Thread: Phil and Friends or Ratdog?

allmanfanfromsweden - 4/2/2007 at 05:06 AM

Thsi is not a Dead thread..not exactly..what do you folks think of those 2 bands?i love em both..Phil with warren was awesome..I downloaded some soundboards from 2003 and Warrens singing and playing was awesome..He sings the songs Bulit to last,Comes a time etc..with such passion and feeling..Wareen must be a real deadhead..I think he was better with Phil and friends then with The Dead..And Ratdog i havent heard so much,but the stuff iheard from 2007 is very good..what bands do you preffer folks??


sixty8 - 4/2/2007 at 06:32 AM

Phil and Friends for me.

Pete


punknseed - 4/2/2007 at 10:02 AM

Phil & Friends. Especially the Warren Haynes and Jimmy Herring years.


CowboyNeil - 4/2/2007 at 01:00 PM

Phil for me as well. The Quintet of Phil, Warren ,Jimmy, Rob Barraco and Molo was one of my favorite bands of all times!


LinnieXX - 4/2/2007 at 01:16 PM

Phil blows ratdog away anymore.


don't get me started on the Que......


bold99 - 4/2/2007 at 01:20 PM

Phil for so many reasons. He expands the music, brings in new people to keep it fresh, structures the songs in different ways and plays with great musicians.


dadof2boys - 4/2/2007 at 01:24 PM

AFFS---would have loved to have you here for the weekend of ABB shows---guess my answer .................PHIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


dougrhon - 4/2/2007 at 01:25 PM

quote:
Thsi is not a Dead thread..not exactly..what do you folks think of those 2 bands?i love em both..Phil with warren was awesome..I downloaded some soundboards from 2003 and Warrens singing and playing was awesome..He sings the songs Bulit to last,Comes a time etc..with such passion and feeling..Wareen must be a real deadhead..I think he was better with Phil and friends then with The Dead..And Ratdog i havent heard so much,but the stuff iheard from 2007 is very good..what bands do you preffer folks??


Actually, Warren states that he was not a fan of the Dead growing up and was not really familiar with their music before the 90's. His wife Stefani, is a REAL deadhead who was actually unfamiliar with the ABB before she met Warren (at an Allman Brothers concert) Presumably Warren discovered the Dead through Stefani and of course is now a great admirer.

Doug


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/2/2007 at 01:34 PM

hey dadof2boys..yes it would be great to be at The Beacon..next year im planning on going..I think Warren sings and performs The Dead stuff so good..i hope he joings Phil again sometimes for some shows..And Ratdog to..Ratdog have become better and better i think..Solid musicians and great songs..i wont get you started LinnieXX.. lol..i know what you gonna say.. )


dancingrhonda - 4/2/2007 at 01:57 PM

I'm going with Ratdog.....hmm I was a little surprised that Ratdog hasn't gotten more votes, maybe because of Warren's association with Phill and Friends and the ABB nature of this Forum? Interesting.


Charlesinator - 4/2/2007 at 02:35 PM

I want to second eveyone's comments with the exception of Dancing Rhonda's. Ratdog is little better than a psychodelic garage band IMO. The Phil Lesh Quintet was incredible. There And Back is one of my favorite CD's. Showed a whole nother side to Warren's playing, singing and songwriting. I'm so glad to have caught that band live on a couple of occasions. Comments from many Dead Heads were that they were better than the Dead because the musicianship was sooooooooo much better.


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/2/2007 at 02:45 PM

was the musicanship sooooooo much better?they where real good..but not anywhere close to the real thing.. oh..thats a good song by the way..The Real thing..


dadof2boys - 4/2/2007 at 03:00 PM

...for those who haven't seen/heard the Phil & Friends DVD with Scofield & Campbell---well worth it--brilliant music


foppa - 4/2/2007 at 03:29 PM

quote:
Phil for me as well. The Quintet of Phil, Warren ,Jimmy, Rob Barraco and Molo was one of my favorite bands of all times!


Ditto.

Not big on the Sco versions, however.

