Thread: Steve Miller to investigate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

heineken515 - 6/1/2016 at 04:52 PM

Too damn funny, go Steve !

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/steve-miller-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-inve stigation/

Steve Miller Wants to Investigate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
By Dave Lifton June 1, 2016 12:13 PM

Nearly two months after his induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Steve Miller is still upset at the way he feels he was treated. Yesterday (May 31), he revealed that he’s starting an inquiry into their finances to make sure that their charitable efforts are on the level.

“I’m planning to investigate them,” he said on Howard Stern’s SiriusXM radio show (embedded below). “I’ve already got all their public documents, and I want to see where they’re spending the money. I want to see who’s being paid. I want to check it all out.”

Miller went into further detail about the talks between himself and the Hall that left him with a bad taste in his mouth. Calling it “three months of insults and bulls—,” Miller said that their approach to him was geared more towards having him on the telecast than being inducted into the Hall.

“It was like, ‘Shut the f— up. If you don’t do what we tell you to do, we’re gonna cut you from the show.’ ‘Really? Cut us from the show.’ So, then they’d say, ‘OK, we’re not gonna cut you from the show and you can have five tickets for the band.’ ‘F— you. We want tickets for the band, the wives and stuff. It just went on.”

During his induction speech, Miller began his criticism of the Hall, saying it needed to be “more inclusive of women and to be more transparent in your dealings with the public, and most importantly, to do much more to revive music in our schools.”

In the press room after the ceremony, Miller expressed his dissatisfaction with what he said was the Hall of Fame’s shoddy treatment of its artists, claiming his band members had to pay their own way and spend up to $10,000 for tickets. Over the next few days, he stepped up his attacks, calling it “a bunch of jackasses and jerks and f—ing gangsters and crooks” and asking what the Hall of Fame does “besides talk about itself and sell postcards?”

While many may have expected Miller’s anger to die down, what we’ve seen is just the tip of the iceberg. “I’m gonna get these guys,” he told Stern. “They’re gonna be sorry that they treated all these people this way. … And the funding they raise is actually gonna be used for music education before I’m done.”


WarEagleRK - 6/1/2016 at 04:57 PM

He seems so happy and content with life.


heineken515 - 6/1/2016 at 05:00 PM

This seems appropriate:

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”


― Hunter S. Thompson


pops42 - 6/1/2016 at 05:20 PM

If he was serious about making a statement, he should have refused to be inducted. he's a nutty old bastard.


heineken515 - 6/1/2016 at 05:27 PM

quote:
If he was serious about making a statement, he should have refused to be inducted. he's a nutty old bastard.


I disagree.

Someone like him shining some light on the inter workings just may clean things up a bit.


CanadianMule - 6/1/2016 at 06:49 PM

I'm a nutty old bastard but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

Others have refused and just get inducted anyway. Miller has gotten more press this way.

Sex Pistols don't them to F Off and they got this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdnQEQhDzUc


WarEagleRK - 6/1/2016 at 07:20 PM

Miller wanted the recognition and the ego boost that comes with getting in the Hall of Fame otherwise he would have walked away when he was getting the runaround from them.

No doubt the system is corrupt, and it is a noble cause if getting some transparency out of the HOF is his true intention, however it is more likely that Miller is using his campaign against the Hall of Fame to keep his name in the spotlight and the second he stops getting Stern appearances or interviews he'll go back to doing state fairs and being a non-public malcontent vs being a public one. I don't blame him, the music business is cruel and whatever he can do to keep some spotlight on him will be good for his recognition.

Best of luck to him on his campaign.


CanadianMule - 6/1/2016 at 07:46 PM

He was doing fine before and he will do fine after. Not sure if the State Fair thing is a knock but Steve draws well each year and has for a long time now. He deserved entry to the HOF unlike many others.

Plus I hadn't really heard a thing since the HOF evening until the Stern show. Now it is Stern so he will create crap just by going over the same point over and over. Sure Miller talked about taking everyone down but I imagine he will jut walk away.

Stern will just find some new dirt elsewhere.

