po-lice brutality actually kills people. Trump is nothing more than a loudmouth moron so out of touch with anything real, it defies description.


porkchopbob - 10/2/2017 at 01:20 PM

quote:
Sad fact is, most of them are hood rats who would be nowhere if they were not able to catch a ball. Flame away...just because I've been going to see the Brothers since 72 does not mean I agree with liberal ideology



Thanks for not hiding your vile, racist prejudice and proving your real motivation. People like you are what many players are protesting and won't lose any sleep if you turn off the TV and burn your Tom Brady underpants (just remember to take them off first).


KCJimmy - 10/2/2017 at 02:58 PM

quote:
People like you are what many players are protesting and won't lose any sleep if you turn off the TV and burn your Tom Brady underpants (just remember to take them off first).
Seems they are having trouble agreeing upon just exactly what it is they ARE protesting. I guess it won't matter if no one is watching.



[Edited on 10/2/2017 by KCJimmy]


porkchopbob - 10/2/2017 at 03:02 PM

quote:
quote:
People like you are what many players are protesting and won't lose any sleep if you turn off the TV and burn your Tom Brady underpants (just remember to take them off first).
Seems they are having trouble agreeing upon just exactly what it is they ARE protesting. I guews it won't matter if no one is watching.


Well, initially a few were protesting gross inequalities in this imperfect country. More recently, in greater numbers, the players were protesting Trump's direct attacks on their right to do so, as well as owners' right to run their businesses as they please.

Happy to clear that up for you, it isn't very complicated.


KCJimmy - 10/2/2017 at 03:41 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
People like you are what many players are protesting and won't lose any sleep if you turn off the TV and burn your Tom Brady underpants (just remember to take them off first).
Seems they are having trouble agreeing upon just exactly what it is they ARE protesting. I guews it won't matter if no one is watching.


Well, initially a few were protesting gross inequalities in this imperfect country. More recently, in greater numbers, the players were protesting Trump's direct attacks on their right to do so, as well as owners' right to run their businesses as they please.

Happy to clear that up for you, it isn't very complicated.
I wasn't confused but thanks for pointing out 3 of the various things being protested for those that ARE. Again, it won't matter if no one is watching.


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