Saw Rob w/ DSO last Wed in SF. Donna sat in. Fun time, good room.


therollingmule - 4/2/2007 at 03:39 PM

I must vote for Phil, altho I have grown to appreciate Bobby more recently.


slowhand6 - 4/2/2007 at 03:58 PM

I vote PAF. But because the musicians involved are so close to Jazz is Dead I have to say that if I had to choose between Phil & the EARLIER JID, it would be Jazz is Dead- Jimmy, Jimmy Cobb (although even better wi/ Apt Q258), T Lazvitz, & Alfonso Johnson. The only boundaries they adhere to are the song's structure. The rest is pure magic!


oldcoot - 4/2/2007 at 03:59 PM

I've not been to but have heard quite a few Phil shows, always good stuff.

Had the misfortune of seeing Ratdog once. That'll never happen again.


drobyn - 4/2/2007 at 04:22 PM

Phil - hands down
Never cared for Ratdog


sixty8 - 4/2/2007 at 04:33 PM

I have seen many of the Phil and Friend's lineups and they were all head and shoulders above Ratdog. I think Ratdog is ok, but I would not pay to see them unless they were on a double bill with another band I really love.

Pete


slowhand6 - 4/2/2007 at 04:40 PM

quote:
I have seen many of the Phil and Friend's lineups and they were all head and shoulders above Ratdog. I think Ratdog is ok, but I would not pay to see them unless they were on a double bill with another band I really love.

Pete


Allmans supposedly this summer.


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/2/2007 at 04:43 PM

whats wrong with ratdog? they are exellent live..and bobbys better than ever..


nypeachhead - 4/2/2007 at 04:54 PM

Phil is better but I do love my RatDog


Angelemerald - 4/2/2007 at 05:02 PM

Honestly, it's all good and I was never into the Dead. Just saw RD at the Beacon the first night of their three night run, and totally enjoyed all the songs and the musicianship. I was never into the Dead and now I hope all the rumours are true. If the ABB, Phil, Ratdog and Warren went on the road, well, that could be the tour of the century. Am I being too naive to call it that?


dadof2boys - 4/2/2007 at 05:14 PM

AFFS--you know what's wrong with ratdog --good self control from me today!!!


abbev - 4/2/2007 at 05:25 PM

when warren and jimmy h were with the band they were better than any GD configuration. i love phils band w/ the string player (i forgot his name) weirs bandhas been killer in recent years


CowboyNeil - 4/2/2007 at 06:12 PM

Saw Ratdog with Phil 02 at Red Rocks. Ratdog was a nice set but P+F came out and you knew why everyone was there.


dougrhon - 4/2/2007 at 06:20 PM

quote:
Honestly, it's all good and I was never into the Dead. Just saw RD at the Beacon the first night of their three night run, and totally enjoyed all the songs and the musicianship. I was never into the Dead and now I hope all the rumours are true. If the ABB, Phil, Ratdog and Warren went on the road, well, that could be the tour of the century. Am I being too naive to call it that?


It would probably be the Warren Haynes farewell tour if he was expected to play with each of those bands.


TennKev - 4/2/2007 at 06:24 PM

when warren and jimmy h were with the band they were better than any GD configuration. i love phils band w/ the string player (i forgot his name) weirs bandhas been killer in recent years



Uh yeah, right, sure. Your opinion, certainly not mine. Given the fact that this is the Allman Bro's website and Warren is in the Allman Bro's, it doesn't surprise me.

Ok, in regards to the original question, Phil or Ratdog. Love 'um both, so it's hard to pick a favorite. Vocally, I think it goes to Ratdog. Instrumentally, I think Phil gets the nod. To me it's all about the setlist. I saw the tour when Ratdog opened up for Phil and the 1st night I enjoyed the Phil set the best, but the next night, I enjoyed Ratdog more. I'm glad I don't have to pick and can enjoy both for now.


larrider - 4/2/2007 at 06:24 PM

Phil & Friends all the way.............
There my second favorite band.........
Never liked Ratdog, they just don't do it for me.


InTheRace - 4/2/2007 at 06:27 PM

For my first post here, I figured I'd jump in on this discussion. I am a huge Deadhead and, while the PLQ was great (beacause all five of them are awesome), I will have to go with RatDog all the way. They are on fire now and are tighter and rock harder now than ever. The PLQ isn't together anymore, so it's not a question of seeing them now. If I had to choose between a PLF show and a RatDog show this summer, I would go with the Dog. If you haven't heard RatDog in a while (or ever) do yourself a favor and download 3/8/07 at the Beacon from etree.


johnwott - 4/2/2007 at 06:29 PM

With Jimmy Herring I take Phil and Friends.


without Jimmy, I take Ratdog.


sixty8 - 4/2/2007 at 07:15 PM

quote:
when warren and jimmy h were with the band they were better than any GD configuration. i love phils band w/ the string player (i forgot his name) weirs bandhas been killer in recent years



Uh yeah, right, sure. Your opinion, certainly not mine. Given the fact that this is the Allman Bro's website and Warren is in the Allman Bro's, it doesn't surprise me.