Did he want induction, recognition and an ego boost? Sure. He deserves it.


dadof2 - 6/1/2016 at 07:57 PM

Good for Miller...and great to know he's been on Howard's show-I'm planning to listen!


WarEagleRK - 6/1/2016 at 08:19 PM

I am sure Miller was doing fine and it wasn't a knock on current status of his career, but it was my commentary where I think he's just using this to keep his name in a spotlight that it hasn't been in for decades. He wasn't getting the kind of attention just being journeyman classic rocker that he is getting now based on his angry rants about how the HOF treated him. He's using the system well, but it is also a bit hypocritical to accept the award and the status that it brings and less than 30 minutes later go backstage and rip apart the organization that bestowed the award upon you. Even this page dedicated to the ABB has about 3 threads on Miller's post hall of fame interview victory tour.

I'll admit my bias as I find Miller to be a borderline Hall Of Famer. In pretty much every interview that I have seen with him over the years he always seems to be bitter or angry about something, so the Hall of Fame is nothing new. He has had a strong career, but I don't think of him as one of the all time greats, or even one of the greats of his era. He's the musical equivalent of an Alan Trammel of the Detroit Tigers or Lee Smith of the Cubs/Cards/Red Sox/Others . Great players with long careers, and fans of those players feel they belong, but overall are just on the borderline and may get in, but may not.

Also I was not opposed to Miller getting in because who really knows what the people who make these decisions are actually making these decisions on at this point? They keep those meetings and decisions behind closed doors and never share the voting results with the public.


pops42 - 6/1/2016 at 08:33 PM

Is Steve going to hire a team of lawyers and accountants to investigate the rrhof on his own dime?


Dan - 6/1/2016 at 10:03 PM

Never cared for miller in the first place..


JimSheridan - 6/1/2016 at 10:57 PM

I'm not a Steve Miller fan, but the man has been a mainstay of FM radio for most of my life. He earned his spot easily.


WarEagleRK - 6/1/2016 at 11:45 PM

quote:
Is Steve going to hire a team of lawyers and accountants to investigate the rrhof on his own dime?


That has reality show written all over it.

Law & Order: R&R HOF


fender31 - 6/1/2016 at 11:55 PM

I am sure Eddie trunk would love to do the same, he hates the R+R hall of fame.


CanadianMule - 6/2/2016 at 12:25 AM

As publicity to keep his name around, what purpose? Won't help sales of albums or tickets.

He was asked questions and answered honestly. Plus he didn't like how he was treated nor his band and he is not the first to say so. Is he a bitter, mean old guy? I have met him a few times and he never seemed like it to me. But maybe. Perhaps he just answers questions honestly.

As for borderline HOF worthy, where would he be lacking? Sales , ticket sales, chart success, in singles and albums and sustaining it for 50 years. It may be one of the few that the HOF is getting right. Artists dream of having a tenth of that success.

I get that you don't like him but his career being borderline? Can't see what criteria you are judging by.


WarEagleRK - 6/2/2016 at 03:27 AM

I didn't say to keep his name around, his name is going to be around just due to classic rock radio. I said to keep his name in the spotlight, which it hasn't been in for years. The HOF induction put his name back out there in the spotlight and he's milking it for everything he can get out of it. I don't blame him at all for that, I do think handling it how he did on the night of induction was very hypocritical.

You can argue his worthiness for the HOF all you want, I'm ok either way with it. I think he's borderline, but borderline means if he got in I can understand why and if he didn't I can also understand why.

However, if you think the hall of fame and the publicity that goes with it doesn't help ticket sales and catalog album sales, you are dead wrong. However, pretty much every artist talks about the boost getting in gives your sales in the months following the announcement/induction. By keeping his name out there talking about it, he is reaching not only the audience that loves him, but also reaching an audience that either had forgotten how much they liked him or hadn't discovered him yet. As I said earlier, I don't blame him most classic artists would kill for this publicity.