Ok, in regards to the original question, Phil or Ratdog. Love 'um both, so it's hard to pick a favorite. Vocally, I think it goes to Ratdog. Instrumentally, I think Phil gets the nod. To me it's all about the setlist. I saw the tour when Ratdog opened up for Phil and the 1st night I enjoyed the Phil set the best, but the next night, I enjoyed Ratdog more. I'm glad I don't have to pick and can enjoy both for now.


If Warren is in the band P&F blow Ratdog away vocally.

Pete


bluesguy - 4/2/2007 at 07:17 PM

Phil & Friends


abbev - 4/2/2007 at 07:48 PM

quote:
quote:
when warren and jimmy h were with the band they were better than any GD configuration. i love phils band w/ the string player (i forgot his name) larry campbell . weirs band has been killer in recent years



Uh yeah, right, sure. Your opinion, certainly not mine. Given the fact that this is the Allman Bro's website and Warren is in the Allman Bro's, it doesn't surprise me.


obviously it's my opinion numbnuts that's why i'm logged in as abbev and you're someone else. i grew up on the GD and have seen them over 90 times going back to 1983. listen to roseland 4/30/00 plf. garcia is one of my all time favorites my opinion is stands that warren and jimmy h with phil, barracco and molo were musically better than the GD. they were more diverse in thei song selection and weren't afaid to explore musically as the deads repatoir of songs got stale. i also thought the welnick era pretty much blew. all that said this current lineup of the abb is the best band ever. i know it's an allman website.




[Edited on 4/2/2007 by abbev]

[Edited on 4/2/2007 by abbev]

[Edited on 4/2/2007 by abbev]


DanB - 4/2/2007 at 07:49 PM

I'll say Phil and Friends all day long. Thanks to Warren playing with them I got more into the Dead and really love Jerry's playing.


TennKev - 4/2/2007 at 08:32 PM

obviously it's my opinion numbnuts that's why i'm logged in as abbev and you're someone else. i grew up on the GD and have seen them over 90 times going back to 1983. listen to roseland 4/30/00 plf. garcia is one of my all time favorites my opinion is stands that warren and jimmy h with phil, barracco and molo were musically better than the GD. they were more diverse in thei song selection and weren't afaid to explore musically as the deads repatoir of songs got stale. i also thought the welnick era pretty much blew. all that said this current lineup of the abb is the best band ever. i know it's an allman website.

abbev:

Oooooooooh numbnuts. To be someone who has seen the GD since '83, you act like an immature 14yr. old w/ your name calling. You want a medal or a chest to pin it on since you've seen the GD 90 times. I think your wrong, too bad, get over yourself. You gonna call me some more names? Grow up keyboard gangsta!!!


jszfunk - 4/2/2007 at 09:08 PM

Phil and Friends or Ratdog ...? I would rather poke my eye out


abbev - 4/2/2007 at 10:03 PM

quote:


abbev:

Oooooooooh numbnuts. To be someone who has seen the GD since '83, you act like an immature 14yr. old w/ your name calling. You want a medal or a chest to pin it on since you've seen the GD 90 times. I think your wrong, too bad, get over yourself. You gonna call me some more names? Grow up keyboard gangsta!!!



no medal needed i was just making a point that i know my dead and i am a gangsta the gangsta of love. not planning ongrowing up either-thank you numbnuts

[Edited on 4/2/2007 by abbev]


slowhand6 - 4/2/2007 at 10:23 PM

I am hoping that this post right here represents the opinion of most members here- both of you please chill & keep it friendly. Even though it is Beacon season & that brings out all walks of life to these streets we like to think of ourselves as family & family-oriented in our dealings with one another. And no I don't mean the dysfunctional family that no one likes to be around.

Our Swedish friend posts these topics about Dead/Allmans subjects to explore opinions of well-informed & friendly participants.

I have done my share of emotional posting but it is fruitless. Trust me.

Peace y'all~!