I think of the hall of fame of anything (entertainment, sports, whatever) as those being among the best of all time, or at the very least among the very best of your era. It's subjective as apparently it is a very abstract criteria that determines entry. Miller has had a good long career. I don't put him among the elite, others may. He's not one of the best of all time, I guess it could be argued that he is among the best of his era which is why I said to me he was borderline.

Again, no problem with him getting in as I put him on the border anyway. I just didn't see him as a shoe-in.



[Edited on 6/2/2016 by WarEagleRK]


CanadianMule - 6/2/2016 at 03:51 AM

It put his name in the papers as everyone who gets inducted. But keeping his name in the spotlight? For who?

Compared to all the crap and people that trend. Even now it is just a blip.

Sales may have been helped by HOF induction at one point. Not now. Times have changed. Youtube will give you every album. Fans already own it. Miller has moved all the product that he is going to. Any sales would be discs in stores and those sales were done long ago. No huge re-order for Steve leading to actual royalties. His ticket sales will match the year before as he always does his 50 shows and tours the summer. Draws well which is why promoters buy the show. I am not dead wrong. Notice how Millers CDs soared up the charts? Neither did anyone else. The fans owned them long ago.

Some acts get a boost as it makes them actually play some shows. An artist like Miller, he does it anyway. Kids are not lining up at shows because he is the old guy fighting with the HOF. The audience is old guys like most on here. We won't go to a show that we were skipping because Steve told Jann to kiss his butt. New fans are our kids that we drag there with us.

I think you are greatly overestimating both the effects and motives behind his actions and words. Also this only hits home if you know who Miller is. To the public that don't know who he is, this adds nothing for him. I used to steer the PR ship for artists and this is not playing the media.

If Stern didn't have a dead day then we aren't even discussing it. So many possible interesting stories and Stern wastes it talking about crap. In between telling us how awesome he is.


WarEagleRK - 6/2/2016 at 11:28 AM

I didn't say it was a huge increase in sales, but everyone does talk about how it is a boost. Trust me I understand what you are saying, I just disagree. I will not belabor the point anymore to avoid desecrating the memory of the late horse.

On a side note, I hope someone does investigate the R&R HOF and gets them to be more transparent about their practices. It would be good for the fans, and actually be good for their institution in the long run as it would make the induction process appear less shady. However, I just don't think Miller is the guy to make that happen, nor do I think he really wants to put that kind of effort into it. To me he just comes across as blowing off steam because for the first time in years he has more than just the audience of the local station of the town that he is playing for that weekend listening and he's enjoying the platform. As stated before, I don't blame him. (Apologies to the deceased horse for that one last kick.)

If his efforts through these interviews cause someone with the means to push for transparency by the HOF, then that will be his late career legacy and erase any doubt that I would have had about if he should have been inducted or not because that's a ton of influence and would change the induction process for the good of everyone involved.


CanadianMule - 6/2/2016 at 02:57 PM

In this era, royalty cheques barely exist and stores hardly order product by anyone. Definitely not old rockers unless you are The Beatles, Zeppelin, Floyd or the Stones. They still sell well to younger stoners. It may sell some of what is in stores already but those sales were calculated long ago.

At one point, your statement was indeed valid but not anymore.

Either way, it is not a PR ploy to stay relevant. Just a pissed off guy and from all other accounts, he is not alone. He just spoke out. Add a touch of Stern who uses the misfortunes of others to create a career for himself.

It is already forgotten by most.

Now in a related question - why wouldn't an act like NWA perform? Not like their musical skills are out of practice as they don't play anything. Just put the record on and talk over it. Couldn't they play a single song from either of their TWO albums? Two whole albums and no tours. There is an act that was deserving of entry to a HOF. (This is why I laugh when people like Miller are mentioned as borderline)

People often mention acts like Jethro Tull. The HOF will induct the janitor before acts like Jethro Tull.

Thank God that the HOF has nothing to do with what we listen to.


WarEagleRK - 6/2/2016 at 03:22 PM

I'd never say that NWA belonged, but they likely got in on the Sex Pistols/Velvet Underground scenarios where none of them sold a ton of albums, they didn't have long careers, but they were credited with starting a type of musical revolution. Using my criteria I wouldn't put them in, but I get why they are in.

I'm just using my own personal criteria for the HOF that I stated above, since they really have never established what the actual criteria is for their inductions. Feel free to laugh at my take on Miller as it is all subjective, I just don't see him as a member of the elite... however many who aren't among the elite are in this Hall so in the big picture it doesn't really matter.

I am not even knocking the guy's career at all other than thinking he is a bit hypocritical to accept the award and mostly play nice on stage, then go to the back and immediately rip on the group that gave him the award.

I never knew Steve Miller was such a Canadian icon.

If I just say "you win" can we stop using the different words to make the same points that we aren't going to see eye to eye on?

[Edited on 6/2/2016 by WarEagleRK]


CanadianMule - 6/2/2016 at 04:15 PM

There is no win or lose. Just opinions. We agree on much of it anyway. Just don't think any of this is more than Miller speaking his mind. Time and place? Probably not but we are not privy to conversations and what pissed him off. I hate phony so I will take honesty every time.

NWA changed nothing and created nothing It was all happening without them anyway. We can't call every rapper an innovator.

Pistols is the same thing. Didn't create punk.

To include artists with 1 or 2 releases in the HOF is just stupid. It would be like a baseball player being inducted after making the big leagues for a season. In the case of NWA or the Pistols it is worse as they rarely or never played. It is like inducting a guy who got drafted called up and didn't play.

Ice Cube solo is more deserving than NWA.

Again no winner - it's all fun.


wease - 6/2/2016 at 06:16 PM

Weren't he and Jann Wenner BIG buds back in the day? Along with Bozz Skaggs?


tbomike - 6/2/2016 at 09:04 PM

quote:
Good for Miller...and great to know he's been on Howard's show-I'm planning to listen!


If you have not heard it yet please do. You will really like this interview. Fascinating historical stuff.


amyjared - 6/2/2016 at 09:08 PM

Although I listen to some SM and even play some on guitar, I always remember Miles Davis saying that he was "a sorry-ass cat who couldn't play his way out of a paper bag".


CanadianMule - 6/2/2016 at 09:34 PM

quote:
Although I listen to some SM and even play some on guitar, I always remember Miles Davis saying that he was "a sorry-ass cat who couldn't play his way out of a paper bag".


Well Miles was wrong and that sorry ass cat had a great career.

from Miles Wiki page

quote:
He took significant cuts in his usual performing fees in order to open for rock groups like the Steve Miller Band, Grateful Dead, Neil Young, and Santana.


Seems like Miles was not that opposed to opening for Steve in an effort to expand his audience.


JimSheridan - 6/3/2016 at 01:39 AM

For impact and influence, I'm glad the Pistols are in. They are the face, sound, and image of British punk. Their one real album is a killer. They did more in their short run than plenty of folks (including Rock hall of famers) do in long runs.


CanadianMule - 6/3/2016 at 04:49 AM

quote:
For impact and influence, I'm glad the Pistols are in. They are the face, sound, and image of British punk. Their one real album is a killer. They did more in their short run than plenty of folks (including Rock hall of famers) do in long runs.



I love the album. But the difference is the money and marketing behind them that pushed it. The face? Sure but that is because they were marketed like that and over time it took. Image? Was done before them but I would agree that the industry has put those images out there through movies, shirts, posters and other rock stuff. Marketing machine and huge money maker.

The sound? Is hard rock through and through and I like it. But what sets it apart from all the other punk bands is the guitar and drums. Too good for punk. Helps make it appealing to more people. But true punk was wild and sloppy.

They barely toured or played shows. So those marketed images are what the world saw and continues to see. Johnny Rotten has said the same. Says that they were a farce. McLaren was smart and marketed to death. Plus he had guys like Sid that he could wind up and then watch it go crazy. Add a needle and guaranteed death. Legend. Fabricated but a legend. Couldn't play which makes induction an even bigger mockery.

I love the album. But it is only one album. The band breaks up after a handful of shows that never make it to the end of the show. Some shows lasted minutes. The fact that Sid couldn't play didn't amuse Johnny. They broke up.