Bird - 4/2/2007 at 10:45 PM

Different beasts. I love them both. If there were conflicting concerts and I HAD to pick one it would probably be P & F.


Dryder - 4/2/2007 at 11:41 PM

Phil & Friends all the way, Phil always puts a great band together. I have not seen Ratdog recently but in the past they did not jam very much and their music was more mainstream.


InTheRace - 4/3/2007 at 12:00 AM

quote:
Phil & Friends all the way, Phil always puts a great band together. I have not seen Ratdog recently but in the past they did not jam very much and their music was more mainstream.


RatDog is on fire now! They're tighter than they've ever been. Go on etree and download 3/8/07 at the Beacon. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


Eaglesgreen - 4/3/2007 at 12:24 AM

I'd take PLF over Ratdog but to be fair, I haven't seen Ratdog in a few years. However, I'll be happy to see Ratdog this Aug. at Camden (if rumors hold true) - will be a much nicer scene than the Tom Petty experiment last year. I would take Jerry and the GD over any of the "Dead" bands playing today because, for me, Jerry's playing brought a magical presence to most concerts I saw him at. I am amazed at the consistent tightness of PLF versions of GD songs but the "magic" just isn't quite there for me.


CowboyNeil - 4/3/2007 at 12:36 AM

I have seen the GD over 100 shows from 73 on and I feel Phil's Quintet with Warren and Herring took the music in a very interesting direction,much tighter jams than the GD for sure.Not that I did not love the GD,especially in the 70's,but I am confident to say Jerry would be pleased with what Phil and the boys did with the music.

With the above said however lets not forget who penned most of those songs,Hunter/Garcia

Just my opinion so cool your jets boys and girls


EasyMichael - 4/3/2007 at 12:52 AM

I haven't heard Ratdog recently, but based on what I did hear and see of them two or three years ago, I'd go with PL&F anyday. That's just my opinion, of course...


redspruce26 - 4/3/2007 at 01:41 AM

phill and friends,hands down.no matter who is in the band.


bl355 - 4/3/2007 at 01:53 AM

I have to say phill when he had warren but now they can't stand up to Ratdog. The last 3 ratdog show at the beacon where grate sound the way they played. They play very well as a band. Just like Phil did when he had Warren. Then any band with Warren is sick. I am trying to say that Warren makes the ABB but he helps a lot in my book. That is just my 2 cents.

-Brian


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/3/2007 at 06:01 AM

i think this turns out to a Grateful dead thread..not my fault.. LOL!!
Hands down..i think PHil and friends is freakin good..nice harmonies and killer playing..i like the warren/jimmy era best,but they where good after that era in 2005-07 too..some great stuff with TREY they also did..but Ratdog have become much tighter..and vocally they are very good now..Thanks to BOBBY..i know this is gonna be argued to death,but i think Bob Weir was at his peak 77-80...he sang very good back then..listen to the Barton hall gig etc etc..but in the 90ties and 200-2003 i want to impressed with him..but in later years his voice has more range and his sings clearer and more deep..ofcourse only my opnion..and folks,dont compare Phil and friends with The Grateful dead..

cheers..


CowboyNeil - 4/3/2007 at 12:56 PM

Don't compare? We don't need no stinking rules
And thats a BS rule, have you seen the bands live? Oh yea, I forgot this a GD thread! Would not want an honest discussion about the music, must follow rules, don't think the GD were about rules!


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/3/2007 at 01:00 PM

alright..i get your point fellow..its dont want no rules..they are just 2 different bands..i dont like to compare..thats all..everyone have their own taste..i like apples more than oranges..and i like codine more than valium..


Charlesinator - 4/3/2007 at 01:21 PM

quote:
no medal needed i was just making a point that i know my dead and i am a gangsta the gangsta of love. not planning ongrowing up either-thank you numbnuts



Love who you want to love, but grow up enough to use some capitalization and punctuation. Please! You too, Swede and Redspruce! Jeeeeezusss! Your opinions aren't taken seriously because they appear to be written by a second grader.

[Edited on 4/3/2007 by Charlesinator]


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/3/2007 at 01:25 PM

ok!!! try to write in swedish then?? i spell the best i can..but i will work harder..
is that ok?


CowboyNeil - 4/3/2007 at 01:31 PM

Spelling. we don't need no stinking spellin!