If one album and a dozen shows gets you into the HOF then that doesn't say much for the HOF and its' criteria. Again it is like an athlete barely making the majors, plays half of a season and quits and gains entry to the HOF. Never. No matter how good that half season was.

Fabricated like the Bay City Rollers, the Spice Girls or the boy bands. Again that really isn't too punk. Sid couldn't even play and isn't on the only album that they have. They couldn't make it through a tiny US tour.

When a band like Yes is not in after their incredible career, the Sex Pistols entry makes no sense. They did more in a short time? They did nothing and it worked perfectly. Make the papers, be obscene and get completely stoned. That is what they did. If you mean the success, marketing genius. Nancy's murder and Sid's death just put it all over the top. Could not have been better for business even if it had been scripted.

But put the Pistols in before all the rappers


JimSheridan - 6/3/2016 at 10:34 AM

Influence. That album inspired so many. Green Day is the easy and obvious example. The Pistols turned England upside down.

Hype IS part of rock. In rock, image DOES count. It is not called the hall of accomplishment, after all, and it is driven by a media publication. The Pistols are a bigger part of the story of rock than many of the bands in there.

I don't disagree with your points that the Pistols were not as "pure" punk as early Ramones or Clash or plenty of others, but they are a wildly important band.


CanadianMule - 6/3/2016 at 02:10 PM

quote:
Influence. That album inspired so many. Green Day is the easy and obvious example. The Pistols turned England upside down.

Hype IS part of rock. In rock, image DOES count. It is not called the hall of accomplishment, after all, and it is driven by a media publication. The Pistols are a bigger part of the story of rock than many of the bands in there.

I don't disagree with your points that the Pistols were not as "pure" punk as early Ramones or Clash or plenty of others, but they are a wildly important band.


I agree with everything. But should image and hype alone get you in? As a band they accomplished very little. I mean if the HOF had any sort of actual criteria, they wouldn't pass. Handful of bar gigs? One album?

I agree that I would let them in before some that are in but that is not saying much.

Some bands were actually punk and hit the road hard and have had long careers.

I take the Pistols album over all punk. But I am a terrible person to gauge by as I don't like punk really. Bad musicians and screaming were not where I was at in the 70s. Duane and Dickey were more my style. But I love hard rock and early metal. The music on Bollocks is far more hard rock than punk.

Agree to disagree on that one. My HOF would have a bit more than half of the people currently in. Only the elite should be in any HOF IMO. Baseball does it right.

I do really like the album and Johnny had his peak moment for sure. Sid should not have been inducted. Insult to every musician out there. Didn't play on the recordings and a handful of bad gigs that made Johnny quit the band. Besides being on t-shirts, a drug addict and involved in the murder before his death, he did nothing. Definitely nothing musical.

Animal from the Muppets is more deserving than Sid.


bird72 - 6/3/2016 at 06:02 PM

Cool what Mr Miller is doing. Wouldn't hold my breath on startling results, but could be interesting.

Is R&R HOF valid?
Does anyone look to see if their artist of choice was ever chosen?
Does it really give a band more validity?
As an institution do they do anything more than have fee charging exhibit(s) and an annual glitz show?

I have not researched, but I do know HOF does not have a reputation as champion of musician rights and benefits, and if they are have done a poor awareness job.

They could be valid (laugh laugh) if they:
Did something to enable retirement and insurance benefits for musicians
Had assistance options for elderly musicians having difficulty health and housing.
Encouraged education options for musicians in training.
Had youth programs to get kids into music
Awarded the "in the trenches" musicians who often are better than the "names"
and (drum roll) the most difficult:
Took money as a rating of musical ability out of the judging mix.

OK dream over


Bhawk - 6/3/2016 at 06:06 PM

Go Steve!


Bhawk - 6/3/2016 at 06:07 PM

quote:
Cool what Mr Miller is doing. Wouldn't hold my breath on startling results, but could be interesting.

Is R&R HOF valid?
Does anyone look to see if their artist of choice was ever chosen?
Does it really give a band more validity?
As an institution do they do anything more than have fee charging exhibit(s) and an annual glitz show?

I have not researched, but I do know HOF does not have a reputation as champion of musician rights and benefits, and if they are have done a poor awareness job.

They could be valid (laugh laugh) if they:
Did something to enable retirement and insurance benefits for musicians
Had assistance options for elderly musicians having difficulty health and housing.
Encouraged education options for musicians in training.
Had youth programs to get kids into music
Awarded the "in the trenches" musicians who often are better than the "names"
and (drum roll) the most difficult:
Took money as a rating of musical ability out of the judging mix.

OK dream over




It's Jann Wenner's rock and roll world, we just live in it.


heineken515 - 6/3/2016 at 06:46 PM

From the Rolling Stone article:

Miller said he's "planning to keep [the story] in the news," noting he already has the Rock Hall's public documents.

"I wanna see where they're spending the money," he said. "I wanna see who's being paid. I wanna check it all out …

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's actually going to go to Cleveland. The Museum's actually gonna mean something. The funding they raise is actually gonna be used for music education before I'm done."



This part is funny, not related to the Hall but his encounter with The Black Keys:

"I never was introduced to the Black Keys," he told Stern. "I didn't know who they were personally. I walked in through security, and there's this guy [Black Keys frontman Dan Auerbach] looking at me, making goo-goo eyes at me or something. I walk up to him, and I go, 'What are you doing tonight?' And he says, 'I'm reading your speech.' I say, 'Oh, great. I can't wait to get the **** out of here.' And I didn't know who he was! If we had been introduced, I'm sure we would have gotten along because we like the same kind of music and they're working musicians and stuff.'"

Auerbach – who told Rolling Stone the band regrets inducting Miller – offered a similar story of their first meeting, but with a more uncomfortable slant. "I don't know, we read a lot of things and we got a really uncomfortable feeling when we first met Steve," the frontman said. "He had no idea who we were. No idea. The first thing he told us was, 'I can't wait to get out of here.' He knew that we signed up to do this speech for him. And he made no effort to even — he didn't even figure out who we were."


So Steve Miller is supposed to bone up on The Black Keys, the guys that are inducting him?

I place that awkward situation on the Hall itself, who figures out who inducts who? And wouldn't you think they would pick someone that had something to do with said artist?


heineken515 - 6/3/2016 at 06:51 PM

I justify the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thusly:

-the building in Cleveland which is a very cool experience, been there 3 times now

-the institution that nominates artists and holds the annual event, the board or whoever they are. What a bunch of self serving asses.


OriginalGoober - 6/3/2016 at 07:27 PM


Good for him, he is probably right that there is an awful lot of money coming in so lets see where it goes out. If music programs benefit, thats great. One thing is that I did look to see their board leadership and its pretty much one guy for 90% of the time since its inception. Could be time for new blood and new direction.

BTW, I saw him and his band last year in a small theater setting and it was fun and sold out so he is still out there drawing crowds.

[Edited on 6/3/2016 by OriginalGoober]


WarEagleRK - 6/3/2016 at 07:47 PM

quote:
I justify the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thusly:

-the building in Cleveland which is a very cool experience, been there 3 times now

-the institution that nominates artists and holds the annual event, the board or whoever they are. What a bunch of self serving asses.


Agree with this 100%. I've been twice and would go all the time if I lived anywhere near Cleveland.


gina - 6/4/2016 at 05:00 PM

Is it possible they are corrupt, and got their bad ways out of inspiration from Steve's song with the lyrics "Go on take the money and run"? Nah it can't be that.

If they are crooked, let him expose them for it. Enough with the payola that the radio stations get to play certain songs of certain artists to help them sell music. Enough with all of it.

Go get 'em Stevie!


MuleMe - 6/8/2016 at 12:55 AM

Steve doing some jazz/blues at Lincoln Center NYC Rose Theatre Dec 9 & 10

"T- Bone Walker - The Bridge from Blues to Jazz"

[Edited on 6/8/2016 by MuleMe]


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