Two different bands playing GD music, perfect to compare. actually if you include RD 3 different bands. Phil stretches out the music, tightens up the jams and then you have Jimmy Herring and Warren filling in for Jerry, playing the music with respect but with there own take on the song, I really always appreciated that. Rob Barraco can sing Jerry's tunes beautifully, something The Dead never took advantage of in my opinion

Feel free to tell me to F*&^ off in Swedish, I would like to read how that sounds!

enugh? Charles if ya gonna beyatch about spelling. Enough said

[Edited on 4/3/2007 by CowboyNeil]


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/3/2007 at 01:38 PM

LOL!! i get your point..i think Phil and Friends are awesome..great singing and playing..but what did you think The Dead never took advantage of?? f..k off in swedish..ok..here it comes.. dra åt helvete!! or dra dit pepparn växer..

LMAO..


Charlesinator - 4/3/2007 at 01:42 PM

quote:
Spelling. we don't need no stinking spellin!



Could I send that to your class, Neil? Lol! Notice I said "capitalization" and "punctuation." There's nothing about spelling. I knew better.

quote:
and i like codine more than valium..


Allrighty then! We have established some common ground.


allmanfanfromsweden - 4/3/2007 at 01:45 PM

by the way.Codine is a fine song..The Quicksilver messenger service version from 66-67 is awesome..


EddieP - 4/3/2007 at 01:55 PM

...There is no reason why a cool discussion about 2 great bands should get heated to where an argument ensues. State your case, read other opinions, respect those opinions and move on - pretty simple really. Yes, folks will make outreageous remarks at times but I guess that comes with the territory.

MY opinion on Phil vs Ratdog:

I have always like what Phil has done with his bands quite a bit more but I do find Ratdog to be very good as well - and Bob and his guys have gotten better with age and experience. I like the fact the fact that we get to hear two slightly different interpretations of The Deads music and lots of different covers too. Variety is always better.

I think with Phils lineups and muscial style we get a lot more dynamics - there are more highs, more lows, lots of different time signatures and key changes - sometimes within the same song even. I Like that "Without a Net" approach. THere are always lots of solos too to go around. Phil also uses better players - they are all world-class and can do absolutely anything. Take a look at just some of the players Phil has used: Guitars: Trey and Steve Kimock, Warren and Jimmy Herring, Barry SLess and Larry Campbell and occasionally John Scofield. Keys: Page McConnel, Rob Baracco and Mookie Siegal. Drums: John Molo and Jeff Sipe. Pretty much an All-Star team of fine musicians. Ratdogs music is more like a straight line - less dynamics and more a full band sound approcah as opposed to lots of soloing. Its different than what Phil does, but it can be effective too. Both bands have a lot to sink your teeth into and thats a good thing...


CowboyNeil - 4/3/2007 at 04:10 PM

My students know I am a gramitical nightmare, a sociopathic maniac, and I have a few issues as well! However they do know who all these bands are as well as The ABB!!

love ya Charles, EddieP, and all who are around!


CowboyNeil - 4/3/2007 at 05:00 PM

The Dead never took advantage of of Barraco's vocals. Weir sang constantly


CanadianMule - 4/3/2007 at 06:04 PM

LMFAO - This isn't a Dead thread. And AFFS says that he doesn't like to compare bands. Too priceless for words. Everyday he starts a thread comparing bands.

I wrote a longer response but the site froze and booted me.

PLF - Does little for me. Great players but seemed liked "noodling" as opposed to jamming. I actually saw people sleep at the shows I caught.

Ratdog - Saw a bad show. Seemed like everyone agreed. Off-night? Maybe but the other shows I have been given did nothing for me either.

Prefer The Grateful Dead with Jerry I guess. By the way, besides the music and the players this has nothing to do with the Dead


filmmajor - 4/3/2007 at 07:08 PM

I've never seen PL&F but I've heard plenty of recordings. Seen Ratdog several times and my vote goes to Ratdog. I love Bobby and that band, they're so tight and do a great mix of rock, blues and jazz. Like someone else mentioned, Ratdog just has better setlists.


InTheRace - 4/3/2007 at 10:18 PM

quote:
I've never seen PL&F but I've heard plenty of recordings. Seen Ratdog several times and my vote goes to Ratdog. I love Bobby and that band, they're so tight and do a great mix of rock, blues and jazz. Like someone else mentioned, Ratdog just has better setlists.


I especially love how they recently started playing Milestones. That's such a great jazz tune for them to jam out on.


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